TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[uçuyorum]

IMO, 200+ KAAN and 80 Eurofighter+Viper is enough investment in TurAF (until it moves toward 6th gen platforms in 25 years or so.) As there will be hundreds of loyal wingman alongside these manned platforms. Which I don't think were given enough attention in 2000s and early 2010s. Back then the Concept of 5th gen areal warfare with the MUM-T at the center of it wasn't widely accepted. Even for USAF.

Technically Türkiye can still procure more KAAN. But in the end it is about overall trade-off and balancing between Air, land, Naval and space capabilities. And i think that money is better invested elsewhere with more return potential for strategic effect. Like an SSN program. (Which definitely doesn't get enough attention here among Turkish industry enthusiasts.)

200 KAAN + 80 EF + Viper is an outrageous investment. You are looking at 100 billion+ for these

 

[IC3M@N FX]

It won't be 80 Eurofighters or 200 TAI KAAN. What money are you going to use to finance that...?

In the end it will be 80-120 TAI KAAN, and 40-60 Eurofighter, then another 50-60 Hürjet Marine version and the own + new F-16 together it would be 300-310 fighter jets.

We would then be close to 450-500 manned combat aircraft, which is enough for Turkey because at least 150-250 different classes of drones will also be added by 2035.
That is more than enough to defend the country and its properties and bases abroad.
The drones can be scaled up even further at low cost by a further +100-150 drones if required.

However, Turkey needs a total of 2 LHDs like the TCG Anadolu and a total of 8-10 destroyers.
The LHD's must operate permanently in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean together with 4 destroyers (2 per LHD) as a deterrent, and 2 real aircraft carriers like MUGEM which is there for foreign and domestic operations.
That is much more important 700-800 manned combat aircraft.

 

[Huelague]

I think with the upcoming government change in Germany, and with most likely the CDU running the show, they will be lifting most if not all restrictions on weapons exports.

No.

 

[Huelague]

It won't be 80 Eurofighters or 200 TAI KAAN. What money are you going to use to finance that...?

In the end it will be 80-120 TAI KAAN, and 40-60 Eurofighter, then another 50-60 Hürjet Marine version and the own + new F-16 together it would be 300-310 fighter jets.

We would then be close to 450-500 manned combat aircraft, which is enough for Turkey because at least 150-250 different classes of drones will also be added by 2035.
That is more than enough to defend the country and its properties and bases abroad.
The drones can be scaled up even further at low cost by a further +100-150 drones if required.

However, Turkey needs a total of 2 LHDs like the TCG Anadolu and a total of 8-10 destroyers.
The LHD's must operate permanently in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean together with 4 destroyers (2 per LHD) as a deterrent, and 2 real aircraft carriers like MUGEM which is there for foreign and domestic operations.
That is much more important 700-800 manned combat aircraft.

We will get 300+ Kaan at least.

 

[Zoth]

I found this interview, I don't understand Turkish but I guess he was talking about Türkiye's military technology industry. ? I put it here, I leave it to the moderators if they think it appropriate to move it to remove it. Thank you greetings

This interview video is mainly about the Chinese industry as the title also states. It talks about the Airshow China (also known as Zhuhai Airshow) and the latest advancements of Chinese Aviation industry or MiC in general.


Highlights
Airshow China 2024: The international aviation and aerospace fair has officially begun.
Since 1996: This event has been held since 1996 and will run through November 17 this year.
China’s Advancements: China has achieved significant progress in the aviation sector.
Russia’s Strong Presence: Russia is a major participant in the event, emphasizing its importance.
New-Generation Fighters: Advanced fighter jets like the J35 and J20 have been introduced.
Stealth Aircraft Focus: The concept of low radar visibility or “stealth aircraft” is prominent.
Drones and Cargo UAVs: Unmanned aerial vehicles and cargo drones captured significant attention.

Key Insights
Progress in Aviation Technology: China’s recent advancements in aviation, showcased with next-gen aircraft, increase global competition in the aviation market.

International Participation: Russia’s strong presence reflects the military cooperation and rivalry between the two nations. Events in the Far East are reaching parity with major Western aviation shows.
Next-Gen Aircraft: The debut of fifth-generation fighters like the J35 and J20 illustrates China’s expanding military air power, with potential to become significant players internationally.
Stealth Technology: Low radar visibility technology gives these “stealth” aircraft a decisive edge by helping them evade enemy radar, offering a vital advantage in modern warfare.
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Cargo UAVs and drones are increasingly integral to new military strategies, and advances in this area could shape the future of warfare technology.
Military Strategy and Alliances: China’s military strategies influence international dynamics, and its relationship with Russia could deepen military collaboration.
Technological Rivalry: With advanced technologies like hypersonic weapons systems, China aims to surpass the U.S., potentially altering global security balances.

 

[TheInsider]

The Turkish Air Force will acquire 240 Kaans between 2028 and 2040. By 2040, the Turkish Air Force's fighter fleet will consist of 40 Eurofighters, 120 F16s, and 240 Kaans.

 

[Gaucho]

This interview video is mainly about the Chinese industry as the title also states. It talks about the Airshow China (also known as Zhuhai Airshow) and the latest advancements of Chinese Aviation industry or MiC in general.


Highlights
Airshow China 2024: The international aviation and aerospace fair has officially begun.
Since 1996: This event has been held since 1996 and will run through November 17 this year.
China’s Advancements: China has achieved significant progress in the aviation sector.
Russia’s Strong Presence: Russia is a major participant in the event, emphasizing its importance.
New-Generation Fighters: Advanced fighter jets like the J35 and J20 have been introduced.
Stealth Aircraft Focus: The concept of low radar visibility or “stealth aircraft” is prominent.
Drones and Cargo UAVs: Unmanned aerial vehicles and cargo drones captured significant attention.

Key Insights
Progress in Aviation Technology: China’s recent advancements in aviation, showcased with next-gen aircraft, increase global competition in the aviation market.

International Participation: Russia’s strong presence reflects the military cooperation and rivalry between the two nations. Events in the Far East are reaching parity with major Western aviation shows.
Next-Gen Aircraft: The debut of fifth-generation fighters like the J35 and J20 illustrates China’s expanding military air power, with potential to become significant players internationally.
Stealth Technology: Low radar visibility technology gives these “stealth” aircraft a decisive edge by helping them evade enemy radar, offering a vital advantage in modern warfare.
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Cargo UAVs and drones are increasingly integral to new military strategies, and advances in this area could shape the future of warfare technology.
Military Strategy and Alliances: China’s military strategies influence international dynamics, and its relationship with Russia could deepen military collaboration.
Technological Rivalry: With advanced technologies like hypersonic weapons systems, China aims to surpass the U.S., potentially altering global security balances.

Thanks for your response
I thought about it, and I also thought that he might be talking about the technological developments that Türkiye has today.

 

[Zoth]

Thanks for your response
I thought about it, and I also thought that he might be talking about the technological developments that Türkiye has today.

To learn more about Turkish technological development in general you can head to Turkey sub-category in this forum, there are so many sections that talk about different topics that can help you learn about new stuff.

Turkish Defence Forum

defencehub.live

 

[chngr]

The Turkish Air Force will acquire 240 Kaans between 2028 and 2040. By 2040, the Turkish Air Force's fighter fleet will consist of 40 Eurofighters, 120 F16s, and 240 Kaans.

No

Haven't learn anything...there was no domestic engine yet, we will most likely see fully functional KAAN by 2037-40

Even if we don't count these...You cannot produce 240 aircraft in 10 years and close the line after that

Production and orders have to be spread over years

Look even after 30 years France still order Rafale, Europe still order Eurofighter

Thanks to this, the production lines still remained open, the aircraft remained up to date with developments...And they can still exports after 30 years

HvKK's KAAN orders should spread over at least 30 years...2030-2060

 

[Gaucho]

To learn more about Turkish technological development in general you can head to Turkey sub-category in this forum, there are so many sections that talk about different topics that can help you learn about new stuff.

Turkish Defence Forum

defencehub.live

Thank you!!

 

[2033]

The Turkish Air Force will acquire 240 Kaans between 2028 and 2040. By 2040, the Turkish Air Force's fighter fleet will consist of 40 Eurofighters, 120 F16s, and 240 Kaans.

Considering that we will switch to a domestic engine after 2035, 240 Kaan is impossible.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Considering that we will switch to a domestic engine after 2035

And that’s if everything goes well.

 

[Zoth]

Considering that we will switch to a domestic engine after 2035, 240 Kaan is impossible.

And that’s if everything goes well.

Exactly this, we don't even know if we are going to receive the f110 engines or not.
We are talking about a country who refuses to give us the jets that we paid for, they don't even consider giving us back the money.

If USA goes full crazy and decides to not give us engines, both Hurjet and Kaan will get delayed by so many years if we decide to not find any alternative.

We have alternatives, but even if we decide to go that route, it will delay the projects at least a year or two to adapt to those alternative engines.

I'm not going to lie, i hope what i mentioned above happens, because i think that in the long term , it will be much better for us to get the alternatives of F404(WS-13) and F110(WS-10).

I personally don't trust Americans at all at this rate, we made very good deals with Chinese and they stay loyal to their agreements, by simply letting Varyag pass the straits, we gained a very important technology which led to Hisar and then to Siper.


I don't know what others think, i would love to hear your opinions too.

 

[dBSPL]

IMO, 200+ KAAN and 80 Eurofighter+Viper is enough investment in TurAF (until it moves toward 6th gen platforms in 25 years or so.) As there will be hundreds of loyal wingman alongside these manned platforms. Which I don't think were given enough attention in 2000s and early 2010s. Back then the Concept of 5th gen areal warfare with the MUM-T at the center of it wasn't widely accepted. Even for USAF.

Technically Türkiye can still procure more KAAN. But in the end it is about overall trade-off and balancing between Air, land, Naval and space capabilities. And i think that money is better invested elsewhere with more return potential for strategic effect. Like an SSN program. (Which definitely doesn't get enough attention here among Turkish industry enthusiasts.)

If we ignore the efforts that were thwarted in the early years of the Republic; The Turkish Air Force has come to this day with a platform acquisition adventure that is completely dependent on foreign sources. KAAN is not only a new generation combatant platform, but also a domestic industrial product , that will be designed and produced directly in line with the needs and doctrines of TAF. The money will not go to Lockheed or Northop, but to Aselsan and TAI... Every stage of maintenance, and all logistics of the aircraft will be provided by domestic means, every penny spent will go to domestic institutions and companies. Not only the generation transition, a new era is opening in the air force as multidimensional mean. Let's keep this in mind.

This airframe will continuously develop and will have a production line for at least 20 years, maybe over 30 years. Maybe 15 years later, another main combatant program by TAI will be done on another airframe, but this airframe will definitely remain in production for many years. There have been fleets that have been closed due to external dependency in the active fleet structure, aging platforms, accidents, or other platform supply-based problems. Years ago, when KAAN was still a project on paper and TAF was still a part of JSF, authorized sources speculated that the new generation jet supply would be over 300 F-35+KAAN in total. In today's situation, my logic is saying that the possible KAAN airframe production number that we heard about ten years ago should be revised upwards and that this average platform need that we heard about ten years ago should be met in this way.

Because let alone next 25 years, even in the past 10 years, our risk perception has just increased exponentially. We are struggling with wars or near-war problems on 4 sides, which of our foreign followers would be surprised if one morning the world media wrote that the Turkish state was caught in a war? The threat is real, and it's close enough to engulf you at any moment.

Our fleet numbers are decreasing because we cannot supply aircraft, the country is under a serious security threat and this is increasing, the region is a boiling cauldron. This is one side of the scale; on the other side of the scale there is the domestic industry, engineering and workforce that is now quite developed and can meet its own aviation needs. On the other side, efforts to increase our pilot numbers are becoming increasingly diverse, unmanned aviation will not kill manned combat aviation.

I am simply adding up the data that is available, I am not doing anything else. In this case, there is not a single data that can make me believe that the Turkish Air Force will shrink in terms of main combat platforms in the transition to the new generation.

 

[godel44]

With the assignments Trump is doing, I would expect there to be serious problems with the US in the next 4 years, due to PKK, Israel-Hamas, or Greece or any other reason they can drum up. Hopefully the F110 engine can be procured in the background and they can be satisfied making a big show of denying us the F-35. But an engine embargo and delay of a few years in Kaan is a distinct possibility that we are hopefully preparing for.

 

[uçuyorum]

Didn't someone from TAI at some point say they expected total KAAN production including exports was expected to be around 300?

 

[Saithan]

Eurofighter is many things, but it's not new.

I meant it would be a new product that we would have to get familiar with.

And I can see people are high on stuff again, counting their eggs and birds well ahead of realities.

Let's just make 100 hürkus with domestic engine, just to be a little safer. We can give those to Africa etc. once we get real jets.

 

[Huelague]

You cannot produce 240 aircraft in 10 years and close the line after that

Who said?

 

[chngr]

Who said?

You cant see who replied am i?

Without continuous flow of order..what do you expect?

Thats why its important for pruducer country's orders to spread over the years

 

[Huelague]

You cant see who replied am i?

Without continuous flow of order..what do you expect?

Thats why its important for pruducer country's orders to spread over the years

T. Kotil was clear about that. I will trust more in his words.