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Pakistan-India Conflict (2025)

Nilgiri

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Pakistanis probably thought if they send a lighter skinned women dressed like a westerner it will do wonders for their image. But truth be told if you send a idiot like this onto a Zionist affiliated media entity like sky news, its your own fault if you end up looking a fool.

I've seen shitty politicians, diplomates from AK party getting cooked the same way on western media. None of them made any effort to prepare for the obvious questions they would get. They go on these propaganda entities and then humilated the entire nation. Because at the end of the day all western media entities that cover the news are propaganda outlets first and foremost. Its not about informing the public its about misdirecting them towards geopolitical ambitions of the nations who own the media.

The real trick is to have your own media channels and only do interviews on there. That way the message you want to push 100% goes your way every time.

Yah well, if a country is ultra reliant on frequent IMF bailouts, there is only so much buffer/wherewithall it has for its own independent foreign policy, media ecosystem etc.

I mean the cringe western media touring is just part of larger thing thats baked in:


Pakistan is literally in the company of Israel now, both have nominated charlatan Trump for the nobel peace prize.

But Pakistan is in precarious economic spot that forces it this way (compared to say AIPAC etc that sets context for Israel-US) to basically kiss Trump's derriere, even if his admin develops the Indian relationship in a longer term way (again commensurate to India not needing bailouts and growing its economy and geopolitical significance at pace it does rather than dawdling and atrophying here).

It is relevant for Turkiye too, AKP economic mismanagement means more of what you describe in Turkish context too.

Imagine if Turks had solid Ataturk style leader right now (needed the 90s gulen subversion era to not happen essentially), the economy would be in good shape to begin with and you have more options in doing exactly what you describe from the inside out, rather than do the hat in hand shenanigans and hope it doesnt bite you later.
 

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Doval said India targeted 9 terror targets in Pakistan with precision and added that the entire operation took only 23 minutes​


It seems to have caused a bit of a meltdown in Pak
 

Sanchez

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Doval said India targeted 9 terror targets in Pakistan with precision and added that the entire operation took only 23 minutes​


It seems to have caused a bit of a meltdown in Pak
During the fighting, this is not a new development as I read the piece.
 

Bogeyman 

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Washington, D.C.: US President Donald Trump says, "We stopped a lot of wars. And these were serious, India and Pakistan, that was going on. Planes were being shot out of there. I think five jets were shot down, actually. These are two serious nuclear countries, and they were hitting each other. You know, it seems like a new form of warfare. You saw it recently when you looked at what we did in Iran, where we knocked out their nuclear capability, totally knocked out that... But India and Pakistan were going at it, and they were back and forth, and it was getting bigger and bigger, and we got it solved through trade. We said, you guys want to make a trade deal. We're not making a trade deal if you're going to be throwing around weapons, and maybe nuclear weapons, both very powerful nuclear states."
 

Jackdaws

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Washington, D.C.: US President Donald Trump says, "We stopped a lot of wars. And these were serious, India and Pakistan, that was going on. Planes were being shot out of there. I think five jets were shot down, actually. These are two serious nuclear countries, and they were hitting each other. You know, it seems like a new form of warfare. You saw it recently when you looked at what we did in Iran, where we knocked out their nuclear capability, totally knocked out that... But India and Pakistan were going at it, and they were back and forth, and it was getting bigger and bigger, and we got it solved through trade. We said, you guys want to make a trade deal. We're not making a trade deal if you're going to be throwing around weapons, and maybe nuclear weapons, both very powerful nuclear states."
So atleast 2 from India and atleast 3 from Pakistan ?
 

Jackdaws

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Congrats to Pak

The PAF C-130 Hercules, already known globally for its custom thematic paint jobs, won the “Best-Looking Static Aircraft” award. The aircraft featured a breathtaking special livery, celebrating Pakistan’s cultural diversity and military resilience.


The JF-17 Thunder Block III, Pakistan’s pride in indigenous fighter development, stole the show in the aerial category. Piloted by Squadron Leader Usman Khalid, the Thunder jet wowed thousands of spectators and earned the “Best Solo Jet Display” award.

Well - I am sure it looks pretty and the livery is great. Too bad, none of that really matters in combat and has nothing to do with this thread
 

Afif

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So atleast 2 from India and atleast 3 from Pakistan ?

Talking about areal kills. If the number is true, it is likely all of them are IAF jets. If Indians would have actually shot down anything, armed forces and GOI would have definitely come out with it loud and clear with atleast some evidences. Last time, IAF faked shooting down an F16 to save face. It is no more credible than Pak military.
 

Jackdaws

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Talking about areal kills. If the number is true, it is likely all of them are IAF jets. If Indians would have actually shot down anything, armed forces and GOI would have definitely come out with it loud and clear with atleast some evidences. Last time, IAF faked shooting down an F16 to save face. It is no more credible than Pak military.
They did. Spoke of “advanced jets” being shot down
 

Zapper

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Well, we haven't seen any evidence yet.🤷
You haven't seen any evidence of 5 Indian jets shot down either except for an alleged French engine
 
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Afif

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You haven't seen any evidence of an 5 Indian jets shot down either except for an alleged French engine

No, we have seen Wreckages of three jets on the indian sides. And then your leadership admitted, 'Loses (plural) are part of combat'.

Doesn't require further evidence after admission.
 

Nilgiri

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Three terrorists involved in the Pahalgam terror attack have been neutralized

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...foreign-terrorists-sources-2762404-2025-07-28Pahalgam terrorists killed in Srinagar encounter - India Today

I saw some of the preliminary (gore) footage and info regarding how they finally got tracked down (supposedly involving the re-activation of one of their "ultra" sat phone sets, that this time Indian forces were prepared for).

More information will be released soon officially. Stay tuned.
 

Afif

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How Pakistan shot down India's cutting-edge fighter using Chinese gear

By Saeed Shah and Shivam Patel

  • Intel failure on range of China-made PL-15 missile central to downing of India's Rafale jet-sources
  • Shootdown of Rafale had raised questions about effectiveness of Western hardware against Chinese alternatives
  • Pakistan claims successful electronic warfare assault though India disputes scale
  • Outcome of the battle ignites interest from other countries in purchasing Chinese fighter jets
ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI, August 2 (Reuters) - Just after midnight on May 7, the screen in the Pakistan Air Force's operations room lit up in red with the positions of dozens of active enemy planes across the border in India.
Air Chief Mshl. Zaheer Sidhu had been sleeping on a mattress just off that room for days in anticipation of an Indian assault.

New Delhi had blamed Islamabad for backing militants who carried out an attack the previous month in Indian Kashmir, which killed 26 civilians. Despite Islamabad denying any involvement, India had vowed a response, which came in the early hours of May 7 with air strikes on Pakistan.

Sidhu ordered Pakistan's prized Chinese-made J-10C jets to scramble. A senior Pakistani Air Force (PAF) official, who was present in the operations room, said Sidhu instructed his staff to target Rafales, a French-made fighter that is the jewel of India's fleet and had never been downed in battle.
"He wanted Rafales," said the official.
The hour-long fight, which took place in darkness, involved some 110 aircraft, experts estimate, making it the world's largest air battle in decades.

The J-10s shot down at least one Rafale, Reuters reported in May, citing U.S. officials. Its downing surprised many in the military community and raised questions about the effectiveness of Western military hardware against untested Chinese alternatives.
Shares of Dassault (AM.PA), opens new tab, which makes the Rafale, dipped after reports the fighter had been shot down. Indonesia, which has outstanding Rafale orders, has said it is now considering purchasing J-10s – a major boost to China’s efforts to sell the aircraft overseas.

But Reuters interviews with two Indian officials and three of their Pakistani counterparts found that the performance of the Rafale wasn't the key problem: Central to its downing was an Indian intelligence failure concerning the range of the China-made PL-15 missile fired by the J-10 fighter. China and Pakistan are the only countries to operate both J-10s, known as Vigorous Dragons, and PL-15s.

The faulty intelligence gave the Rafale pilots a false sense of confidence they were out of Pakistani firing distance, which they believed was only around 150 km, the Indian officials said, referring to the widely cited range of PL-15's export variant.

"We ambushed them," the PAF official said, adding that Islamabad conducted an electronic warfare assault on Delhi's systems in an attempt to confuse Indian pilots. Indian officials dispute the effectiveness of those efforts.
"The Indians were not expecting to be shot at," said Justin Bronk, air warfare expert at London's Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) think-tank. "And the PL-15 is clearly very capable at long range."

The PL-15 that hit the Rafale was fired from around 200km (124.27 mi) away, according to Pakistani officials, and even farther according to Indian officials. That would make it among the longest-range air-to-air strikes recorded.

India's defense and foreign ministries did not return requests for comment about the intelligence mistakes. Delhi hasn't acknowledged a Rafale being shot down, but France's air chief told reporters in June that he had seen evidence of the loss of that fighter and two other aircraft flown by India, including a Russian-made Sukhoi. A top Dassault executive also told French lawmakers that month that India had lost a Rafale in operations, though he didn't have specific details.
Pakistan's military referred to past comments by a spokesperson who said that its professional preparedness and resolve was more important than the weaponry it had deployed. China's defense ministry did not respond to Reuters' questions. Dassault and UAC, the manufacturer of the Sukhoi, also did not return requests for comment.

"SITUATIONAL AWARENESS"​

Reuters spoke to eight Pakistani and two Indian officials to piece together an account of the aerial battle, which marked the start of four days of fighting between the two nuclear-armed neighbors that caused alarm in Washington. The officials all spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss national security matters.
Not only did Islamabad have the element of surprise with its missiles' range, the Pakistani and Indian officials said, but it managed to more efficiently connect its military hardware to surveillance on the ground and in the air, providing it with a clearer picture of the battlefield. Such networks, known as "kill chains," have become a crucial element of modern warfare.
Four Pakistani officials said they created a "kill chain," or a multi-domain operation, by linking air, land and space sensors. The network included a Pakistani-developed system, Data Link 17, which connected Chinese military hardware with other equipment, including a Swedish-made surveillance plane, two Pakistani officials said.
The system allowed the J-10s flying closer to India to obtain radar feeds from the surveillance plane cruising further away, meaning the Chinese-made fighters could turn their radars off and fly undetected, according to experts. Pakistan's military did not respond to requests for comment on this point.
Delhi is trying to set up a similar network, the Indian officials said, adding that their process was more complicated because the country sourced aircraft from a wide range of exporters.
Retired U.K. Air Mshl. Greg Bagwell, now a fellow at RUSI, said the episode didn’t conclusively prove the superiority of either Chinese or Western air assets but it showed the importance of having the right information and using it.
“The winner in this was the side that had the best situational awareness,” said Bagwell.



Read more at the link.


@Sanchez @TR_123456 @TheInsider incredible if true that PL15 was fired from 200km away and still managed to bring down something as sophisticated as Rafale.
 
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Nilgiri

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After the May 7 air battle, India began targeting Pakistani military infrastructure and asserting its strength in the skies. Its Indian-made BrahMos supersonic cruise missile repeatedly sliced through Pakistan's air defenses, according to officials on both sides.

On May 10, India said it struck at least nine air bases and radar sites in Pakistan. It also hit a surveillance plane parked in a hangar in southern Pakistan, according to Indian and Pakistani officials. A ceasefire was agreed later that day, after U.S. officials held talks with both sides.

So basically a ton of blah blah trolling on this got undercut too. That BDA disparity stands.
 

Afif

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So basically a ton of blah blah trolling on this got undercut too. That BDA disparity stands.

It does, may 10th events aren't up for debate as we have imagery as evidence. Though what happened on May 7th is still relatively more dubious. The number of aircrafts shot down by PAF and the nature of engagement. More and more info coming out on this whether accurate or not. Plus, areal battle has lots of tech warfare and operational complexity involved into it. That's why I am more interested in this aspect of the overall conflict.

Not sure, what are you referring to by 'trolling' here. The article is detailing what they could gathered from various sources. Some info may or may not be accurate but Reuters is generally credible in maintaining neutrality.
 
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