TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Steel]

I am confused about numbers. Last month Kotil said they delivered 29 ankas to army. From then, we saw 2 new ankas and 2 for tunisia. Then, it can be around 40 including protoypes or test uavs. 50 seems to be greater. Maybe kotil confused. We must have more than 31 ankas in army.

 

[Philips]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413169695142842371

Attack Unmanned Aerial Vehicle broke the altitude record of Turkish aviation history by reaching the highest altitude reached by a domestic and national aircraft.

AKINCI, which rose to an altitude of 38,039 feet (11,594 meters), remained in the air for 25 hours and 46 minutes.

 

[Test7]

thus, they achieved the altitude they claimed. Congratulations

 

[Sinan]

Guys, i was thinking . Is it possible for us to export Akıncı(due to MTCR) ?

The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.

Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Philips]

Guys, i was thinking . Is it possible for us to export Akıncı(due to MTCR) ?

The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.

Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here is your answer:

'The Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) is a multilateral export control regime. It is an informal political understanding'

It is not binding.

 

[Sinan]

Here is your answer:

'The Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) is a multilateral export control regime. It is an informal political understanding'

It is not binding.

Yeah, but there is a reason why we declare our missiles's range as 299 km. If you take notice, we have don't have missile or rocket which is above 300 km range.

So, you think that we might violate MTCR ?

 

[Philips]

Yeah, but there is a reason why we declare our missiles's range as 299 km. If you take notice, we have don't have missile or rocket which is above 300 km range.

So, you think that we might violate MTCR ?

As with almost everything in geopolitics, it depends on the circumstances.

 

[Sinan]

As with almost everything in geopolitics, it depends on the circumstances.

I don't think so. If you inspect the history of MTCR.


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Any more ideas, except breaking down MTCR ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Guys, i was thinking . Is it possible for us to export Akıncı(due to MTCR) ?

The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.

Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anka stays in the air no less than 30 hours. At a constant cruising speed of 200 km , that makes, 6000km. In other words a range of just about 3000km. We’ve sold them to Tunisia.

 

[Sinan]

Anka stays in the air no less than 30 hours. At a constant cruising speed of 200 km , that makes, 6000km. In other words a range of just about 3000km. We’ve sold them to Tunisia.

Anka's payload is less then 500 kg.

Look at UK's reapers or Chinese drones that have been sold in Middle East. They all have less then 500kg payload.

 

[KKF 2.0]

I don't think so. If you inspect the history of MTCR.


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Any more ideas, except breaking down MTCR ?

6. Is the MTCR a treaty?
No. The MTCR is not a treaty and does not impose any legally binding obligations on Partners (members). Rather, it is an informal political understanding among states that seek to limit the proliferation of missiles and missile technology.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) – MTCR

 

[Sinan]

6. Is the MTCR a treaty?
No. The MTCR is not a treaty and does not impose any legally binding obligations on Partners (members). Rather, it is an informal political understanding among states that seek to limit the proliferation of missiles and missile technology.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) – MTCR

Bro, i know. Just look at if MTCR has been broken all these decades.

I know, you want to get around MTCR but we should be logical. Even UN permanant security members strictly follow MTCR and almost no country broke MTCR until this day. Saying MTCR has no legal obligations so we can broke it to our hearts content.....sounds logical?

 

[comolokko]

Anka stays in the air no less than 30 hours. At a constant cruising speed of 200 km , that makes, 6000km. In other words a range of just about 3000km. We’ve sold them to Tunisia.

don't those who sell fighter jets violate the treaties? treaties are bullshit.

 

[Philip the Arab]

don't those who sell fighter jets violate the treaties? treaties are bullshit.

No, they have to be an unmanned system.

MTCR is more beneficial than harmful because it allows cooperation with MTCR states to develop systems with ranges past 300km which is very useful.

India for example is increasing the range significantly of Brahmos ever since they joined MTCR.

 

[KKF 2.0]

don't those who sell fighter jets violate the treaties? treaties are bullshit.

Good point. Fighter jets are deliberately not covered by this treaty and modern-day UAVs are considered as more similar to military airplanes than missiles.

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs: A Mismatch between Regulation and Technology Paola Sartori* 2017 marked the 30th anniversary of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), a voluntary arrangement established in 1987 by a group of seven countries.[1] Now counting 35 members, the...

www.iai.it

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs: A Mismatch between Regulation and Technology
Paola Sartori*

(...)

In the 1980s, when the regime was initially set up, this classification made sense. At the time, drones were generally designed for one-way missions, as targets for missile practice, or to perform short-range surveillance missions and had limited utility. Today, applying the same classification to missiles and UAVs ignores the important technological evolution of the latter.

In fact, the present-day generation of drones are more similar to aircrafts than missiles. UAVs are now recoverable platforms, which are able to perform increasingly sophisticated missions and have varied non-military uses, such as border control, search and rescue operations, infrastructure protection but also deployment within the agricultural sector.

The MTCR has not kept up with technological advancements and has fallen short in limiting the proliferation of UAVs and related technology, a process eased by the globalized economy.
(...)

 

[Sinan]

Good point. Fighter jets are deliberately not covered by this treaty and modern-day UAVs are considered as more similar to military airplanes than missiles.

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs: A Mismatch between Regulation and Technology Paola Sartori* 2017 marked the 30th anniversary of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), a voluntary arrangement established in 1987 by a group of seven countries.[1] Now counting 35 members, the...

www.iai.it

The Missile Technology Control Regime and UAVs: A Mismatch between Regulation and Technology
Paola Sartori*

(...)

In the 1980s, when the regime was initially set up, this classification made sense. At the time, drones were generally designed for one-way missions, as targets for missile practice, or to perform short-range surveillance missions and had limited utility. Today, applying the same classification to missiles and UAVs ignores the important technological evolution of the latter.

In fact, the present-day generation of drones are more similar to aircrafts than missiles. UAVs are now recoverable platforms, which are able to perform increasingly sophisticated missions and have varied non-military uses, such as border control, search and rescue operations, infrastructure protection but also deployment within the agricultural sector.

The MTCR has not kept up with technological advancements and has fallen short in limiting the proliferation of UAVs and related technology, a process eased by the globalized economy.
(...)

I was also thinking about that.

Let's say we build an unmanned 6th generation fighter jet. So, if we export it, we would still violating the MTCR. It doesn't add up. But when you look at other countries and how they export UCAVs, well they are not violating MTCR.

That said, there is not much UCAVs with 500kg payload (ammunition) in the market, to sell it in the first place.

 

[comolokko]

No, they have to be an unmanned system.

MTCR is more beneficial than harmful because it allows cooperation with MTCR states to develop systems with ranges past 300km which is very useful.

India for example is increasing the range significantly of Brahmos ever since they joined MTCR.

old treaties of the old world. ignore it anymore

 

[Nutuk]

MTCR was just an excuse for the US not to sell certain missiles to "partner / ally" countries

 

[Era_shield]

Guys, i was thinking . Is it possible for us to export Akıncı(due to MTCR) ?

The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a payload of 500 kg for a distance of 300 km.

Missile Technology Control Regime - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apparently it used to apply to UCAVs but the US loosened its interpretation of the treaty in 2020 to allow UCAVs if they have a max speed less than 800 km/h. Link. If Biden reverses these changes then they may become disallowed under the MTCR again.

 

[Era_shield]

Should be called "anti MAM-L cage":

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413104735930966019