F-35 is dangerous if the US wants your fighters to stay on the ground they will stay on the ground. At the moment there is little risk for Turkish F-16s in that regard.
Can you give us concrete proof that what you claim can be done by the push of a button?F-35 is dangerous if the US wants your fighters to stay on the ground they will stay on the ground. At the moment there is little risk for Turkish F-16s in that regard.
I meant both.Can you give us concrete proof that what you claim can be done by the push of a button?
Or is it just a generalisation that if US wants to ground any county’s F35 fighters, they can do it by stopping spares etc?
Because that statement is a bit vague!
Exactly. As such a device’s presence can’t be known, we can only guess and use conjecture. Even if there is, they will never admit it’s presence and we will never know.I meant both.
Sure I can give you some proof as if concrete proof for a top-secret kill switch can ever be found on the internet.
Pentagon Wants Kill Switch for Planes
The Pentagon’s non-lethal weapons division is looking for technologies that could "disable" aircraft, before they can take off from a runway — or block the planes from flying over a given city of stretch of land. In a request for proposals, issued earlier this week, the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons...www.wired.com
It is a valid argument in the sense that these countries have made a conscious choice (like we had until we were kicked out - we were those countries once) to purchase these planes knowing exactly how much they are technically going to be dependent on US.
US supporting PYD and clashing with us in political terms is not related to whether we should buy these planes or not. US has an agenda that it is following. We will resist that agenda whenever it is against our interests. What startled US was that, a Turkey that was subservient to all their whims and requests before, now have said “NO” for a second time since their troops were not allowed to use Turkish soil in first gulf war.
But that same US has allowed their industry to sell very critical machinery that will help liberate our defence industry like @neosinan had posted:
If we stick with the logic that “US is against us in Syria then US is our enemy” , we should not buy anything from them , including 40 new F16Vs and 80 modernisation kits.
We will never physically fight with US. So just use the status quo to our advantage as much as we can.
We know very well that if we buy those 40 new F16Vs we will be dependent on US for them. We will not be able to do what ever we want with them. But we are willing to put up with that, Why? Because we think we may manage the dependency issue to a degree since the lack of those planes will mean more.
We have a saying in Turkish “until you cross the bridge you have to call the bear a friend to let you through”
Just temporary but MIUS and TFX will be in less then 6-7 years hence F-35s will have a short window as Turkeys best fighters by default.. Strange indeed but don't think Turkey is complaining by being awash with stealthJust compare the F-35 to the F-16 which also has a ''kill switch'' but still is the backbone of our Air Force.
Like @Yasar abi wrote,we need at least two squadrons of the F-35.
That's not going to happen. You may expect the F16 deal to get through but not without ensuring Turkey takes steps to mess up our relations with Russia.If Russia invades Ukraine I expect our first 6 F-35s to be given immediately.
Sorry to say that but it is Naive thinking.If Russia invades Ukraine I expect our first 6 F-35s to be given immediately.
Lol, you think we are dumb enough to enter a war for 6 aircraft?usa need "cannon fodder" at moment and they/Nato expect this to be Turkiye.
Well the US can continue to play that tune while Russia annexes half of the world.You forget usa applied embargo and this will not change becuase russia will invade Ukraine.
Which relation? We are fighting Russian in Azerbaijan, Syria, Libya, Ukraine and some other countries. No other NATO member do this.That's not going to happen. You may expect the F16 deal to get through but not without ensuring Turkey takes steps to mess up our relations with Russia.
Production of 128 F-16 block 70/72 orders from Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco, Bulgaria and Taiwan was expected to be completed by 2026. However, Lockheed Martin announced that the current program was delayed for 1 more year due to Covid-19.
COVID supply chain woes add yearlong delay to first F-16 rollout at new facility - Breaking Defense
The first F-16 produced in Greenville, S.C., won't be ready to begin flying until late 2022, said Greg Ulmer, Lockheed's vice president of aeronautics.breakingdefense.com
Turkey's orders for the F-16V will not start production before 2027. Meanwhile, it seems likely that the COVID-19 outbreak will further occupy the production line. TAI has no place to produce new F-16s. The facilities are not sufficient. So don't get your hopes up, folks.
im pretty sure US Congress are taking the piss. :/Biden administration approves $4.2B F-16 sale to Jordan
The U.S. also approved the sale of spare parts to the United Arab Emirates for air defense systems, a few weeks after UAE used the THAAD system in battle for the first time.www.defensenews.com
*Production of 144 F-16s*
And Philippines might follow after Congress Approval.
Philippines gets approval for F-16, missile buy worth over $2 billion
The Philippines could also buy Raytheon Technologies AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder air-to-air missiles and Boeing AGM-84L-1 Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles.www.defensenews.com
**Production of 156 F-16s**
YES. But with all this in mind, for the prospective order of Turkish F16s, doesn’t that make it more feasible for LM to let TAI produce the planes under license, and then sell them back to TAF via FMS system, getting more profit quicker?It gets even better the Delay which has been announced as 1 Year increased to 2 Years.
Due to Supply-Chain issues. According to US Embassy in Bulgaria.
The delivery of the eight F-16 fighters to the Bulgarian army will be delayed by two years, Prime Minister Kiril Petkov announced on 12 February.
The F-16 production program is delayed due to supply chain disruptions caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. This unfavourable delay will affect all countries that are currently participating in this program,” the embassy said in a statement.
The United States says it remains committed to supporting the modernization of the Bulgarian army.
The initial plan was for the first planes to arrive in Bulgaria in 2023 and the last ones in 2024. They cost €1.1 billion, which were prepaid. Bulgaria plans to buy eight more F 16 fighter jets from the US.
F-16 delivery for the Bulgarian army delayed by two years
www.euractiv.com
So for Bulgaria that means:
2019 > Agreement
2023 > Original Delivery start
2025 > Expected Delivery start
And keep in mind at that time Bulgaria was the 3rd Costumer after Bahrain (16) and Slovakia (14) = 30 Aircraft in queue.
Now we are talking about a queue of at least 144 F-16s.
YES. But with all this in mind, for the prospective order of Turkish F16s, doesn’t that make it more feasible for LM to let TAI produce the planes under license, and then sell them back to TAF via FMS system, getting more profit quicker?
The delays occurring in LM‘s F16 production line; Are they due to parts not being produced fast enough or is it because they do not have the manpower/production space for F16 orders? If it is the latter TAI production line - even if it is at a slow speed - will still be a better choice.I Guess so but certain issues remain.
Primarily LM isn't really transparent about the issue which is weird since the same company produces ca. 150 F-35s a year without problems.
Which leads me to believe that the problems might be significant and that could lead to questioning of quality in regards of the Final Product.
> TAI is likely not going to produce every part and since the Supply chain is disrupted this would stop TAI from Assembly.
> Does TAI even have enough Space or enough Staff to manage such an undertaking. Last time I checked they were hiring like crazy just to finish current projects
> F-16C/D Block 30 Structural Improvement Project is a rather smaller undertaking in which certain parts get exchanged with parts delivered by LM in order to extend the life of the Plane. Check the Dates
"The F-16 Block 30 Structural Improvement Project was initiated with the contract signed between the SSB and the Main Contractor TAI on 10 August 2015 in order to increase the fuselage life of 35 F-16C/D Block 30 Aircraft in HvKK inventory from 8,000 hours to 12,000 hours."
SSB announced on 25 July 2020 that the structural improvement of the first F-16 Block-30 Aircraft was completed and delivered to the Air Force Command
F-16C/D Blok 30 Yapısal İyileştirme Projesinde İlk Teslimat Gecikmeli de Olsa Yapıldı!
www.defenceturkey.com
5 Years of Contracting and Testing for a "Simple" Exchange of Replacement Parts I don't want to imagine how long a bigger assembly would take.
I am very pessimistic.