Navy Turkish Aircraft Carrier Project

[Cabatli_TR]

Boss it's nuclear powered . How could we run this career?

I just gave AC examples from Europe bro. Most likely, Turkish AC will be powered with conventional propulsion systems.

 

[Zafer]

I just gave AC examples from Europe bro. Most likely, Turkish AC will be powered with conventional propulsion systems.

If you take the QE of UK as an example aero engine derivative turbine propulsion is a good way. Because of the size of the ship the engines have to be oversize, either domestic made or RR of UK.

 

[dBSPL]

As you know, a cargo ship belonging to a Turkish company was attacked off the coast of Guinea. One of our sailors died and three of them were injured. The remaining 15 personal were kidnapped. This region has almost lawless area where pirate activity has increased by 50% in recent years and there is no international control and countermeasure mechanism, unlike the Somalia-Aden line. Guinea is one of the countries we have the best relations in west Africa, and one of the biggest pirate attacks in recent years is taking place against our cargo ship in this country's high seas. Do you know which company is operating the international port of Conakry (the biggest commercial gate of Guinea and one of the biggest in region)? Turkish company. Does the Turkish navy have a supply base here? No.

Yes, Turkish navy is our greatest guarantee for our merchant ships in the Mediterranean. We handle Tripoli port freight freely, like Ukraine, Georgia in past and to Somalia present. However, the economic and military situation dictates the creation of a new outer circle layer, in addition to the expansion pressure it creates for the navy. This time beyond the straits ... Did I mention the grand strategy?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

If you take the QE of UK as an example aero engine derivative turbine propulsion is a good way. Because of the size of the ship the engines have to be oversize, either domestic made or RR of UK.

Larger AC will be a must for Turkey bro. If you take the countries operating light carriers or LHDs as an example, you will see they are the countries that will station STOVL F35 aircrafts on them. Turkey doesn't have an agenda to develop a STOVL technology, nor have a chance to procure F35B anymore so Turkish decision makers had to abandon to construct 28000-30000 ton LHD and agreed to proceed with a true aircraft carrier program. The main logic behind this desicion is about the aircrafts to be stationed on domestic AC. They will be conventional, twin engine naval TF-X and maybe MIUS block-1/2 aircrafts. These aircrafts will need a longer runway to take off and landing. No matter which release method Turkish AC will use so I think Turkish AC will have a displacement around min 40000ton and max 60000ton.

 

[Yasar_TR]

HMS-QE2 carrier, has cost UK tax payer 6.2 billion pounds. That is 8.4 billion dollars. This included development cost too. Next ship HMS-Prince of Wales will be less. But still expected to cost close to 3.2 billion pounds (4.5-5 billion dollars).
HMS-QE2 was fully commissioned in late 2018. Since then by March 2020, it had cost UK tax payer 600 million pounds (over 1 billion dollars) to maintain. It is not a nuclear powered ship and uses a lot of fuel. Has f35B planes operating from it’s deck. And it is not fully operational yet. This does not include the carrier group ships’ running costs. Nor does it include the cost of planes and equipment it has to house. (Which by the way is being budgeted at over 10.5 billion pounds after recent cuts)
So just to build 2 ships and furnish them with 48 planes, is going to cost UK over 20 billion pounds (around 27 billion dollars).
A typical carrier group of US costs 6.5 million dollars per day. Even if we can halve that then we are looking at a 1 billion dollar bill each year. Also it is not good economics to build just one of these ships. Financial logic dictates that there should be a second ship at least.
Are we insane? Or stupid to believe we can afford to spend this sort of money on technologies we don’t even have. As they say in Turkish let us put our feet on ground soundly . Then let us walk before we leap. other wise we could have another TCG Anadolu in our hands. A ship we don’t have anything to put on it’s deck and nothing to protect it with. Never mind the financial disaster it could bring with it.

UK aircraft carrier groups won't be operating to full extent until 2026

26 June 2020: NAO reports on challenges remaining to the Carrier Strike programme, including cost overruns since their last report in 2017.

www.icaew.com

 

[Oublious]

HMS-QE2 carrier, has cost UK tax payer 6.2 billion pounds. That is 8.4 billion dollars. This included development cost too. Next ship HMS-Prince of Wales will be less. But still expected to cost close to 3.2 billion pounds (4.5-5 billion dollars).
HMS-QE2 was fully commissioned in late 2018. Since then by March 2020, it had cost UK tax payer 600 million pounds (over 1 billion dollars) to maintain. It is not a nuclear powered ship and uses a lot of fuel. Has f35B planes operating from it’s deck. And it is not fully operational yet. This does not include the carrier group ships’ running costs. Nor does it include the cost of planes and equipment it has to house. (Which by the way is being budgeted at over 10.5 billion pounds after recent cuts)
So just to build 2 ships and furnish them with 48 planes, is going to cost UK over 20 billion pounds (around 27 billion dollars).
A typical carrier group of US costs 6.5 million dollars per day. Even if we can halve that then we are looking at a 1 billion dollar bill each year. Also it is not good economics to build just one of these ships. Financial logic dictates that there should be a second ship at least.
Are we insane? Or stupid to believe we can afford to spend this sort of money on technologies we don’t even have. As they say in Turkish let us put our feet on ground soundly . Then let us walk before we leap. other wise we could have another TCG Anadolu in our hands. A ship we don’t have anything to put on it’s deck and nothing to protect it with. Never mind the financial disaster it could bring with it.

UK aircraft carrier groups won't be operating to full extent until 2026

26 June 2020: NAO reports on challenges remaining to the Carrier Strike programme, including cost overruns since their last report in 2017.

www.icaew.com

Then forget Mavi Vatan and building allies around the world. If you want to be player in Persian gulf to Gulf of Aden you will need it.


I prefer it with nuclear power plant.

 

[adenl]

HMS-QE2 carrier, has cost UK tax payer 6.2 billion pounds. That is 8.4 billion dollars. This included development cost too. Next ship HMS-Prince of Wales will be less. But still expected to cost close to 3.2 billion pounds (4.5-5 billion dollars).
HMS-QE2 was fully commissioned in late 2018. Since then by March 2020, it had cost UK tax payer 600 million pounds (over 1 billion dollars) to maintain. It is not a nuclear powered ship and uses a lot of fuel. Has f35B planes operating from it’s deck. And it is not fully operational yet. This does not include the carrier group ships’ running costs. Nor does it include the cost of planes and equipment it has to house. (Which by the way is being budgeted at over 10.5 billion pounds after recent cuts)
So just to build 2 ships and furnish them with 48 planes, is going to cost UK over 20 billion pounds (around 27 billion dollars).
A typical carrier group of US costs 6.5 million dollars per day. Even if we can halve that then we are looking at a 1 billion dollar bill each year. Also it is not good economics to build just one of these ships. Financial logic dictates that there should be a second ship at least.
Are we insane? Or stupid to believe we can afford to spend this sort of money on technologies we don’t even have. As they say in Turkish let us put our feet on ground soundly . Then let us walk before we leap. other wise we could have another TCG Anadolu in our hands. A ship we don’t have anything to put on it’s deck and nothing to protect it with. Never mind the financial disaster it could bring with it.

UK aircraft carrier groups won't be operating to full extent until 2026

26 June 2020: NAO reports on challenges remaining to the Carrier Strike programme, including cost overruns since their last report in 2017.

www.icaew.com

It all depends how large the Turkish economy is by 2030 and beyond. Technologically, it is achievable by Turkey.

 

[Zafer]

HMS-QE2 carrier, has cost UK tax payer 6.2 billion pounds. That is 8.4 billion dollars. This included development cost too. Next ship HMS-Prince of Wales will be less. But still expected to cost close to 3.2 billion pounds (4.5-5 billion dollars).
HMS-QE2 was fully commissioned in late 2018. Since then by March 2020, it had cost UK tax payer 600 million pounds (over 1 billion dollars) to maintain. It is not a nuclear powered ship and uses a lot of fuel. Has f35B planes operating from it’s deck. And it is not fully operational yet. This does not include the carrier group ships’ running costs. Nor does it include the cost of planes and equipment it has to house. (Which by the way is being budgeted at over 10.5 billion pounds after recent cuts)
So just to build 2 ships and furnish them with 48 planes, is going to cost UK over 20 billion pounds (around 27 billion dollars).
A typical carrier group of US costs 6.5 million dollars per day. Even if we can halve that then we are looking at a 1 billion dollar bill each year. Also it is not good economics to build just one of these ships. Financial logic dictates that there should be a second ship at least.
Are we insane? Or stupid to believe we can afford to spend this sort of money on technologies we don’t even have. As they say in Turkish let us put our feet on ground soundly . Then let us walk before we leap. other wise we could have another TCG Anadolu in our hands. A ship we don’t have anything to put on it’s deck and nothing to protect it with. Never mind the financial disaster it could bring with it.

UK aircraft carrier groups won't be operating to full extent until 2026

26 June 2020: NAO reports on challenges remaining to the Carrier Strike programme, including cost overruns since their last report in 2017.

www.icaew.com

The UK leadership have the balls and ours do not, laughable.
Since the second ship is cheaper we only make the second one.

 

[Xenon54]

Then forget Mavi Vatan and building allies around the world. If you want to be player in Persian gulf to Gulf of Aden you will need it.


I prefer it with nuclear power plant.

More like forget mavi vatan if you redirect funds to expensive toys by neglecting key areas that he mentioned before.
You want a empty hull to show who has the biggest organ, then go ahead, build an AC without a destroyer, planes, frigates, submarines etc. etc.

Turkey is pulling an Egypt here tbh, at least we can put S-400 as AD on its deck though.

 

[Sinan]

HMS-QE2 carrier, has cost UK tax payer 6.2 billion pounds. That is 8.4 billion dollars. This included development cost too. Next ship HMS-Prince of Wales will be less. But still expected to cost close to 3.2 billion pounds (4.5-5 billion dollars).
HMS-QE2 was fully commissioned in late 2018. Since then by March 2020, it had cost UK tax payer 600 million pounds (over 1 billion dollars) to maintain. It is not a nuclear powered ship and uses a lot of fuel. Has f35B planes operating from it’s deck. And it is not fully operational yet. This does not include the carrier group ships’ running costs. Nor does it include the cost of planes and equipment it has to house. (Which by the way is being budgeted at over 10.5 billion pounds after recent cuts)
So just to build 2 ships and furnish them with 48 planes, is going to cost UK over 20 billion pounds (around 27 billion dollars).
A typical carrier group of US costs 6.5 million dollars per day. Even if we can halve that then we are looking at a 1 billion dollar bill each year. Also it is not good economics to build just one of these ships. Financial logic dictates that there should be a second ship at least.
Are we insane? Or stupid to believe we can afford to spend this sort of money on technologies we don’t even have. As they say in Turkish let us put our feet on ground soundly . Then let us walk before we leap. other wise we could have another TCG Anadolu in our hands. A ship we don’t have anything to put on it’s deck and nothing to protect it with. Never mind the financial disaster it could bring with it.

UK aircraft carrier groups won't be operating to full extent until 2026

26 June 2020: NAO reports on challenges remaining to the Carrier Strike programme, including cost overruns since their last report in 2017.

www.icaew.com

There will be no ACs in near future. Not with our economy in crisis and getting smaller everyday. People don't understand how much expensive to built and operate a carrier group. If it were upto me, i would built Battlestar Galactica and conquer the universe but you can't make stuff without money.

Anyways, i wouldn't take the word of Erdogan. Photo from 10 years ago.

 

[adenl]

More like forget mavi vatan if you redirect funds to expensive toys by neglecting key areas that he mentioned before.
You want a empty hull to show who has the biggest d*ck, then go ahead, build an AC without a destroyer, planes, frigates, submarines etc. etc.

Turkey is pulling an Egypt here tbh, at least we can put S-400 as AD on its deck though.

View attachment 12767

No, you'll be able to install indigenous VLS with indigenous SAM and indigenous CIWS, guided by indigenous radars and protected by indigenous ESM and ECM and all of this integrated and directed with indigenous CMS...

 

[Xenon54]

No, you'll be able to install indigenous VLS with indigenous SAM and indigenous CIWS, guided by indigenous radars and protected by indigenous ESM and ECM and all of this integrated and directed with indigenous CMS...

It was an exaggerated exsample yet still we lack the infrasctructure, planes and most importantly money for something like this.
If we had interests in blue waters then ok but our interests are in our imadiate neighborhood, we cant afford that.

But no need to discuss this further actually, the idea will be buried after 2023 anyways.

 

[adenl]

There will be no ACs in near future. Not with our economy in crisis and getting smaller everyday. People don't understand how much expensive to built and operate a carrier group. If it were upto me, i would built Battlestar Galactica and conquer the universe but you can't make stuff without money.

Anyways, i wouldn't take the word of Erdogan. Photo from 10 years ago.

"Aim for the sky, because even if you miss, you'll be among the stars"

 

[Oublious]

More like forget mavi vatan if you redirect funds to expensive toys by neglecting key areas that he mentioned before.
You want a empty hull to show who has the biggest d*ck, then go ahead, build an AC without a destroyer, planes, frigates, submarines etc. etc.

Turkey is pulling an Egypt here tbh, at least we can put S-400 as AD on its deck though.

View attachment 12767

You people are nuts, like we will make it tommorow. It will be a long project, TFX was started 10 years ago and the same wil happen with AC project.


We will be able put G40 and Gokdeniz, i mean what are you talking about. Untill TCG anadol will be operational in 2023 or maybe later.

 

[Fairon]

"Aim for the sky, because even if you miss, you'll be among the stars"

Ah, so thats where our airplane went.

For aircraft carrier, i think we should update our fleet before spending our budget on an aircraft carrier. We have to replace Yavuz and Gabya class frigates(they are 40 years old ships) and that will take time and a lot of money and i don't think we have enough budget to do both.(I'm not sure we even have enough budget to do one) Also we need additional ships for operating the aircraft carrier as well.

 

[Xenon54]

You people are nuts, like we will make it tommorow. It will be a long project, TFX was started 10 years ago and the same wil happen with AC project.


We will be able put G40 and Gokdeniz, i mean what are you talking about. Untill TCG anadol will be operational in 2023 or maybe later.

Ok tell me why we need a AC in the first place? Do we have any over seas territories that needs to be defended?

 

[Turko]

In order to remain Mavi Vatan , frigates with wide capability will be enough. Our EEZ maximum 200 km from Turkish coastal line. İ would go for Transforming LHD into guided missile Destroyer, launching air Defence frigates and subs.

 

[adenl]

So I just put 'naysayer' trough google translate to see what the Turkish translation is. It is also naysayer!

 

[mulj]

I can not see how is it bad to have finished design of AC in the safe, and for what south korea needs ac or italy, i know opponets will scream economy, economy but that is small thinking like economy will remain forever on same track.

 

[Balamir]

I wrote about this in the previous forum. Turkey is considering seriously the aircraft carrier, the aircraft carrier design dzkk'n connected to the DPO could personally officials announced. Finally, concrete explanations started to come. Topics clear Turkey wants a real aircraft carrier to produce their own design. However, the aircraft carrier is extremely expensive to manufacture and operate and puts a serious burden on the economy. In this case, Turkey's very expensive and would take more robust steps to meet the needs of a large ship design and production instead will test the strength of the domestic industry, an efficient price / performance product that I think will occur. I think that DPO and STM can get consultancy on design from outside (for example Navantia) when necessary, based on the design of MİLGEM. In addition, the first shipyards that will come to the fore for production will be Istnabul Shipyard Command and Sedef shipyard. It is likely that there will be a system that will be able to carry at least 40 aircraft over 40 thousand tons and will use an electromagnetic launch system for the take-off of aircraft. After all, not a Quenn Elizabeth, but a ship equivalent to an LPX II could be the target.