Oh it's that easy for you ? Putin at various times in history actually tried to join NATO, only to be turned back. You know the West might seems harmless at times, but that doesn't mean they're truly sincere. How many countries have the West collectively invaded after declaring the new world right after the end of the Cold War ? Iraq, Libya anyone ?
You are acting like a spineless inverte*ratae, what do you want ? Dead Ukrainians is not enough for you? Oh I see, you prefer to see them without their limbs because that satisfy you so much. The huge tols of Ukrainian dead doesn't bother you, rather you find it amusing that MIC shares are skyrocketing.
How do you think that would work? Make peace as soon as possible and this entire carnage would have stopped, the Ukrainians wanted to live a normal life, with the dignity a human being should have, they do not want to fear for their lives going to the grocery stores for fear that Zelensky meat collecting brigades might ambush them and dragged them inside a van to be sent to meat grinder at the front. They want to live in peace. How hard is it to make peace ?
While they die or even worse incapacitated for life, the Western MIC and Corporations are having the time of their lives, the huge NATO money laundering operations that is Ukraine finally gives the return they always wanted in the first place, they don't care if the average Vasilli is dead or wounded or taken prisoner, they're probably serving champagne for each other right now.
Just make peace, right now and this entire circus stopped. In the end, it's the Ukrainians that need to laugh and cherish, not Blackrock, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Monsanto, Lego etc.
Gary your reply here just shows you are a huge Putin fan boy.... i'm guessing you came across those pictures of him bare chested on horse back years ago which stirred something inside and you've been a huge fan ever since!
It also shows it is pointless trying to debate with you. You call me a ''spineless inverte*ratae'' (whatever that means) when its you that seems to think Ukraine should just surrender. If your country is ever invaded, it seems that unless you are certain of victory you would wave the white towel even sacrificing your heartlands and independence. Luckily for Ukraine their people are made of sterner stuff. No doubt in WW2 if you were British you would also have been recommending surrender while the battle of Britain still raged?
You mention Putin wanted to join Nato? You really think he was sincere? Where is your evidence for this? The only time this was ever mentioned was this supposed exchange =
'“Putin: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’
Robertson - a Nato leader at the time replied : ‘We don’t invite people to join Nato, countries have to apply to join’
Putin retorted ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That last sentence sums up Putin....that only a few countries actually matter in his world view. Are you Indonesian? Then I'm afraid in Putin's thinking your country is irrelevant in his mind and does not matter. He see's you are prey, unworthy of any time or consideration and would swallow your country up hole if he was willing and able to do it. Why on earth would you have such admiration for a man that see's your nation and your people in this way?
That is literally it. Nothing more than that. Really sounds like he was desperate to join doesn't it!!!
I dont want any more deaths, and certainly dont enjoy seeing Ukraine losses. But while Russia is losing many many more then i just don't understand why Ukraine would surrender. Also, i feel as the starter of this war then Russia has more if not all of the moral responsibility to start to offer peace terms that are somehow acceptable.
Putin (seemingly your hero) has made such a error of judgement with this war, and has embarrassed himself. The whole affair has shaken Russian peoples faith in him. I have many many Russian friends and acquaintances, and when they are able to speak freely they all, every single last one of them, criticise Putin and want him gone. Russia is such a great nation with such an amazing history, it is so so sad seeing how isolated they are, and how the terrible planning and conducting of the war so far has made them look very weak. It is astounding some of the things we have seen taking place in this war, but the most astounding thing is just how pathetic the conquest of land has been so far by Russia.
Your whole concept of surrender being a viable option for Ukraine shows you have no understanding. Can you explain to me how on earth Ukraine could believe that Russia would follow the terms of any peace treaty. How could Ukraine ever have any faith that Putin wouldn't simply re-arm, replan, replenish, and then grab some more land under some made up pretext in a few years time? Putin, more than any other world leader, has shown he cannot be trusted to honour any agreement.
Mark my words, this war will still be rumbling on 5 years from now. Ukraine will be devastated, but they will still be free, still be fighting, when Putin is assassinated or Russia simply collapses. Ukraine can handle 5 more years of conflict at its current intensity easily. Russia and its economy (and the morale of its fighting men) simply cannot, Most people with good insight into current Russian morale, and into the thinking of the important players in russian society and politics are agreed on this point. I am lucky that i spent many years in Russia and around Russian people and was able to make interesting connections with people from all parts of their society. It perhaps gives me access to the real thoughts and feelings of actual Russians. Its obvious from your posts that you lack this, which is the only thing that allows me to cut you some slack and forgive the ignorance of some of your posts.
Unfortunately i'm going to have to block you now it seems, which is a shame as i was hoping to understand how someone from a country like yours could be such a Putin worshipper, but it seems that you are either thinking irrationally, have some strange idolation of Putin, or worse are some kind of russian propagandist who is trying to be more clever than most with their posting. Either way i cant stand looking at any more of your posts, they are making my eyes bleed and my head hurt trying to understand your logic and i wont be able to keep pointing out how strange your views are which will only serve to spoil this forum thread and annoy other users.
and Britain 
are working on a deal in which Germany will send Taurus cruise missiles to Britain and in turn, Britain will send additional Storm Shadow cruise missiles to Ukraine. 
