TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[boredaf]

If it was for me i will buy some 220 j10c Fighters together with 240 f16 will bring Turkiye at top airforce. Aslo steath aircraft dont play so much role agasit 4+ aircrafts that country have too many aircrafts ,
- lets take a example Turkiye vs Greece 450 4+ gen vs 100 f35 . The war happened so Greece will bomb Turkiye with F35 steath.
But most Turkish industial military complex are in around Ankara 700km from sea of islands .
So greek sends 12 F35 steath to bomb the complex at kirikkale others to protect greek airspace and chances are 50/50 to success without spotting, There are so many radars and aircrafts around . Lets take that 12 greek F35 success to bomb kirikkale but they need to turn back alive
which will take at least 35 minutes to safe zone . So Turkiye with 450 fighter aircraft has at least 30 fighters anytime patroling around . At least 10 of them close to ankara so How the hell those 12 F35 will get back to grecce safe ? Patroling J10/f16 will be for 3 minutes there and will spot F35 . Putting other air force at costal area on alert and soon 12 F35 will find themself sorrounded by 50 4+ fighters just 5-100 km away of them ?! They all will shoot down and F35 dogfight is terrible.
So F35 is good just with weak countries launching Stand Off weapons from sea of island to Turkish Coast . That mission can aslo 4+ aircraft do .
Thats why i always say quantity over quality and ww2 proved it .

This is just embarrassing.

 

[Samba]

Arkadaşlar
Sadece Yunanistan Türkiye ile karşılaştırması yanlış. Şu anda Türkiye'nin çevrelerimiz karışık. Yapılan tüm alımlar gelecek 10 yıl içerisinde olması muhtemel savaş senaryosu olma ihtimaline hazırlıktır.
Misal İran mevcut bölgede çok gerilim üretiyor. İran su 35 teslim edilirse Azerbaycan'a saldırabilir. Son olaydaki Pakistan'a misilleme yapılabilir.
Ülke olarak olumsuz bir savaş senaryosuna hazırlık yapıyoruz.

Kızılelma ve Anka 3 Mius F16 uçaklarımızla savunulan Eralp+Cenk S+Barışkartalı radarlarından gelen verilerin birleştirildiği Radnet ile tümlesik hava resminin olduğu bir hava alanı giremezler. Siper, S400 hava savunma sistemlerimizde savunmaya katkı sağlayacak.
Aim 260 çift yönlü veri bağı ile ilerleyen yıllarda Abd'den talebimiz olabilir.900+ a2a füzelerine dahil edilebilir.
Gökhan füzelerimizde geleceğe yönelik üretiliyor bir güvendir.

I am pretty certian some of those who are complaining about the deal were complaining about the F35 or KAAN as well.

We are proceeding with the best option available here. And it not like KAAN will fly later today with full force. We don't even have an indigenous engine yet and we don't know what the future will bring.

Also, please leave the assumption that having a stronger air force will win you the war. If this was the case, Russia-Ukraine war would already be over with the definitive victory of Russia. Yet today the most reliable asset in the field is shells!

Türkiye and Greece has land and sea borders. A war between the two will have multifaceted battles. Besides all, I don't see any significant reason why these two will fight each other in the near to mid future.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

This is just embarrassing.

for who?

 

[BalkanTurk90]

I am pretty certian some of those who are complaining about the deal were complaining about the F35 or KAAN as well.

We are proceeding with the best option available here. And it not like KAAN will fly later today with full force. We don't even have an indigenous engine yet and we don't know what the future will bring.

Also, please leave the assumption that having a stronger air force will win you the war. If this was the case, Russia-Ukraine war would already be over with the definitive victory of Russia. Yet today the most reliable asset in the field is shells!

Türkiye and Greece has land and sea borders. A war between the two will have multifaceted battles. Besides all, I don't see any significant reason why these two will fight each other in the near to mid future.

What if Turkiye launch Nuclear weapon program and Grecce or others need to bomb it like they did with iraq , syria ?
And and compare Russia/ukraine war . Russia have under control large area of ukraine while ukraine have massive help from West .

 

[boredaf]

for who?

For you mate, that whole hypothetical is so outlandish that I hope no Greek ever reads that.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

For you mate, that whole hypothetical is so outlandish that I hope no Greek ever reads that.

Dont worry , but nothing is impossible

 

[FaTiHan]

Friends
It is wrong to compare Greece with Türkiye. Our environment in Turkey is complex right now. All purchases made are preparations for a possible war scenario in the next 10 years.
For example, Iran creates a lot of tension in the current region. If Su 35 is delivered, Iran may attack Azerbaijan. In the latest incident, there may be retaliation against Pakistan.
As a country, we are preparing for a negative war scenario.

They cannot enter the airport, which has an integrated weather picture with Radnet, which combines the data from the Eralp+Cenk S+BarışKartalı radars defended by our Kızılelma and Anka 3 Mius F16 aircraft. The trench will contribute to the defense of our S400 air defense systems.
With the Aim 260 two-way data connection, we may receive demand from the USA in the coming years. Can be incorporated into 900+ A2A missiles.
Our Gökhan missiles are produced for the future, and this is a confidence

 

[Ecderha]

I got image from Linkedin send by defenceturk net
Sorry but there are no english picture.
"Read" column is what Turkiye will get and "Blue" column is what Greece will get.
DefenceTurk net saying that this is one package which include both countries.
Also they saying that Turkiye will have to pay own, but for Greece it is not completely sure which part they will pay and which part usa tax payers will pay

 

[Iskander]

for who?

Obviously, the Greeks are meant. Who else?
Not F35!

 

[boredaf]

I got image from Linkedin send by defenceturk net
Sorry but there are no english picture.
"Read" column is what Turkiye will get and "Blue" column is what Greece will get.
DefenceTurk net saying that this is one package which include both countries.
Also they saying that Turkiye will have to pay own, but for Greece it is not completely sure which part they will pay and which part usa tax payers will pay

View attachment 65129

It isn't one package, deals are separate. And Greece is buying the F-35s, US is giving away their old stuff to them for free. There is nothing complicated about it. All of these were already in the official letters, and have been shared here, nothing new.

 

[Kartal1]

I got image from Linkedin send by defenceturk net
Sorry but there are no english picture.
"Read" column is what Turkiye will get and "Blue" column is what Greece will get.
DefenceTurk net saying that this is one package which include both countries.
Also they saying that Turkiye will have to pay own, but for Greece it is not completely sure which part they will pay and which part usa tax payers will pay

View attachment 65129

While I don't want off topic, I want to clarify something. This is a package encouraging Greece to continue their help for Ukraine. Also the Freedom Class is notorious for their severe problems and this is one of the main reasons for their decommissioning. The only thing that bothers me regarding their acquisitions are the F-35s and the additional air defence systems that will eventually come. Other than that "gule gule kullansinlar" as we say in Turkish (may they use them with happiness).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751585628964200938

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751515702773551108

 

[Huelague]

While I don't want off topic, I want to clarify something. This is a package encouraging Greece to continue their help for Ukraine. Also the Freedom Class is notorious for their severe problems and this is one of the main reasons for their decommissioning. The only thing that bothers me regarding their acquisitions are the F-35s and the additional air defence systems that will eventually come. Other than that "gule gule kullansinlar" as we say in Turkish (may they use them with happiness).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751585628964200938

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751515702773551108

Lets hope so.

 

[dBSPL]

The Czech Republic government signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) today making official its intent to procure 24 Lockheed Martin 5th Generation F-35 Lightning II aircraft. Through the U.S. government Foreign Military Sale, the Czech Air Force will receive its first aircraft in 2031, which will be in the latest advanced Block 4 configuration. The first of the 24 fighter jets should be delivered in 2031, with the rest by 2035. The American aircraft will replace the 14 JAS-39 Gripen fighter jets from Sweden that are currently used by the Czech army.

The Czechs will pay almost $5 billion to the U.S. for the aircraft, training of pilots, ammunition and other costs, Defense Minister Černochová previously said. The remaining money will be used to finance an upgrade of the Caslav air force base in central Czech Republic, fuel and training of staff, she said.

F-35 fighter jets as part of a deal worth about 150 billion Czech koruna ($6.6 billion), the biggest single purchase for the Czech military.

The Czech Republic Joins the F-35 Lightning II Global Team

The Czech Republic government signed a Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) today making official its intent to procure 24 F-35 aircraft.

www.f35.com

- Here we can get a more accurate approximation of the initial acquisition cost of 24 aircraft. While the amount Greece will pay for the bare planes is disclosed, other major costs are hidden.

- The other issue is that the Czech Republic, as the last LOA signatory, will start aircraft deliveries in 2031 and will be completed in 2035. Greece has not yet signed an LOA.

As a side note, the FOC target for KAAN is 2032-33

 

[Windchime]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751144312027426973

For instance, Hanwha used to promote SOM-J in conjunction with Roketsan for ROKAF procurement. Just think about all the lost opportunity the SOM-J had which is now being monopolized by JSM. I still don't think T-LORAMIDS was in anyway worth it. I'm glad that Turks are starting to realize that as well. I used to see very different reactions/opinions from Turks regarding the S-400.

D-3 is only for domestic use afaik. C-3 is its export variant.

You probably meant C8 right?

That‘s an optimistic outlook if everything goes fine according to plans.

The bleak reality right now is: TurAF has zero active fighter jet with AESA radar and BVR missiles. While Greece already operates 12 Rafale F3R with AESA and Meteor AAM and 10 F-16V with AESA and AMRAAM.

Murad AESA radar although installed on 1 Akinci and 1 Özgür F-16 (?) is still in test phase and not in serial production for the foreseeable future afaik.

Well said, which is also the reason the purchase of block 70 makes sense.

Guys, why are you all so eager to put all the eggs, not just eggs but golden eggs, in one basket? Ozgur is not a finished program. It's still going through development phase, and there's nothing out there which indicates when the block 30 aircraft which are meant to be upgraded to the Ozgur standard will be upgraded. Why are you guys so willing to jeopardize the urgent modernization of THK?

If anything, as @Cabatil_TR has noted, this is an interim solution, but an interim solution that THK actually needs. Also, equipment like IVEWS has not been exported to any other country and is the latest EW system with USAF as the first user. Most other block 70/72 users have opted for older AIDEWS (since there was no IVEWS back then) and the Greeks are using much older ASPIS variants. If anything, THK block 70s will have EW edge over Greek Vipers.

Buying that much AA missiles and bombs when you can produce your own … We couldn’t have asked the US to integrate our own munitions into these new Vipers ?

As an extension to what I've said above, it is obviously necessary to procure American ordnances, since that's all that the block 70 could use. Americans have never shared source code for their latest gen mission computers on any fighters, afaik, which is MMC 7000 in this case. It's very simple, really. Nothing's as complicated as some of you people are trying to make.

LM inspected Tusaş facilities last year and given that Tusaş is produced the most number of F-16s outside the US, there is a very good chance that we are going to build our own F-16s an will build them for others, which will turn into more funds for Tusaş. It'd be really shocking if we didn't, as it would harm LM as much as us, their production lines are pretty tied up and they might miss out on orders because of that.

As @dBSPL has pointed out, LM is planning to ramp up production in the Greenville plant. It was supposed to be ramped up sooner after the transition, but COVID delayed it. 40 aircrafts under license would make sense, but I suspect that it would be off the shelf. Also, Turkish facilities would be busy upgrading the pre-existing F-16s to block 70 standard.

EF was exclusively made by the British.

Most of it comes from Britain even the Prototypes were made in Britain.

It was pretty stupid of the UK to allow Germany have a hand in the EF. Now its costing you sales thanks to the Germans chucking a hissy fit.

No, EF is very definitely a 4 nation joint-program. BAe EAP very strongly resembles EF and its aerodynamic characteristics have carried over into the development of the actual fighter, but that was a TD, not a prototype. Every critical sub-components were joint-developed. You'll be surprised to know how much input Germany, Italy and Spain had in EF mission computer, Praetorian DASS, EJ200, etc. Only recently have the two userbase (UK and Italy, and Germany and Spain) have started to take different paths in terms of AESA development, but even still the Eurofighter LTE program is being run as a 4-nations joint program.

 

[Windchime]

Anyways, I think it's great for THK that the deal is going through. Also, stop with the "23 billion, it's a rip off" panic attack. The actual deal is very much going to be cheaper, with less items.

 

[Afif]

You probably meant C8 right?

That is right.

and there's nothing out there which indicates when the block 30 aircraft which are meant to be upgraded to the Ozgur standard will be upgraded.

SSB already singed a $2 billion contract last year with Aselsan and TAI for Ozgur ii project, that also includes block 40/50. with delivery set to begin from 2025-2027 for block 30s, and 2028-2030 for block 40/50.

 

[Windchime]

SSB already singed a $2 billion contract last year with Aselsan and TAI for Ozgur ii project, that also includes block 40/50. with delivery set to begin from 2025-2027 for block 30s, and 2028-2030 for block 40/50.

Still, that's just a projected date. Unless there are any detailed information regarding the test campaign of the Turkish mission computer and MURAD, or progress on
FEWS, we can't say for sure. Hopefully they are on track but nothing's out there for one to use as a reference to say that Ozgur will definitely be in THK inventory by this date.

 

[Bozan]

Anyways, I think it's great for THK that the deal is going through. Also, stop with the "23 billion, it's a rip off" panic attack. The actual deal is very much going to be cheaper, with less items.

No guarantees. Congress can block the deliveries at any time in the future if TR enters Syria or does something the USA doesn't like.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

We generally don't need any more F-35, the F-16 Özgur, F16 Block 70 and Hürjet are enough in then next 5-6 Years.
The hardware & software of Block 70 as an analysis will certainly help the KAAN, Hürjet, F-16 Özgur as version III to become even better in terms of Murad AESA radar 2.0, electronic defense, minor hardware & software upgrades.
If everything goes smoothly, the first 10 KAANs & 10 Hürjet will arrive as Block 0 in 2027/28. The actual series machines will then arrive in 2030 with Block 10.

 

[Saithan]

TBH, it hasn't come to "that" level yet, but one could argue they're halfway there.

I don’t understand why TuAF just doesn’t order 100 Hurjet, sign the deal and lock it. The configuration doesn’t fucking matter anymore.

If TuAF is forced to fight with paperfly they’ll fucking fight with it and make it work!