TR Turkish Air Force News & Discussion

Maximilien Robespierre

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Maybe tbey are not blind but have a different agenda than the Republic's? Maybe their agenda of covertly doing everything to block/delay Altay, F35, F16, or even not clearing up f110/f404 engine procurement is exactly what they are after? Maybe its us that are blind? We will see soon, world is heating up.
Talking like a mafia leader or screaming at others will not get us far in foreign policy.
 

Saithan

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Regardless we’ll see what happens soon enough. No need to get angry at each other over opinions.

Pity we don’t have a different engine for Hurjet.
 

TheInsider

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Mark my words Germany will come crawling on the Eurofighter issue. UK, İtaly and Spain are gearing up to kick out Germany from the Eurofighter consortium. There is news that the UK threatened Germany that the UK companies might be forced to produce German parts of Eurofighter if Germany continues to block Eurofighter sales. German defense minister today spoke interestingly. He said Germany should adopt a more liberal strategy in weapon sales. Turkiye wants 20+20 T4 Eurofighters might get second hand T1 from the UK on top of that(currently unlikely).

Eurofighters will be air superiority/intercepter fighters of the Turkish Air Force. After the introduction of Kaan they will be used similar to F-15X. Turkiye wants to acquire both F-16 block 70s and Eurofighters if possible but wants to buy at least one of them. Turkish Airforce wants to have ~300 fighters till the FOC of Kaan is achieved.
 
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boredaf

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Mark my words Germany will come crawling on the Eurofighter issue. UK, İtaly and Spain are gearing up to kick out Germany from the Eurofighter consortium. There is news that the UK threatened Germany that the UK companies might be forced to produce German parts of Eurofighter if Germany continues to block Eurofighter sales. German defense minister today spoke interestingly. He said Germany should adopt a more liberal strategy in weapon sales. Turkiye wants 20+20 T4 Eurofighters might get second hand T1 from the UK on top of that(currently unlikely).
I don't know if they'll come crawling back, but there is certainly pressure building there and what new defence minister has said can be interpreted as a shift in their position, or at least as a sign that wind is changing direction. And that pressure isn't just from UK, Italy and Spain, but also from within Germany as well because it concerns thousands of high paying jobs.

And, if we were to actually get T4 EFs, I wouldn't mind if we got some second hand 2 seaters from UK to use in training. Not that others would be too terrible mind you, even their oldest EF would be decades younger than our F4s.
 

Samba

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Ryder

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Good news are incoming.

"Germany should adopt a more “flexible” policy on arms exports, the country’s defense minister said on Thursday. "


About fcking time.

German Empire and Nazi Germany sold weapons without the bullshit sjw crap.

Maybe they should be more realpolitik like their Prussian forefathers.
 

GoatsMilk

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lol, just words. Doesn't mean shit. Don't count your eggs too soon.

The way i've always seen it is, they want to hinder, stagnant and delay Turkiye, but they cannot afford for Turkiye to go east. Because if we cannot buy fighter jets from the west, from so called NATO allies then you have to look to Russia, China and others. Once that happens it will set off a chain reaction where Turkiye is basically going to find herself forced to oppose the EU in many things. We won't be able to continue our policy of helping Ukraine as an example, we may even find ourselves having to sell all sorts of weapons to Russia because why would they sell us fighter jets if we won't sell them even tb2.

Once you start selling Russia whatever you have the west look to sanction and embargo Turkiye and it start a process of where they do everything to harm us and are forced to do everything to harm them. A lose, a lose situation. Good for Russia though.

Once EU starts embargoing and prejudicing us more, those millions of refugees are on their way to germany, makes no sense any more for Turkiye to host the 10 million. She wont be able to protect the 5 million in syria either anymore, since she cannot oppose russia anymore.

I suspect if Turkiye ever finds herself in a situation where she has to ally with Russia, eastern europe and the balkans is in big big trouble. EU project will cut in half.

I hope it doesnt happen, but if it does then f'k em.

By breaking our legs they are empowering Russia. Madness from the Europeans.
 

uçuyorum

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They will order more F-35.
They probably will still order more Eurofighters to maintain their fleet but not too many, and modernize existing. Europe is a bit divided and undecided for their future strategy of whether to happily rely on America and stay under its protective wings or decide to be a stronger entity of its own especially in aerospace and defence, though the war in Ukraine has definitely tipped the scale in making EU a subset of NATO.

There are still 2 ongoing 6th gen fighter projects but at this point what is the strategic significance of that? Or if they are struggling to support their eurofighter production lines and ordering F35s instead ( remember most smaller eu nations also have F35, not eurofighter) and refusing to export eurofighters to 3rd countries, how are they gonna maintain their 6th generation project? Will they buy like a tiny fleet of 6th gen for exorbitant prices and fail to maintain even those?
 

boredaf

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There are still 2 ongoing 6th gen fighter projects but at this point what is the strategic significance of that? Or if they are struggling to support their eurofighter production lines and ordering F35s instead ( remember most smaller eu nations also have F35, not eurofighter) and refusing to export eurofighters to 3rd countries, how are they gonna maintain their 6th generation project? Will they buy like a tiny fleet of 6th gen for exorbitant prices and fail to maintain even those?
Significance of that is, Eurofighter block is not on the same page, UK and Italy is on the one side while Spain and Germany is on the other. So there are already cracks in that group in that regard. And Germany refusing two costumers back to back doesn't help it either.

I highly doubt they are going to put orders large enough to keep Eurofighter production lines going, while also putting in hundreds of millions worth F-35 orders. At the very least German government doesn't like that idea, even their upgrades are lagging behind. And as things stand, not my opinion btw this is according to experts, those production lines will collapse by 2030.

That's highly skilled labour losing well paying jobs and they are not just going to sit on their asses between end of Eurofighter production and while waiting for whatever 6th gen fighter their countries choose. So there is a chance the loss will be even bigger than just economical, but also a skilled labour drain. Germany is fucking over themselves, UK, Spain and Italy in one pig-headed decision.
 
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Merzifonlu

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Will they buy like a tiny fleet of 6th gen for exorbitant prices and fail to maintain even those?
Even that won't happen. They will cancel the 6th Generation fighter projects one after another, and they will all line up to buy F35s, just like a cat with spilled milk.
 

Afif

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Even that won't happen. They will cancel the 6th Generation fighter projects one after another, and they will all line up to buy F35s, just like a cat with spilled milk.

FCAS may get canceled but Tempset definitely won't. Contracts for the development has been signed and are already in motion.
 
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boredaf

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Even that won't happen. They will cancel the 6th Generation fighter projects one after another, and they will all line up to buy F35s, just like a cat with spilled milk.
I honestly don't think that'll happen, at least 1 European program will survive because Trump scared the shit out of them. Before him, I don't think EU leaders ever questioned what would happen if US abandoned (or even turned on) them. But they now realize what we have known for decades, there are no guarantees when it comes to US. Trump could win 2024, and even if he lost, he has GOP by the balls because his influence almost completely won over their voters. So, from now on, whenever a Republican president wins an election, there is a chance that they'll screw over Europe just as bad as us, but its effects would be worse for them because we've had time to adapt.

That's one of the reasons why, imo, these EF sales are very important for them, they have to keep the lines open to keep the skilled labour from going to greener pastures until 6th gen production starts.
 

Spitfire9

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Even that won't happen. They will cancel the 6th Generation fighter projects one after another, and they will all line up to buy F35s, just like a cat with spilled milk.
In terms of GCAP, this programme is still being defined - what to build and partner responsibilities for funding, development and production. FCAS looks to be a programme dominated by and set up in France's favour.

Japan seems determined to pursue a 6G programme - with others or on its own. I don't think that France will give up on a fighter to follow on from Rafale so would likely go on to produce something on its own.
 

Spitfire9

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FCAS may get canceled but Tempset definitely won't. Contracts for the development has been signed and are already in motion.
Not for a finalised design. I think that funding for the last few years has been spent on investigating which technologies could be used in Tempest. A decision on whether to go ahead should be made 2024/2025.
 

Merzifonlu

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@boredaf

If Europeans had the kind of strategic independence you mentioned, Chancellor Merkel would not have been removed from power as a result of American imposition. What POTUS Trump meant when he said "spend more money on defense" was allocate more money for USA weapons. LOL

IMO He never meant independent EU weapons projects.

The USA, which has enough influence to remove Merkel from power, of course wants all EU countries to be F35 customers. And i am absolutely sure that she will impose this.
 

TsumugiShirogane

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By chance I spotted this. The defenseaerospace.com website is now based in France and tends to report negatively on British aviation matters but I think it gives an idea of why Scholz is unlikely change his position on EF supplies to Turkiye.




People in countries affected by the block can rage away as much as they like but I don't think it will change anything. I think the people who can change things (possibly) are the Germans in the next election.
Germany will not budge, and EF will slowly be on its way out as Europe arms itself mainly with F-35s.
No aircraft stands a chance against the F-35 in modern BVR warfare. That's why Europeans are ditching the obsolete Eurofighters. As for the 6th gen tenders, NGAD is likely already in the works and will be launched in 2030 with the adaptive cycle engine. GCAP development may take longer. Them maturing into being airworthy, we will see the 5th gen rule the skies for the next 15 years at least.
 
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