TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Fuzuli NL

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I have a feeling that the Aksungur will be used primarily by the navy, in other words they may have the biggest order for this particular UAV especially if the integration of anti-ship and anti-submarine munition is successful.
Looking a the proposed configurations, I believe some will go to MIB (MIT) and some for the Army and/or air force.
 

BalkanTurk90

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2 Aksungurs per month are pretty good since TAI has alot of work to do with other weapons ,but what will happen with Anka? Will they stop producing it ? How many does Turkey have ?
 

Fuzuli NL

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2 Aksungurs per month are pretty good since TAI has alot of work to do with other weapons ,but what will happen with Anka? Will they stop producing it ? How many does Turkey have ?
Even if Anka production halts, the important thing is that it can be revived in case of demand for export or replacement for crashed ones.
Turkish Aerospace is going to jump a league or two with regard to production infrastructure and readiness along with TEI and TR Motor.
If they keep this spirit and pace, then by 2030 TA, TEI, and probably TR Motor are going to be world brand names.
 

the

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Doesn't it seem a bit inefficient to have Anka, Aksungar,Vestel,TB2,TB3,Akinci in production ? ( and thats not considering Goksungar soon )

Wouldn't it be better if they focused on a Harop-like loitering muntion? And then perhaps shift resoruces to producing an unmanned fighter or combine their technical know-how to speed up work on TF-X?
 

Ryder

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The netherlands scrapped their tanks only to regret it soon after.

Tanks and Infantry are still going to play a role in future warfares even if unmanned, autonomous, electronic warfare and cyber warfare become the norm.

Tanks still have a future.
 

Fuzuli NL

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Doesn't it seem a bit inefficient to have Anka, Aksungar,Vestel,TB2,TB3,Akinci in production ? ( and thats not considering Goksungar soon )

Wouldn't it be better if they focused on a Harop-like loitering muntion? And then perhaps shift resoruces to producing an unmanned fighter or combine their technical know-how to speed up work on TF-X?
Kargi (Harop-like loitering munition) is expected to be revealed soon by Vestel Defence. TEI is going to make its engine.
As for the TFX, TA has already sacrificed a year or more from Gökbey project for its benefit and according to statements by DM and Mr. Kotil everything is going according to plan and schedule.
 

kimov

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Thinking the inventory and Akıncı/TB3 etc, 19 in a year is quite much, let's say 2 year production, at least 40 Aksungurs will be in the inventory which would be enough. I hope they can export it. And I think they should start with Navy, East Med where high endurance is important.

In my opinion, next iteration with Aksungur/Anka should be solar powered high altitude and high endurance version, like solar impulse. I see that potential in the design. A solar Powered Aksungur patrolling East Med for a week without landing would a gem.
Solar impulse was not particularly high altitude with its 8km ceiling, nor was it unmanned or had particularly long endurance (36h).
You are probably thinking about NASA's Helios solar powered drone which reached about 30km.

Forgetting about solar, I think a stealth drone equipped with 2 BWR AA missiles at 25km or above altitude would limit the use of manned air-craft in contested air apace so this should be goal to develop within the next 2 generations.
 

what

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Doesn't it seem a bit inefficient to have Anka, Aksungar,Vestel,TB2,TB3,Akinci in production ? ( and thats not considering Goksungar soon )

Wouldn't it be better if they focused on a Harop-like loitering muntion? And then perhaps shift resoruces to producing an unmanned fighter or combine their technical know-how to speed up work on TF-X?

I think eventually they will stop, once the orders run out and there are no new exports. But TAI doesn't stand idle, they improve and develop new products even without orders. So we might see a new generation of Anka, if they see a market for it.

But considering that they have to shift engineers from one project to another, because of the lack of engineers, maybe not.
 

Zafer

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They always say many countries offer them but we barely see exports.
We can only sell them when many countries demand them.
Making such decisions are not easy for countries as they are also pressured by other countries.
But the more we made a show the more demand we received.
However there is a supply chain shift for Baykar so the new configurations need to be operational before demand can be turned into sales.
And the newcomers Akıncı and Aksungur have to make operational show before they can be ordered.
For Anka too the newly available more powerful engines mean some modifications must be worked on.
I bet in a years time we can start selling many of these planes and need many machines to count the money.
 
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Fuzuli NL

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This Norwegian researcher is comparing F-35 purchase to Bayraktar TB2 drones.


Google translator:

How many F-35s does Norway need?​


How an overpriced fighter made many people think new, but not Norway.​


2 min Published: 01.05.21 — 18.01 Updated: 2 days ago

The F-35 fighter jet is in a crisis of confidence. The plane has been criticized by everyone from former Secretary of Defense Christopher C. Miller to the current chair of the Congressional Defense Committee, Democrat Adam Smith.


At a meeting at the Brookings Institution on March 17, the latter said: "The United States must" stop throwing money into this hole. " He said this shortly after the UK reduced its F-35 order from 138 to 48.


Dag Henriksen at Luftkrigsskolen (April 13) criticizes my view, that Norway should reduce the number of F-35s and use the savings on combat drones: "F-35 and the development of drones have nothing to do with each other." This is in contrast to the British new Integrated Review.


In an article in The Sunday Times, an official explains that the F-35 is a slow, long-term program. This means that "things you have not yet purchased may become outdated, or you may need fewer of them or the threats may change."

Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones, which recently cut the Armenian defense into strips, cost five million kroner each. You can, in other words, buy a fleet of 22 TB2 combat drones for the price of an F-35.



What has changed? Originally, the F-35 was to be a relatively inexpensive fifth-generation fighter. It became the world's most expensive weapon platform. Flying an F-35 currently costs 360,000 kroner per hour, according to USAF. The Norwegian Armed Forces operates with completely different and much lower estimates.


The F-35 was intended to be the new F-16, NATO's workhorse. This now seems unlikely. The commander of the US Air Force, Charles Brown, announced in February that they would develop a completely new aircraft to replace their F-16s. There are two reasons for this, reliability and price.




The first part of this criticism is unreasonable. Generational shifts in fighter jets tend to follow an S-curve where the new aircraft initially struggles to defeat the aircraft they are to replace. The potential of the new technology is realized as problems are solved.


This is also the case with the F-35. The many errors and omissions have led to a temporary low level of preparedness. It has also been very visible, since the planes that have all been delivered have had to be upgraded. This criticism is about to subside.


The main problem with the F-35 is that it is too expensive. Since 2012, the F-35's estimated cost over its 66-year life cycle has increased steadily, from $ 1.11 billion to $ 1.27 billion, despite attempts by the manufacturer to create the opposite impression.

Paradoxically, the F-35's superiority and unaffordable operating costs have probably contributed to the turbocharge development of drones. These have proven very effective in modern conflicts and are almost touchingly affordable, compared to the F-35.

The US Office of the Auditor General, GAO, recently reported that the estimated annual cost per aircraft must be reduced by 47 percent by 2036, because the cost will then be 4.4 billion dollars more than the estimated defense budget will withstand.


In the report presented on 22 April, GAO points out that savings of this magnitude are unusual in the production phase. The report concludes about the Ministry of Defense (DOD): "DOD is in danger of investing resources in a program that the department and the services ultimately cannot afford to operate."


This brings us to Norway, which has ordered 52 F-35s. The Norwegian authorities stand out in their lack of concern about the escalating costs. The Office of the Auditor General has been strangely absent in the evaluation of Norway's most expensive procurement ever.


The Ministry of Defense reported on GAO's report from 2019: «the cost estimates for the program as a whole have been fairly stable». In fact, the GAO report showed in detail how the costs associated with the development, purchase and operation of the F-35 had almost doubled.


At the time, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs acknowledged "the need to push these costs even further down". It is unclear what the word "yet" did in this sentence. On the whole, the Air Force often sounds more like sellers than buyers of the F-35.

The commander of the Air Force, Tonje Skinnarland, argues (April 10) that the F-35 is expensive and good. She is right about that. The question is whether we need as many as 52 aircraft when the operating cost per unit is so high. There are catastrophic savings in reducing the order, even with one flight.


Chief Luft seems far more certain than the US Office of the Auditor General that large reductions in operating and maintenance costs are expected. It is an old story, but it is always new: The Norwegian Armed Forces has a long history of buying expensive materiel that there is no budget to operate.


In Norwegian Defense History, volume 5, this is described as «if you have a piano, you get a cow». The Armed Forces introduced the cost control system Prinsix to break this trend. These graded reports are a place to start if the Storting wants to find out why our allies are steeling, but not Norway.
 

Cabatli_TR

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I am happy some European nations started to praise Turkish systems. The level of impression will be higher when Turkey reveal jet fighter drones equipped with AESA and AA/AG munitions. The new drones will be built over the confidence gained in last years so their export chances will be higher. Turkey actually wants to hide these kind of "operational" capabilities from the public attention but the last wars forced us to join them and use these systems (Combination of Jammers with swarm tactical drones). As a result, Turkey and Turkish forces destroyed enemies and finished the wars without using manned (some exceptions are available in Syria against Asad aircraft and helicopters) aircrafts in 3 different wars so Now, The Big European countries woke up and started taking precautions against these kind of drones. Now, Turkey is passing to another league by revealing big fighter drones and MALD-like smaller target and kamikaze drone systems mimicking the fighter aircrafts at front lines. In fact, Turkey is the first country that tested decoy drone technology to detect the SAM locations and strike on them in Karabakh war. Turkish forces converted old Soviet aircrafts to decoy drones and sent them to front lines. When these drones were shot down by Armenian forces, TB-2 suddenly appeared over them and released MAM-L.

Until 2025, Turkish skies will be dominated by one SEAD/DEAD ground supression figter drone, One air superiority jet drone and MALD-like jet decoy drones that is going to be dropped from other aerial platforms. In additions, IHA-SOJ and IHA-AEWC will support them from safe zones. Aksungur will be the long endurance drone of Navy while Akinci will be used as a bomber drone as its primary mission. Kargi will be the bonus of all these systems with its impressive range and swarm flight detect/strike capabilities.
 

Yasar_TR

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Russians are also praising the TB2 drones.
It says the TB2’s inflicted much more damage to Armenia than all the expensive and extensive Israeli weapons Azerbaijan bought, put together, without actually losing any in battle!
It also says, this could be the part of a battle concept that gives you a most dependable attack aircraft that can destroy enemy units!
 
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Glass🚬

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Is this an upcoming anka upgrade?

mg-1002.jpg

mg-0987.jpg

mg-1031.jpg

mg-1050.jpg
 

TheInsider

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ANKA payload capacity is increased to 350kg after the integration of PD-170 and a new improved wing design. Improved Anka can carry 2x MAM-T and 6x MAM-L or 2x Aselsan miniature bombs and 2x MAM-L. Aselsan miniature bomb is effective against hard targets like aircraft shelters and battlefield fortifications.
 

Fuzuli NL

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Turkish forces converted old Soviet aircrafts to decoy drones and sent them to front lines. When these drones were shot down by Armenian forces,
You mean it was Turks who converted the An-2s into unmanned decoy drones?
I remember reading (a tweet) it was the Azerbaijanis.
If true, that actually shows how Turkish defence industry promptly offers rapid and bespoke solutions depending on the situation.
This is not to be taken for granted.
 

Zafer

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ANKA payload capacity is increased to 350kg after the integration of PD-170 and a new improved wing design. Improved Anka can carry 2x MAM-T and 6x MAM-L or 2x Aselsan miniature bombs and 2x MAM-L. Aselsan miniature bomb is effective against hard targets like aircraft shelters and battlefield fortifications.
PD170 made a big upgrade on Anka over the PD155 but what does PD222 mean for Anka with higher take off power. I guess it will not make any difference as its high altitude performance is less than the PD170.
 

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