TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Quasar]

I am hoping to see an air refueling capability for KIZILELMA in the future as well. Even may be more, a KIZILELMA variant as a stealth Air refueling drone for MMU or for other KIZILELMAs who knows.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Before guessing whether MIUS can manage super cruise or not one should put on the table concrete points to support their claim.
@Combat-Master has ”suggested” that it could.
As explained above it has a lot to do with the
1. Airframe design
2. Thrust to weight ratio
3. Flight altitude.

Engine power is arbitrary. It differs according to the above parameters.
If the design is sleek and very low drag then you don’t need as much thrust.
If the air density is low and therefore air drag is low then you don’t need as much thrust.
If the conditions are met TF6000 could easily fly this bird at super cruise speeds.

 

[Agha Sher]

I am hoping to see an air refueling capability for KIZILELMA in the future as well.

A tanker version of MIUS would be awesome. Air refueling is important as the operational radius and airborne time of MIUS is constrained

 

[Siper>MMU]

If Kizilelma can reach high-subsonic speeds with 3,500lbf engine, what makes you think an increase of +180% is necessary for super cruise ?

Can L39 with AI25 reach supersonic speeds ? Also consider that Kızılelma is a 6ton aircraft unlike 3.5 ton L39.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Can L39 with AI25 reach supersonic speeds ? Also consider that Kızılelma is a 6ton aircraft unlike 3.5 ton L39.

Have you seen the shape of L39 Albatros?
It’s airframe is not designed to go supersonic.
It has a MTOW of 4700kg with an engine that maxes out at 3800lbf.
Please do not compare apples with pears.
We are discussing about a stealth plane with an airframe that will fly supersonic.

 

[Anmdt]

If Kizilelma can reach high-subsonic speeds with 3,500lbf engine, what makes you think an increase of +180% is necessary for super cruise ?

Carrier take-off requirements explain the stronger engine better.
TN wants this thing to take off without a catapult, with certain amount of payload. From a limited distance.

 

[Radonsider]

Have you seen the shape of L39 Albatros?
It’s airframe is not designed to go supersonic.
It has a MTOW of 4700kg with an engine that maxes out at 3800lbf.
Please do not compare apples with pears.
We are discussing about a stealth plane with an airframe that will fly supersonic.

We also should not forget that intakes exist

 

[Zafer]

Form drag is effected by velocity squared.
So, if you double speed from .6 mach to 1.2 mach you need 4 times the power, AFAIK.
For mach 1 you need 2.78 times the power.
Help yourself with the drag equation.

Drag equation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Parasitic drag - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Radonsider]

Form drag is effected by velocity squared.
So, if you double speed from .6 mach to 1.2 mach you need 4 times the power, AFAIK.
For mach 1 you need 2.78 times the power.
Help yourself with the drag equation.

Drag equation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Parasitic drag - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, cruise power of AI-25TLT has less thrust than TF-6000s power (~6000lbf) divided by 4, but airframe and intakes affect it a lot

 

[Oublious]

Lets summarise points, @selcukbayraktar should read defencehub forum at least a member should tag his twitteraccount .

- supercruise ability
- aerial refueling
- carriere take of with out catapult
- ?

 

[Bmx98]

Lets summarise points, @selcukbayraktar should read defencehub forum at least a member should tag his twitteraccount .

- supercruise ability
- aerial refueling
- carriere take of with out catapult
- ?

Yes, as he has nothing better to do. Lol common man, you are overestimating the importance of our little forum. That man literally sleeps at his job site, and has the weight of the hopes and aspirations if an entire nation weighing on him, I don't think he has time to waste reading forums. Plus i am more than sure that those points you mentioned have. already been thought and discussed thoroughly by him and his team, I don't think they rely on defence forums for ideas what to do LOL.

 

[Oublious]

Yes, as he has nothing better to do. Lol common man, you are overestimating the importance of our little forum. That man literally sleeps at his job site, and has the weight of the hopes and aspirations if an entire nation weighing on him, I don't think he has time to waste reading forums. Plus i am more than sure that those points you mentioned have. already been thought and discussed thoroughly by him and his team, I don't think they rely on defence forums for ideas what to do LOL.

you never now...

 

[AWP]

Yes, as he has nothing better to do. Lol common man, you are overestimating the importance of our little forum. That man literally sleeps at his job site, and has the weight of the hopes and aspirations if an entire nation weighing on him, I don't think he has time to waste reading forums. Plus i am more than sure that those points you mentioned have. already been thought and discussed thoroughly by him and his team, I don't think they rely on defence forums for ideas what to do LOL.

to your information , one of the members said that Gürcan Okumuş the ceo of tubitak sage do visit this forum . this was I think at IDEF 2021

 

[TheInsider]

Any idea what the RCS of MIUS will be?

Lower than Rafale and higher than F-35, or am I wrong?

Lower than both.

 

[TheInsider]

The RCS value of MIUS to be measured will be smaller than Rafale, even with current body shape, internal weapon load capability and composite material used extensively in the hull. It is certain that even more effective results will be obtained when the RAM paint developed (I think Turkish paint will be far better than Have Glass V. Aselsan is working on those paints since decades) is also applied for MIUS.

The RCS value of the F16 has been reduced from 5m2 to 1.2m2 with Have Glass-V paint.

The targeted RCS value for TfX is between 0.1m2 and 0.003m2, depending on the angle of the aircraft. I expect a similar RCS value for MIUS.

The RCS value specified for KFX is 0.5m2 in open sources. The Su-57 is claimed to be in the 0.5-0.1m2 range. The RCS value of F35 stated in open sources is 0.005m2 and F22 is 0.0001m2.

MIUS has a monocoque composite body. It means the body is a single piece without any rough surfaces. This improves stealth capability incredibly. Bodywise MIUS is second to none in terms of stealth. The only thing that will increase the RCS is the engine and Bayraktar buried it deep inside the body between a huge tail and vertical stabilizers.
MIUS is also a small fighter with a lighter MTOW. TFX is a huge fighter with an insane MTOW weight. It can be compared to either F-15 or F-22 in terms of size and MTOW.

 

[TheInsider]

Although i cannot directly say like Bora's statement that 10.000lbf is necessary , muis with ai25 is specificed at mach 0.6 which is not quite high subsonic. Mius with ai222 is expected to reach supersonic speeds but no mention of supercruise.
I am just thinking loudly that a muis with an single safran m88-2 engine could deliver supercruise kind of wonders.

Mach 0.6 is cruise speed. Max speed is Mach 0.85-0.90.

 

[MADDOG]

MILSAR Sythethic Aperture Radar was integrated onto Aksungur.

 

[Quasar]

would be not suprised in the furure if KIZILELMA exceeds mach 1 without using afterburning, if there will be such a requirement. Eventhough supercruise seems to be a new concept linked to 5 gen or 4 + , the concept has a long past, Among few others even old F 104 (13.000 kg MTOW) was exceeding mach 1 (mach 1.05) without using afterburning with J79 (10.000 Ibs dry thrust)

 

[Cenkcnk]

Can SAR radars be used against infantry targets? Can they detect that small targets like PKK cockroaches?

 

[Heartbang]

Can SAR radars be used against infantry targets? Can they detect that small targets like PKK cockroaches?

you dont need SAR radars to identify small targets like PKK cockroaches.
however, SAR radars are a godsend for IED detection, countering landmines, peeking inside suspicious hangars/caves and detecting submarines.