TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[YeşilVatan]

We're shafted again. I'm on the verge of posting hardcore Selahattin Özdemir songs. This is to much suffering. I didn't love a prostitute to grieve tihs much, I just love my country.

Let me tell you what will happen: Americans will go back on their words. Again. Because they think we are subhumans and promises made to Turks are esentially optional. Of three things we actually need from Americans, we will not get even one. Not in the timeframe where it matters.

We will not get upgrade kits. But this was actually the quickest way of upgrading our airforce. It makes sense on why they don't give us that: Americans are essentially playing a delaying game. For what? I have some scary theories about that.

We will not get new planes before it is too late. Maybe after 2032. That's why they just take us on a trip through the swamp of DC bureucracy. Delaying game.

We will not get F-35s. It's written into US law. No one in US can send F-35s without spending serious political capital or complete Turkish capitulation on god knows what. They just hold it as an option like a $10 whore soliciting from a 80 IQ village idiot who she'll never sleep with. Delaying game.

I wish I am wrong. But I'm not.

Edit: This is my opinion which I desperately want to be proven wrong about.

 

[Yasar_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861496066333344023

Another source about the same F35 news.
More like the news about the f16 V70 kits and the 40 new V70s.

Please give source when making important statements even if they are logically derived statements. Otherwise state that it is your opinion.

 

[Sanchez]

(That leaves the question that why getting the new F16V's at all though? Maybe to using American weapons or just part of an agreement to getting approval for our own modernization?)

Interesting development nevertheless.

Air force needs more aircraft. This is the lowest number of fighters they've had for the last 50 or 60 years.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Unfortunately, big strings are attached to the Eurofighter, F-16, and possible F-35 deal...
The first one is the NATO bid of South Cyprus.
The second one is the Sea of Islands and East Med issues (as a bonus, the rights of the Greek Patriarchate will be increased)
The third one is the PKK terror state.

Please add source. These are logical reasons. But you must provide source. Or make sure it is your personal opinions.

 

[Fairon]

Air force needs more aircraft. This is the lowest number of fighters they've had for the last 50 or 60 years.

Correct but we could've increased the F35 order instead.

Well, I seem to be combined news with F-16 sale and F35 possibility and wrote under the assumption that we are getting F35's. Considering it is just a posibility, not cancelling the F16V procurement without until we now we can get F35 made sense. Orders still may converted to F35's if we get an approval for it.(Or not. Depends how much Air Force wants to be rely on F35's. )

 

[uçuyorum]

Unfortunately, big strings are attached to the Eurofighter, F-16, and possible F-35 deal...
The first one is the NATO bid of South Cyprus.
The second one is the Sea of Islands and East Med issues (as a bonus, the rights of the Greek Patriarchate will be increased)
The third one is the PKK terror state.

What will the planes protect then?

 

[Sanchez]

Correct but we could've increased the F35 order instead.

Well, I seem to be combined news with F-16 sale and F35 possibility and wrote under the assumption that we are getting F35's. Considering it is just a posibility, not cancelling the F16V procurement without until we now we can get F35 made sense. Orders still may converted to F35's if we get an approval for it.(Or not. Depends how much Air Force wants to be rely on F35's. )

MoD's statements regarding the F-35s are in the air. There's nothing happening there for now. This is solely about the F-16s. F-16s that look like will be built in US, not Turkey.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

The F-35 makes sense to buy, we don't have the possibility to develop a extra Aircraft for the navy in the next 10-15 years.
The TCG Anadolu is running virtually empty, and TCG Trakya and TCG Mugem are also planned. The Hürjet is not competitive as the only manned combat aircraft for the navy, it is inadequate compared to Rafaele & Co even if you also have drones like Kizilelma, Anka 3 and TB3.

 

[2033]

Our air force is in deep weakness. We have become an unpopular member of NATO as a result of the great stupidity in foreign policy in the last 10 years. At times we have been close to Russia and have pursued a hypocritical policy. Russia has nothing to give us except natural gas. We are paying the price of unnecessary rapprochement with Russia by weakening our air force.

I think the US will prolong the F-35 process and stall us instead of saying "no".

I am sure none of the Nato leaders trust Erdogan in any way. I don't think it is possible to restore trust.

 

[what]

And here we go again with the F35 discussions
If we get the chance, we should still buy 50-60 F35. At least enough F35B for our ACC and then some.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Our air force is in deep weakness. We have become an unpopular member of NATO as a result of the great stupidity in foreign policy in the last 10 years. At times we have been close to Russia and have pursued a hypocritical policy. Russia has nothing to give us except natural gas. We are paying the price of unnecessary rapprochement with Russia by weakening our air force.

I think the US will prolong the F-35 process and stall us instead of saying "no".

I am sure none of the Nato leaders trust Erdogan in any way. I don't think it is possible to restore trust.

Turkey has been screwed countless times in the past by the USA, Greece and the Armenia lobby in the USA, even without Erdogan.
At that time Turkey had to accept a lot of things just like that, now it is different we are developing our own weapon systems, even if none of these countries deliver fighter planes or impose conditions on Turkey that we do not accept.
Sooner or later we will have our fighter planes & drones.
Quite honestly, Turkey has been flying with outdated systems for 10 years, nothing happened then and nothing will happen today or in the next 5-10 years.
Turkey is massively building up the navy with ships, air defense systems and drones to close this gap for the next 5-10 years so that no one gets a stupid idea.

 

[boredaf]

This is what the minister said about modernisations:

"TAI facilities are capable of carrying out the modernization in question themselves, so we handed over the modernization task to TAI."

So, either we made a deal to extend the Özgür project to remaining F16s or he is trying to save face for ditching the modernisation.

 

[what]

Take it with a big pinch of salt, but there are rumours supporting Gülers statements. Even before he made them:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861474526514545062

 

[hugh]

Take it with a big pinch of salt, but there are rumours supporting Gülers statements. Even before he made them:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1861474526514545062

there's no source for the claims in the tweets

 

[YeşilVatan]

I'd like to remind that Americans has to go through legislative process and change the law before delivering F-35s to TAF. It is against the law for them to deliver F-35s.

 

[what]

Yes its a twitter rumour without any meat on the bone.

According to Güler on F35:
We have six of our aircraft there. The Americans, upon seeing that we have developed and flown KAAN (Turkey’s indigenous fighter jet), have changed their perspective on the F-35. They are now expressing that they could provide F-35s. However, there has been no progress on this matter. We continue to insist on reinstating our production share in the program and have also communicated our request to acquire 40 F-35 aircraft

On the f16 deal:

With this, we were going to acquire 40 F-16 Block 70 Viper aircraft and modernize 79 others, but we have abandoned this plan. This is because our TUSAŞ facilities are now capable of handling the F-16 modernization process independently. We will instead procure 40 aircraft along with specialized munitions, with the total cost amounting to approximately 6.5 to 7 billion dollars

SON DAKİKA HABER | Bakan Güler'den F-35 açıklaması: KAAN'ı yaptığımızı görünce düşünceleri değişti - En Son Haberler | Video

Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Son dakika haberler... Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, F -35te 6 tane uçağımız var orada. Şimdi KAANı yaptığımızı ...

www.cnnturk.com

So new deal size 7bln Dollars and maybe confirmation that the upgrades will be handled in Turkey at TAI.

 

[boredaf]

I'd like to remind that Americans has to go through legislative process and change the law before delivering F-35s to TAF. It is against the law for them to deliver F-35s.

This is where the new administration might be helpful for us, as Republicans control both the House and the Senate now. We just have to bribe, I'm sorry, lobby Trump to give the order.

 

[Sanchez]

So new deal size 7bln Dollars and maybe confirmation that the upgrades will be handled in Turkey at TAI.

If we take his words at face value, he says we'll only get 40 new built F-16Vs. We can't convert our F-16s to Vipers without Viper mod kits, which he says we are not getting from US. That must mean all the Peace Onyx 1, 2, 3 F-16s are going through Özgür, excluding the 29 Block 50+. Those aircraft will be Özgürs, not Vipers.

-
To add, American law is clear. There is no F-35s with S-400s still in Turkey.

 

[hugh]

This is where the new administration might be helpful for us, as Republicans control both the House and the Senate now. We just have to bribe, I'm sorry, lobby Trump to give the order.

good luck bribing them without taking the jews on your side. and the bitter reality is, even if we have solid contracts approved by the senate, the deliveries will be spread out on many years that they could, at any point, coerce us to "behave". it will be the rope tied around our necks.

F35 thing made sense 4-5 years ago but it's too late for us to jump on that wagon. We should be grateful if we can get F110s for our KAANs.

 

[what]

Would we drop the Eurofighter deal if the F35 window opens or would we buy them on top of the EF?