TR Navy Turkish Navy|News & Discussions

[Sanchez]

Erdogan said this as well tonight. “Hopefully with the Spaniards, we will build a higher version of this.”, referring to Anadolu. It’s not the first time he mentioned a possible bigger Trakya but first time mentioning Spanish I think

Spaniards part here interests me. I’d think a bigger version here refers to a LHA/ light carrier mix able to carry out fixed wing STOBAR or simplified CATOBAR operations, probably lacking a welldeck for amphib operations.

I doubt however Navantia has experince in such a design. Athlas 26000 Anadolu is based on is literally their biggest offering. Maybe a Turkish design with Navantia’s technical design help?

@Anmdt what do you think?

 

[Ripley]

Is this why the talks with RR has been non ending for all this time?

Good question. Really curious myself now.

Is it smart to make this public and potentially get a torrent of bad pr for RR which may or may not force them a rethink?

Also add bad pr on our side, as our “allies“ put us on their sight as the next villain.

 

[Sanchez]

Also on a possible SSN or SSBN, look I will be the first one that will want the next Cerbe or Dumlupınar to be nuclear powered but is it really the first order of business when we need new surface combatants asap?
Also thinking it out loud, would this be the first Milden class or a second type after Milden? At least 10-15 years later?

 

[Afif]

Also on a possible SSN or SSBN, look I will be the first one that will want the next Cerbe or Dumlupınar to be nuclear powered but is it really the first order of business when we need new surface combatants asap?
Also thinking it out loud, would this be the first Milden class or a second type after Milden? At least 10-15 years later?

Is there even any doubt? Definitely something after MILDEN.

At least 20-25 years later from now IMO. Even UK is taking more than 15 years to develop SSN-AUKUS. Which has world leading experience in developing and manufacturing SSN/SSBN.

 

[Ripley]

Is there even any doubt? Definitely something after MILDEN.

At least 20-25 years later IMO. Even UK is taking more than 15 years to develop SSN-AUKUS. Which has world leading experience in developing and manufacturing SSN/SSBN.

It’s only logical and make sense too. But Mr. Erdoğan is known to defy logic in the sense that he considers such acts makes him above logic. That’s why we sometimes get edgy when he declares a project

 

[Kaan Azman]

Next ship will most likely have a similar configruation with Admiral Kuznetsov and its derivatives. Where there is a dedicated landing rumway and a takeoff runway. I doubt they will waste time with RD on CATOBAR stuff as they intend KE and TB3 to work as STOBAR UAVs.

We can expect a larger body and volume for aircraft hangar.

 

[Afif]

It’s only logical and make sense too. But Mr. Erdoğan is known to defy logic in the sense that he considers such acts makes him above logic. That’s why we sometimes get edgy when he declares a project

Of course, I wouldn’t mind if Türkiye can develop it faster. But seems unlikely.

The thing is, SSN are the most sophisticated and lethal conventional weapon platforms ever designed by men. Even though we are more enthusiastic about F-35 or KAAN, real beasts are those that roams beneath the world's ocean for months with formidable firepower. (I mean, no wonder that each costs $2-3 billions. Of course, the new generation will cost even more, likely $5-7 billions each)

IMO, given Türkiye does not have any previous experience, from conceptual study to design, development, manufacturing technology acquisition and testing of critical sub-systems will take 15 years. And then building the first boat will likely to take 5-7 years. Followed by 2/3 years of trial before commissioning.

 

[uçuyorum]

I think submarines will increase in importance in the next century as ability to detect surface ships becomes easier and easier although nuclear subs aren't very stealthy either due to constant noise. I think it is more important to make AIP submarines capable of carrying a large quantity of long range missiles including ballistics than the nuclear propulsion.

 

[dBSPL]

What I understand from the explanations and some significant speculations is that it will go beyond the current Navantia Atlas design infrastructure, and I believe that the desired platform may be seriously similar to the French carrier de Gaulle. Over 40k displacemet, angled deck, bigger hangaring, catapult system etc.

One of the most important grounds that make me think in this direction is that concepts such as Hürjet Naval have been mentioned many times by high-level people from the defense bureaucracy and companies and the statements that there are serious conceptual studies. and Naval forces that want to launch a hurjet variant in the 2030s will probably want to launch a 5th generation jet in the 2040s. On the unmanned jet side, Anka and KE advanced variants will be available. The target should be a ship that will allow a high sortie capacity, have an advanced catapult system (emals), and have a high cruising range and endurance.

 

[Afif]

I think submarines will increase in importance in the next century as ability to detect surface ships becomes easier and easier although nuclear subs aren't very stealthy either due to constant noise. I think it is more important to make AIP submarines capable of carrying a large quantity of long range missiles including ballistics than the nuclear propulsion.

SSN are the single most important conventional platforms out there. If it weren’t the case Superpowers would not have bother to invest hundreds of billions.

And your assertion about nuclear subs not being very stealthy is not correct.
Seawolf and Virginia boats has a noise level of 95 db compared to the ocean background noise level of 90 db.

Next gen US/UK SSN/SSBNs featuring new technologies (notably electric drives) will be as quiet as the ocean itself.
And French Suffren boats are already believed to be that.

 

[Sanchez]

The target should be a ship that will allow a high sortie capacity, have an advanced catapult system (emals), and have a high cruising range and endurance.

This is a multi billion dollar ship. Anadolu cost more than half a billion. Trieste costs 1+bn. Such a ship would cost at least 2-3 billions and noone’s going to give us EMALS tech as well so few more hundred millions there.

 

[uçuyorum]

SSN are the single most important conventional platforms out there. If it weren’t the case Superpowers would not have bother to invest hundreds of billions.

And your assertion about nuclear subs not being very stealthy is not correct.
Seawolf and Virginia boats has a noise level of 95 db compared to the ocean background noise level of 90 db.

Next gen US/UK SSN/SSBNs featuring new technologies (notably electric drives) will be as quiet as the ocean itself.
And French Suffren boats are already believed to be that.

What's the background noise level in mediterranean

 

[Afif]

What's the background noise level in mediterranean

Afaik, Seas generally has a higher noise level than the open ocean due to more busy water ways.

 

[Anmdt]

Also on a possible SSN or SSBN, look I will be the first one that will want the next Cerbe or Dumlupınar to be nuclear powered but is it really the first order of business when we need new surface combatants asap?
Also thinking it out loud, would this be the first Milden class or a second type after Milden? At least 10-15 years later?

Nobody studies SSNs currently (except some amateurs maybe, i don't know that). All efforts and resources on submarine matter is being used for Milden. (And STM's pet project STM500 as funded by SSB indirectly). Milden project itself has dozens of key sub-projects that will take a decade to complete. Let's note this aside, Milden is currently in conceptual design phase.

There has been negotiations with Navantia for awhile. Both for an export oppurtinity and the enlarged version of Anadolu. Meanwhile there are some negotiations with British on the aircraft carrier as well.

So i believe it is still not clear whether we are getting Anadolu pro-max and AC or just an AC or dropping the AC and continueing with Anadolu pro-max.

 

[Heartbang]

American naval research institutes were working on using a radioisotope thermoelectric generator as the hot-stage of an Stirling-based AIP system.
Relatively simple and on the cheap, we could look into this.

This is a multi billion dollar ship. Anadolu cost more than half a billion. Trieste costs 1+bn. Such a ship would cost at least 2-3 billions and noone’s going to give us EMALS tech as well so few more hundred millions there.

Unit cost will be lower if we make a lot of them, which I reckon we should do.

 

[Khagan1923]

Nobody studies SSNs currently (except some amateurs maybe, i don't know that). All efforts and resources on submarine matter is being used for Milden. (And STM's pet project STM500 as funded by SSB indirectly). Milden project itself has dozens of key sub-projects that will take a decade to complete. Let's note this aside, Milden is currently in conceptual design phase.

There has been negotiations with Navantia for awhile. Both for an export oppurtinity and the enlarged version of Anadolu. Meanwhile there are some negotiations with British on the aircraft carrier as well.

So i believe it is still not clear whether we are getting Anadolu pro-max and AC or just an AC or dropping the AC and continueing with Anadolu pro-max.

If they want a AC they will have to go with the Brits there is no way around that. Spain doesn't have the expertise. So either this is just a move to put pressure on the Brits, or they intend on like you said to go with Anadolu Pro Max Ultra+AC or the idea for a "true" AC has been dropped due to feasibility and the Navy instead wants a enlargened Anadolu.

 

[B_A]

Of course, I wouldn’t mind if Türkiye can develop it faster. But seems unlikely.

The thing is, SSN are the most sophisticated and lethal conventional weapon platforms ever designed by men. Even though we are more enthusiastic about F-35 or KAAN, real beasts are those that roams beneath the world's ocean for months with formidable firepower. (I mean, no wonder that each costs $2-3 billions. Of course, the new generation will cost even more, likely $5-7 billions each)

IMO, given Türkiye does not have any previous experience, from conceptual study to design, development, manufacturing technology acquisition and testing of critical sub-systems will take 15 years. And then building the first boat will likely to take 5-7 years. Followed by 2/3 years of trial before commissioning.

Chinese produced their first SSN in 1970s...They could only produced any advanced fighter jet after 2000s..

Turkey don't need SSN now.Unless we have nuclear weapons.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

If Turkiye will get abother aircraft carrier bigger than Anadolu than navy for sure will ask for more frigates or destroyers
If we see US AC is protected by at least 5 big destroyers so Turkiye will do something the same
2 AC need protection by 10-15 warships so with only 4 I class that have some modern SAM protection only 1 can be protected.
I hope Navy order more bigger frigates and start building Tf 2000 desteoyers
1 AC should have
2 - i class
1- Tf 2000
2- tf 4500
1- milgem
Navy should order
4 - more I Class
6 - Tf 4500
9- Tf 2000

 

[TheInsider]

Is there even any doubt? Definitely something after MILDEN.

At least 20-25 years later from now IMO. Even UK is taking more than 15 years to develop SSN-AUKUS. Which has world leading experience in developing and manufacturing SSN/SSBN.

It is planned after Milden. Milden is slowly heading to the prototype production phase. SSBN really depends on SMR. Turkiye recently announced grants for scientific projects and studies for nuclear reactors. We have a long way ahead at least 10 years to see a prototype reactor.

BTW those projects are in the scope of 2053 goals. The nuclear deterrent is also a part of 2053 goals. It means we want to achieve those goals in 2053 at the latest.

 

[Quasar]

may be just something intersting Milden looks like Turkish Type 212 in 2017 and more like a Type 214 in 2022