TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Strong AI]

Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) or equivalent Electronic Warfare (EW) systems

So this

F-16 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) | Northrop Grumman

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) is designed to give F-16 electronic warfare (EW) capabilities on a par with fifth-generation aircraft, significantly enhancing survivability for operations in contested and congested electromagnetic spectrum environments.

www.northropgrumman.com

vs. this?

Viper Shield™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-digital Electronic Warfare Suite

The Viper Shield all-digital electronic warfare (EW) suite is custom designed to be baseline on advanced F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft and maximize their survivability and mission success.

www.l3harris.com

How do we know that which one is better?

 

[Afif]

So this

F-16 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) | Northrop Grumman

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) is designed to give F-16 electronic warfare (EW) capabilities on a par with fifth-generation aircraft, significantly enhancing survivability for operations in contested and congested electromagnetic spectrum environments.

www.northropgrumman.com

vs. this?

Viper Shield™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-digital Electronic Warfare Suite

The Viper Shield all-digital electronic warfare (EW) suite is custom designed to be baseline on advanced F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft and maximize their survivability and mission success.

www.l3harris.com

How do we know that which one is better?

Well, the USAF has chosen the latter iirc.

 

[Strong AI]

ChatGPT:

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-Digital Electronic Warfare Suite are both advanced electronic warfare systems used to protect aircraft from various threats. While they serve similar purposes, there may be differences in their capabilities and features. Here's a comparison based on their known characteristics:

1. **Generation and Technology**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS is likely a newer generation system, potentially featuring more advanced technology compared to the AN/ALQ-254(V)1 VIPER SHIELD™. It may incorporate the latest advancements in electronic warfare technology, such as advanced signal processing and threat detection algorithms.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 is an all-digital electronic warfare suite, indicating that it utilizes digital signal processing techniques for threat detection and countermeasures. However, it may not be as advanced or integrated as the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

2. **Integration and Modularity**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS might offer greater integration with other avionics systems and sensors on the aircraft. It could be designed to seamlessly integrate with the aircraft's mission systems for enhanced situational awareness and coordinated response to threats.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 may be modular in design, allowing for easier integration into a variety of aircraft platforms. However, it might not offer the same level of integration and interoperability as the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

3. **Threat Detection and Jamming Capabilities**:
- Both systems are likely equipped with capabilities for detecting and jamming various types of threats, including radar-guided missiles, anti-aircraft artillery, and other electronic warfare systems.
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS may have more advanced threat detection algorithms and jamming techniques, potentially offering better performance against modern and emerging threats.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1, while also effective, might not have the same level of sophistication or adaptability as the newer AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

4. **Size, Weight, and Power (SWaP)**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS may benefit from advancements in miniaturization and power efficiency, resulting in a smaller size, lower weight, and reduced power consumption compared to older systems like the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 might be bulkier and require more power to operate, potentially limiting its suitability for certain aircraft platforms or missions where SWaP constraints are critical.

Overall, while both the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 are capable electronic warfare suites, the former likely represents a more advanced and integrated solution with superior performance and capabilities, while the latter might offer a more modular and adaptable option suitable for a wider range of aircraft platforms and mission requirements.

 

[Sanchez]

So this

F-16 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) | Northrop Grumman

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) is designed to give F-16 electronic warfare (EW) capabilities on a par with fifth-generation aircraft, significantly enhancing survivability for operations in contested and congested electromagnetic spectrum environments.

www.northropgrumman.com

vs. this?

Viper Shield™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-digital Electronic Warfare Suite

The Viper Shield all-digital electronic warfare (EW) suite is custom designed to be baseline on advanced F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft and maximize their survivability and mission success.

www.l3harris.com

How do we know that which one is better?

We can't know which is better, and they both probably have their own advantages.

Turkey is a user of L3 EW suites and pods for a long time and we know that they advertised Viper Shield for Turkey for some time:

“Five Nations Around the World Have Committed to Viper Shield on their Advanced F-16 Aircraft”

In 2021 the Turkish Government submitted a Letter of Request (LoR) to the U.S. Government, for the procurement of 40 new-build F-16V Block 70 fighter jets and 79 upgrade kits for the modernization of 29 Block 50+ and 50 Block 40M aircraft to the Block 70 level in the Turkish Air Force (TurAF)...

www.defenceturkey.com

To my knowledge US went ahead with IVEWS for modernizing their own F-16s and while we could get Viper Shield and despite our long time business with L3, we opted for IVEWS, the newer suite that US will also use. While new F-16V users "Bahrain, Morocco, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Taiwan" opted for viper Shield, I believe we are currently set to be the only operator of IVEWS alongside US.
Nevermind the last part:
"Turkey is one of two foreign air forces that have selected the IVEWS, and the programme officials are “in conversations with a number of countries right now” regarding potential procurement of the system, according to Conroy"

Turkey selects Northrop Grumman for F-16 EW upgrades

Turkey will upgrade its fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft with Northrop Grumman's latest electronic warfare (EW) suite, with plans to integrate the system into future...

www.janes.com

 

[Rooxbar]

Of course the media can affect opinions by omission. I avoid media that report selectively or place undue emphasis with the intent of shaping opinion.

What exactly is your complaint?

Mr Erdogan goes to Germany, reportedly in the hope that Germany will become agreeable to Turkiye buying Eurofighter.
Mr Erdogan makes an inflammatory speech in public putting Scholz in an awkward position.
Mr Erdogan leaves Germany without Germany saying it is agreeable to Turkiye buying Eurofighter.

Mission accomplished or Scholz alienated?

I think there's some merit in what you say, but it puts all the onus of the direction and level of bilateral relations on a single incident instigated by the Turkish side, which has happened in a vacuum and not in the context of the history of the relations that has shaped it until it has reached this point.

I for instance didn't see anything inflammatory about his speech and I didn't think Scholz was put in an awkward position, but I can see how one might think that if they assume and inherit all the presuppositions and biases which lead to the positions of the European press, as that was how it was reported in all of European media; seeing the concord in which the incident was reported, one might forget that the way it was reported is just one specific reading of the situation borne out of one specific outlook. Naturally I couldn't interpret his speech, esp. comparing it to the actions of the German state beforehand, as having that much weight in bilateral relations. German government constantly yaps about human rights in Turkey while sheltering, elevating and platforming terrorists. From where I look, I think Erdogan's remarks and attitude is very timid in the face of his counterpart's respective outlook. Sometimes you gotta let them know you stand with a considerable portion of the host country's population which also thinks Israel is committing genocide and you would like their government to take the humanitarian position in trying to stop the bloodshed.

Another assumption here is that Turkey is so desperate for Typhoons that it should be ready to self-censor or soften its stance and limit its speech in line with the liking and the narrative of a third country with regards to an unrelated issue. This is too much to ask.

There's also another implicit assumption that Turkey's attempts at buying Typhoons is just that: to buy fighter jets; this assumption would lead one to presume that, naturally, Turkey must do everything it can to acquire these fighters by appeasing Germany if they want these jets. This is also unwarranted and a simple reading of the situation. This is a world of shifting alliances and uncertain futures. In these situations you must gauge commitment, try to get a read on future plans, and put hard questions in front of seemingly united fronts.

 

[Khagan1923]

We can't know which is better, and they both probably have their own advantages.

Turkey is a user of L3 EW suites and pods for a long time and we know that they advertised Viper Shield for Turkey for some time:

“Five Nations Around the World Have Committed to Viper Shield on their Advanced F-16 Aircraft”

In 2021 the Turkish Government submitted a Letter of Request (LoR) to the U.S. Government, for the procurement of 40 new-build F-16V Block 70 fighter jets and 79 upgrade kits for the modernization of 29 Block 50+ and 50 Block 40M aircraft to the Block 70 level in the Turkish Air Force (TurAF)...

www.defenceturkey.com

To my knowledge US went ahead with IVEWS for modernizing their own F-16s and while we could get Viper Shield and despite our long time business with L3, we opted for IVEWS, the newer suite that US will also use. While new F-16V users "Bahrain, Morocco, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Taiwan" opted for viper Shield, I believe we are currently set to be the only operator of IVEWS alongside US.
Nevermind the last part:
"Turkey is one of two foreign air forces that have selected the IVEWS, and the programme officials are “in conversations with a number of countries right now” regarding potential procurement of the system, according to Conroy"

Turkey selects Northrop Grumman for F-16 EW upgrades

Turkey will upgrade its fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft with Northrop Grumman's latest electronic warfare (EW) suite, with plans to integrate the system into future...

www.janes.com

Gonna guess just by my gut IVEWS is the better product, both it and the APG-83 are made by Northrop Grumman possible giving it an edge performance wise. Also it probably has a reason why TurAF as a long time customer of L3 decided to go with the IVEWS.

Don't know about Viper Shield but thanks to IVEWS our modernized and newly built F-16 won't need to carry any ECM pods anymore.

Curiously just realized our neighbor hasn't chosen any EW suite , have they?

just looked up their F-16 upgrade package

upgrade and integration of the Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suite (ASPIS) I to ASPIS II on twenty-six (26) F-16s

so pretty much the majority of their upgraded F-16s are defenseless. Unless of course that second customer is them though I doubt it.

btw ASPIS II is from the early 2000s, so you can get a clue how effective it will be in the modern theatre.

 

[godel44]

Of course the media can affect opinions by omission. I avoid media that report selectively or place undue emphasis with the intent of shaping opinion.

What exactly is your complaint?

Mr Erdogan goes to Germany, reportedly in the hope that Germany will become agreeable to Turkiye buying Eurofighter.
Mr Erdogan makes an inflammatory speech in public putting Scholz in an awkward position.
Mr Erdogan leaves Germany without Germany saying it is agreeable to Turkiye buying Eurofighter.

Mission accomplished or Scholz alienated?

His purpose for going to Germany was not Eurofighter jets and nothing he said there was wrong. If the Germans can't bear hearing the truth maybe they should change their ways. And as a country who put an embargo on Turkey with the express of aim of supporting the PKK terrorist organization, Germany deserves to hear much worse.

Eurofighters are a nice to have but not necessary. It might even be better to direct the funds to Kaan at this point. It's certainly not worth it to appease the false sense of European superiority in the last few decades they still matter.

 

[UkroTurk]

ChatGPT:

The AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 All-Digital Electronic Warfare Suite are both advanced electronic warfare systems used to protect aircraft from various threats. While they serve similar purposes, there may be differences in their capabilities and features. Here's a comparison based on their known characteristics:

1. **Generation and Technology**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS is likely a newer generation system, potentially featuring more advanced technology compared to the AN/ALQ-254(V)1 VIPER SHIELD™. It may incorporate the latest advancements in electronic warfare technology, such as advanced signal processing and threat detection algorithms.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 is an all-digital electronic warfare suite, indicating that it utilizes digital signal processing techniques for threat detection and countermeasures. However, it may not be as advanced or integrated as the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

2. **Integration and Modularity**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS might offer greater integration with other avionics systems and sensors on the aircraft. It could be designed to seamlessly integrate with the aircraft's mission systems for enhanced situational awareness and coordinated response to threats.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 may be modular in design, allowing for easier integration into a variety of aircraft platforms. However, it might not offer the same level of integration and interoperability as the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

3. **Threat Detection and Jamming Capabilities**:
- Both systems are likely equipped with capabilities for detecting and jamming various types of threats, including radar-guided missiles, anti-aircraft artillery, and other electronic warfare systems.
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS may have more advanced threat detection algorithms and jamming techniques, potentially offering better performance against modern and emerging threats.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1, while also effective, might not have the same level of sophistication or adaptability as the newer AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS.

4. **Size, Weight, and Power (SWaP)**:
- The AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS may benefit from advancements in miniaturization and power efficiency, resulting in a smaller size, lower weight, and reduced power consumption compared to older systems like the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1.
- The VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 might be bulkier and require more power to operate, potentially limiting its suitability for certain aircraft platforms or missions where SWaP constraints are critical.

Overall, while both the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 are capable electronic warfare suites, the former likely represents a more advanced and integrated solution with superior performance and capabilities, while the latter might offer a more modular and adaptable option suitable for a wider range of aircraft platforms and mission requirements.

Those systems make RF guided A2A Missiles and SAMs blind, don't they? İ don't think they could jam modern ground radars however jamming active seeker of missiles is quite enough.

 

[Strong AI]

Those systems make RF guided A2A Missiles and SAMs blind, don't they? İ don't think they could jam modern ground radars however jamming active seeker of missiles is quite enough.

ChatGPT:

Yes, you're correct. Electronic warfare systems like the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 are primarily designed to disrupt and neutralize radar-guided threats, including air-to-air (A2A) missiles and surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). These systems employ various techniques, including jamming, to interfere with the radar signals used by these missiles to track and target aircraft.

While they may not directly jam all types of ground-based radars, their ability to jam the active seeker of missiles can indeed be highly effective in countering threats from radar-guided missiles. By disrupting the guidance systems of these missiles, electronic warfare systems can significantly reduce their effectiveness and increase the survivability of aircraft in hostile environments.

 

[UkroTurk]

ChatGPT:

Yes, you're correct. Electronic warfare systems like the AN/ALQ-257 IVEWS and the VIPER SHIELD™ AN/ALQ-254(V)1 are primarily designed to disrupt and neutralize radar-guided threats, including air-to-air (A2A) missiles and surface-to-air missiles (SAMs). These systems employ various techniques, including jamming, to interfere with the radar signals used by these missiles to track and target aircraft.

While they may not directly jam all types of ground-based radars, their ability to jam the active seeker of missiles can indeed be highly effective in countering threats from radar-guided missiles. By disrupting the guidance systems of these missiles, electronic warfare systems can significantly reduce their effectiveness and increase the survivability of aircraft in hostile environments.

So IIR guided missiles seem to be more lethal and popular soon.

We urge stealth KAAN and KE and ANKA 4 with Bozdoğan and SUNGURs.

 

[Yasar_TR]

We urge stealth KAAN and KE and ANKA 4 with Bozdoğan and SUNGURs.

Every now and then our members are mentioning Anka-4. We know of Anka-3 being a flying wing.
Can you or anyone else enlighten us what Anka-4 is please?

 

[Fatman17]

Turkey will upgrade its fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft with Northrop Grumman's latest electronic warfare (EW) suite, with plans to integrate the system into future blocks of the venerable jet fighter, Janes has learnt.

Ankara's decision marks the first major Foreign Military Sales of the AN/ALQ-257 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS) for the company, said James Conroy, vice-president of navigation, targeting and survivability at Northrop Grumman.

“We will be delivering over 150 [EW] systems to Turkey for their F-16s, their new aircraft as well as modernising their existing F-16 [fleet],” Conroy said during a 30 January interview. Turkey is one of two foreign air forces that have selected the IVEWS, and the programme officials are “in conversations with a number of countries right now” regarding potential procurement of the system, according to Conroy.

 

[UkroTurk]

Every now and then our members are mentioning Anka-4. We know of Anka-3 being a flying wing.
Can you or anyone else enlighten us what Anka-4 is please?

No idea, İ also wonder if there is ANKA-4. İt happened Urban Legend

 

[Nutuk]

It's more than urban legend, Temel Kotil said last year they were working on ANKA-4.

 

[Kartal1]

Eurofighter statement from BAE Systems

BAE Systems Spokesperson made the following statements to Defense Turk;

“We continue to pursue a number of export opportunities for Typhoon in Europe and beyond. We support the UK Government's discussions with Turkey on shared defense and security priorities, including its interest in Typhoon."

"The Typhoon remains one of the world's most successful military combat aircraft, providing critical air defense capability, including support to NATO operations."

BAE Systems exhibited the next generation cockpit of the Eurofighter Typhoon at the World Defense Show in Saudi Arabia.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1755942298012000437

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't think they're working on Anka 4, and if they are, it's at a very early concept stage in terms of gathering ideas and feedback from the current Anka 3.
But to already have the preliminary design here, and how much payload it can carry etc. I doubt it.

 

[Windchime]

Curiously just realized our neighbor hasn't chosen any EW suite , have they?

just looked up their F-16 upgrade package

so pretty much the majority of their upgraded F-16s are defenseless. Unless of course that second customer is them though I doubt it.

btw ASPIS II is from the early 2000s, so you can get a clue how effective it will be in the modern theatre.

ASPIS-1 and 2 are pretty much the Greek equivalent of SPEWS-1 and 2. Obviously, it's not as new as Viper Shield or IVEWS.

Though you should also know that there are various drop in upgrade kits available for pre-existing legacy EW suite offered by its OEMs (eg: digitalisation). Most late 90s~early 2000s EW suite already had a very modern set of EW operating modes built in them, and most built-in Falcon EW suites (bar some exceptions like Falcon Edge) operate in similar bandwidth. Greece (and Raytheon) had various problems regarding the devlopment and installation of ASPIS-2 throughout the entirety of program's history, but more recently, it seems like they've sorted most, if not all of these problems out.

So it is very clear that the THK F-16Vs upgraded with IVEWS will have an upper hand against Helenic F-16Vs, though in the same time, calling them "defenseless" is a stretch.

 

[Sanchez]

Mission never ends.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756275558814536146

 

[TheInsider]

IVEWS has 2 mostly underrated advantages.
1) It is an integrated system and the first of its kind for F-16 which means pylon number 5 allocated for ECM payload will be freed and we can load a 300-gallon fuel tank. For comparison, CFT carries 450 gallons of fuel. Our F-16s will reach even further.
2) IVEWS works in complete harmony with the APG-83 SABR radar. This is a whole different level than other Viper EW systems. IVEWS brings a lot of 5th-generation capability to the Viper platform.

 

[Afif]

IVEWS has 2 mostly underrated advantages.
1) It is an integrated system and the first of its kind for F-16 which means pylon number 5 allocated for ECM payload will be freed and we can load a 300-gallon fuel tank. For comparison, CFT carries 450 gallons of fuel. Our F-16s will reach even further.
2) IVEWS works in complete harmony with the APG-83 SABR radar. This is a whole different level than other Viper EW systems. IVEWS brings a lot of 5th-generation capability to the Viper platform.

Not only IVEWS, but L3harris's AN/ALQ-254 (V1) has both of those advantages.

It is a built in system.
It is in complete hermony with APG-83.