Ukraine Crisis, Whose position is more justified? Russia or Nato?

[xizhimen]

Ukraine Crisis, Whose position is more justified? Russia or Nato?

Russia:

Nato:

 

[xizhimen]

In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.

Op-Ed: Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

Moscow solidified its hold on Crimea in April, outlawing the Tatar legislature that had opposed Russia’s annexation of the region since 2014.

www.latimes.com

 

[Ravenman]

22-02-2022

Note this date.

 

[xizhimen]

Just in:

Ukraine crisis: US rejects Russian demand to bar Ukraine from Nato​

January . 26 2022

The US has rejected Russia's demand to bar Ukraine from Nato, amid warnings Russia might invade its neighbour.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken was giving Russia a formal response to its demands to resolve the Ukraine crisis.

Mr Blinken gave no concessions but said that he was offering Russia "a serious diplomatic path forward, should Russia choose it".

A Russian minister said his country would study Mr Blinken's response, delivered in coordination with Nato.

Russia had issued a written list of its concerns about the expansion of the Nato military alliance and related security issues.

Among them was a demand for Nato to rule out the possibility of Ukraine and others ever joining the alliance.

Ukraine crisis: US rejects Russian demand to bar Ukraine from Nato

Russia says the response does not address its concerns about Nato, but "gives hope" over other issues.

www.bbc.com

 

[xizhimen]

Now it became very clear who really wants a war.

 

[McCool]

Yup, the promise is to the Soviets, not Russian federation. The Soviet empire had long collapse.


and its informal btw

 

[xizhimen]

China Backs Russia Against Ukraine, NATO​

BY JOHN FENG
ON 1/26/22 AT 11:21 AM EST

China has thrown its considerable political weight behind Russia in President Vladimir Putin's standoff with Ukraine, describing NATO as outdated and calling on the West to consider Moscow's "legitimate security concerns."

At a press briefing on Wednesday, China's state news service Xinhua asked Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian about remarks by Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, who said Russia's demand that the alliance not expand its membership was a "non-starter."

Speaking on January 10, after unsuccessful NATO-Russia Council talks in Geneva, Sherman said: "We will not allow anyone to slam closed NATO's open-door policy."

In Beijing, Zhao spoke disparagingly of the alliance as a "Cold War remnant."

He said: "As the world's largest military alliance, NATO should abandon the outdated Cold War mentality and ideological bias, and do things that are conducive to upholding peace and stability."

"China firmly opposes all kinds of small cliques," he added, before calling on parties to "fully consider each other's legitimate security concerns, avoid antagonism and confrontation, and properly address differences and disputes through equal consultation on the basis of mutual respect."

Beijing's decision to take a side publicly comes as some 100,000 Russian troops and heavy armor are massed on Ukraine's eastern border. Moscow says it does not intend to invade; Kyiv says Russia's current force posture is insufficient for a full-scale invasion.

China Backs Russia Against Ukraine, NATO

Earlier this month, President Xi Jinping told his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelensky, that Beijing and Kyiv shared deepening political trust.

www.newsweek.com

 

[xizhimen]

Yup, the promise is to the Soviets, not Russian federation. The Soviet empire had long collapse.


and its informal btw

So I guess China can renounce all the treaties China signed before PRC

 

[xizhimen]

and its informal btw

You mean they delibrately lied and tricked Russians? Just said some promise they never meant to keep?

 

[McCool]

You mean they delibrately lied and tricked Russians?

who cares.

NATO FTW

So I guess China can renounce all the treaties China signed before PRC

Yeah please do.

 

[xizhimen]

who cares.

NATO FTW

Yeah please do.

Ok, got it, at least we now know which way we should go in the future, might is right.

 

[McCool]

and guess who has more might ??

 

[xizhimen]

and guess who has more might ??

We'll see, my bet is on Russians this time, with China's support, I highly doubt if the west can stop Russia from taking over Ukraine. Ukraine has to pay for its stupidity, willingly serves as western cannon fodder.

 

[McCool]

We'll see, my bet is on Russians this time, with China's support, I highly doubt if the west can stop Russia from taking over Ukraine. Ukraine has to pay for its stupidity, willingly serves as western cannon fodder.

Off course you'll bet on both, who else ? lel

Neither do I doubt the Russians ability to take Ukraine, but at what cost ? If Russia invading Ukraine resulted in Russia getting weaker before the invasion, then why not ? Might want to remember how NATO supplied TOW ATGM decimated the once (on paper ) might Syrian army into irrelevance.

Ukraine is not short of manpower, the stream of NATO supplied munitions will ensure heavy attrition for the invading Russians.

Just as NATO has supplied Ukraine with munitions, US is equipping Taiwan with the needed munitions to defeat China in the other side of the world.

 

[xizhimen]

The situation now is much similar to what happened in Korean peninsula in 1950, China won't tolerate the enemy forces marching all the way to her doorway, neither will Russia.

 

[xizhimen]

Just as NATO has supplied Ukraine with munitions, US is equipping Taiwan with the needed munitions to defeat China in the other side of the world.

They can try to find out, but for now they don't even dare to recognize Taiwan's statehood, how about starting from there.

 

[McCool]

cope, you're surrounded

 

[xizhimen]

cope, you're surrounded

LoL, As we always are, this is exactly what bankrupts US and holds it back in the past 2 decades, China doesn't grow this fast and overtakes US in various sectors one after another for nothing.

Jimmy Carter: US 'Most Warlike Nation in History of the World' | Common Dreams

Former president says peaceful China 'ahead of us in almost every way.'

www.commondreams.org

 

[McCool]

LoL, As we always are, this is exactly what bankrupts US and holds it back in the past 2 decades, China doesn't grow this fast and overtakes US in various sectors one after another for nothing.

The US is already present and engaged worldwide, back when your China is still a backwater hellhole. it today still is the undisputed world champion while you're struggling to pass their GDP while being 4x larger.

So yeah, maybe you could sell your idea to whatever hole you came from.

 

[xizhimen]

The US is already present and engaged worldwide, back when your China is still a backwater hellhole. it today still is the undisputed world champion while you're struggling to pass their GDP while being 4x larger.

So yeah, maybe you could sell your idea to whatever hole you came from.

Lol, US used to be a shithole as well, it didn't get to today's position overnight, for the most part of the human history , China was the top tier civilizaiton while the land in today's US was a shithole. You can still live in your delusion but everyone with a sane mind can see US decline and China's rise today.