Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Scott Summers]

It’s official now.

The Three Musqeteers are flying to Saudi Arabia now for talks with Russia:

1.- Steve Witkoff
2.- Mike Waltz
3.- Marco Rubio

Ukraine and Europe are NOT invited.

Say bye bye to all your money, time, weaponry and efforts. Europe could used all those billions for education, infrastructure, housing etc.

What a waste.

Top Trump administration officials to head to Saudi Arabia for Russia-Ukraine peace talks

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy indicated he hadn't been invited and warned that his country “will never accept deals made behind our backs.”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[blackjack]

 

[contricusc]

How would the war go on if Trump brokes a peace deal between Zelensky and Putin?

Trump can’t broker a peace deal without Zelensky, and Zelensky doesn’t seem to be interested in a negotiation without European involvment.

Trump can do a clown deal with Putin, but without Ukraine and Europe on board the deal is meaningless and the war will grind on,

Since Trump already sidelined Europe from his “peace” negotiations, he won’t be able to achieve anything. Europe will continue to support Ukraine, which will continue to fight dispite any new Molotov–Ribbentrop pact between Putin and Trump on how to divide Europe.

 

[Anastasius]

Trump is fairly open about wanting Russia and India on America's side to fight China, problem is that he's going about it in the most moronic way possible thus far and neither of those countries particularly like the US and want to use it and discard it at best. I'm actually surprised there's not more light shed on Chinese vs. Indian diaspora fighting for influence in American politics.

Zelensky has a Israeli passport, he is a Ukrainian jew. These people are in the end more loyal to Israel.

No he doesn't. Where the hell did you get this from? Closest I found was him submitting a proposal allowing Ukrainian diaspora to get Ukrainian citizenship while also having citizenship in another country.

 

[Tabmachine]

Trump is fairly open about wanting Russia and India on America's side to fight China, problem is that he's going about it in the most moronic way possible thus far and neither of those countries particularly like the US and want to use it and discard it at best. I'm actually surprised there's not more light shed on Chinese vs. Indian diaspora fighting for influence in American politics.

No he doesn't. Where the hell did you get this from? Closest I found was him submitting a proposal allowing Ukrainian diaspora to get Ukrainian citizenship while also having citizenship in another country.

The mainland chinese diaspora for the most part dont openly engage in that kind of lobbying. The politically active chinese diaspora I observe mostly tend to be liberals or taiwanese, and it would hardly make sense for them to be advocating for the Chinese state (directly).

Indians don't come from one of the boogey-man countries so they are free to do their lobbying.

I mean if you're mainland diaspora, you're probably thinking the politics around china is so heated up, and so unanimous, that shit could go belly-up to Mccarthyism in no time. Better to make your oodles of money and lay low.

 

[Tabmachine]

Zelensky may not be an Israeli citizen. He could become one in no time though and the American government by law would financially support the process (as they do for all jews "returning" to Israel irrespective of origin).

I suppose its only a coincidence that Zelensky is installed by the Americans as the head of Ukraines government, to oversee a war in which Ukraine only loses territory, and piles of men, and indebts itself to firms like Blackrock. While the only non-damaging effect to any country under the American umbrella is the ultimate retrenchment of of Russia and Iran in Syria and Israels acquisition of advanced positions on Mt. Hernon.

Trump can’t broker a peace deal without Zelensky, and Zelensky doesn’t seem to be interested in a negotiation without European involvment.

Trump can do a clown deal with Putin, but without Ukraine and Europe on board the deal is meaningless and the war will grind on,

Since Trump already sidelined Europe from his “peace” negotiations, he won’t be able to achieve anything. Europe will continue to support Ukraine, which will continue to fight dispite any new Molotov–Ribbentrop pact between Putin and Trump on how to divide Europe.

The same Europe which has failed to exhibit strategic coherence for almost all major issues in the past two decades, and has deferred its security costs to Washington until now, will become the guarantor of Ukraines security? The current Ukrainian political project is entirely the work of the Americans. Plenty of leaked information at this point paints the picture of the careful engineering of Ukraine politics from the Euromaidan onwards, and probably groundwork before then as well.

The security elite of Europe got their gravy train, they are going to have to accept that the laundering op is now over and its time to maybe get some real jobs....perhaps securing their countries. They were passengers on this ride from the beginning, and there is no established precedent that they could take over the operation without Americas support, and even less that they can do so with Americas opposition.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1890705175662166061

 

[contricusc]

Trump is fairly open about wanting Russia and India on America's side to fight China, problem is that he's going about it in the most moronic way possible thus far and neither of those countries particularly like the US

Because of his moronic ways, he may end up losing his strongest ally (Europe), which could find in China a natural ally against the common threat from the US and Russia.

China + EU vs US + Russia would be pretty evenly matched,

China and Europe are the centers of power of the old world, while the US and Russia are natural allies in the sense that they are generally warmongering and uneducated countries.

Also, China poses no threat to Europe, and Europe poses no threat to China, so an alliance would make a lot of sense, considering Trump’s behavior.

 

[blackjack]

The reason this news is hilarious because I expected the baltics and poland to make such statements 1st lol.

 

[Soldier30]

The Russian Tigers unit, which uses FPV drones controlled via fiber optic cable, has released footage of an attack on a Ukrainian military convoy in the Kursk region of Russia. The convoy includes a German-made Leopard 2A6 tank, a Russian-made Kamaz truck, and presumably an American-made Humvee armored vehicle. No drones were used for surveillance, so the extent of damage to the military equipment is unclear. The exact location of the footage has not been reported.

 

[Sanchez]

Trump can’t broker a peace deal without Zelensky, and Zelensky doesn’t seem to be interested in a negotiation without European involvment.

I don't know about that. He's going to Turkey instead the same day Rubio is meeting Lavrov.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891475276967616639

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891406970378125697

 

[Spitfire9]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891406970378125697

Any reason for Turkiye to participate in talks?

 

[Sanchez]

Any reason for Turkiye to participate in talks?

There's no Ukrainian security without Turkey and no peace can hold without Turkish backing. There was a reason why Zelensky specifically wanted Turkey to be a guarantor, why first and only talks were held in Istanbul and why Turkey and US would together undertake Kharkiv's rebuilding after the war had ended. Sadly after 3 years Ukraine is currently at a far worse situation and the conditions that will be presented in the following weeks will also be far worse than Istanbul 2022.

"The Ukrainian president's visit to Saudi Arabia will coincide with the U.S.-Russia talks on ending the war in Ukraine, which will take place in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Zelensky said that Ukraine would not participate in these talks.

"Ukraine knew nothing about it. And Ukraine considers any negotiations on Ukraine without Ukraine (as such) to be futile," Zelensky said during a press briefing in the United Arabic Emirates."

Zelensky to visit Turkey, Saudi Arabia in coming days, media reports

The Ukrainian president's visit coincides with the U.S.-Russia talks on ending the war in Ukraine, which will take place in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

kyivindependent.com

He was originally to visit UAE, Saudi and then Turkey with his wife. Timelines now changed.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Any reason for Turkiye to participate in talks?

every reason, arguably more reasons then most so called allies who initially threw Ukraine under the bus in the early days. Only to see Turkish drones wrecking havoc and destroying Putins 3 day plans. Who could forget how those drones crushed that 40 mile convoys ability to move.

I get british media is dog shit, it will never report anything accurately or honestly especially when it concerns the Turks. But come on dude you browse this forum.

its also worth pointing out that after Ukraine the nation whose combatted russia the most has been Turkiye, rolled em back in the caucuses. removed them from syria, stopped them along with their french allies from conquering libya.

But yeah what reason for Turkiye to participate. You see British media has the english beliving that Turkiye is a strong allie of Russia, hilarious but unfortunate. Pure lies, pure anglo-saxon stype propaganda.

Also looking forward 10 to 20 years down the line, Ukraine will need a strong Turkish allie to counter Russia. Since we saw time and time again how nations like germany were willing to throw ukraine under the bus for personal benefit like cheap gas. Likewise Ukraine becomes critical to Turkish security in the region.

 

[Lool]

I agree that Ukraine is losing on the ground but you do not address my observation that Russia has taken 3 years to occupy about 10% of Ukraine.

It seems that you didnt notice that nearly all of the gains I have mentioned have pccured within the last 6 months. In other words, there is a trend that shows a massive accelleration in the rate of Russian gains which is also co-inciding with the extreme manpower shortages Ukraine faces.

Russian inflation at an all time low? I suggest you listen to V Putin. He thinks that inflation is a problem. Would he say that if it was at an all time low? My economic data source predicts it will continue rising this month.

Bro, inflation in Russia is at 10% while in Ukraine is at 13%
Essential items for living in Russia is available at cheap prices; yes, some items have soared but basic commodities are dirt cheap in Russia like bread, rice, and eggs for example

I have an interest in economics. Russia stopped releasing most data about its economy, making it very difficult to assess how it is doing. However the data that can be pieced together suggests that things are bad in the Russian economy. Same for Russian government finances. What cannot be hidden is the bank base rate and that is the highest it has been for decades.

Yes, there is corruption in Ukraine. It infects Russia from top to bottom, though, I think.

The only thing I can tell you is that if Ukraine's corruption was less than Russia's, then they would have won the war long ago; if not at least pushed them back on many frontlines

The population of Russia has dropped since the war started. Several hundred thousand left the country to avoid conscription in 2022. Many went to Ukraine to die. Population has fallen by a million plus according to the sources I read. In a country with an ageing population and low birth rate, how much do you think deaths exceed births each year?

Dropped?
Bro, the areas that Russia took control over has millions of people in populations and you are worried about a couple of hundred thousand? Moreover, there are some reports that those who escaped from Russian controlled cities are returning back to their homes, even if it is under Russian control, due to lack of work, and sources of living in other Ukrainian cities. Moreover, those hundreds of thousands of russians will return after the war while the filthy rich of Ukraine wont return to a nation that is semi-destroyed with vultures roaming here and there waiting to prey on them

 

[Soldier30]

The use of FPV drones controlled via fiber optic cable was demonstrated by the 155th Separate Guards Brigade of the Russian Marine Corps. The servicemen showed episodes of using drones on their section of the front in the Kursk region of Russia. Judging by the video, the unit mainly attacked Ukrainian M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA IFVs with drones. The video also shows a French-made VAB armored personnel carrier, a Humvee armored vehicle, and an American-made M777 howitzer. The M2A2 Bradley IFVs are equipped with the Ukrainian version of the Mangal mesh protection. Surveillance drones were not used in the attacks. The official report states that five Ukrainian M2A2 Bradley ODS-SA IFVs were destroyed.

 

[blackjack]

You know you fucked up if Poland with a bigger army than yours (UK) and hates Russia in 2nd place behind Ukraine is being more rational.

every reason, arguably more reasons then most so called allies who initially threw Ukraine under the bus in the early days. Only to see Turkish drones wrecking havoc and destroying Putins 3 day plans. Who could forget how those drones crushed that 40 mile convoys ability to move.

3 day plan myth came from a US general's remarks but they highlighted it as Russian for whatever reason. I dont see Turkish drones wrecking havoc but I do see lancets and vandal fiber optic drones doing that instead. Doesn't Motor Sich supply some of the engines to Turkiye's drones and they recently got their locations blown up in Ukraine?

its also worth pointing out that after Ukraine the nation whose combatted russia the most has been Turkiye, rolled em back in the caucuses. removed them from syria, stopped them along with their french allies from conquering libya.

I think agreements have been made or else the new Syrian government wouldn't be entertaining the idea of talks of still trying to keep the Russians around all over the news. If anything, Turkiye got itself in a proxy war in syria with israel.

But yeah what reason for Turkiye to participate. You see British media has the english beliving that Turkiye is a strong allie of Russia, hilarious but unfortunate. Pure lies, pure anglo-saxon stype propaganda.

Well Turkiye did host Russia and Ukraine's peace agreement until boris johnson(who openly disrespected Erdogan before) went and fucked up the deal. Now Ukraine can't take back the millions of lives that they have lost with the peace agreements looking no different than they were introduced as before.

Also looking forward 10 to 20 years down the line, Ukraine will need a strong Turkish allie to counter Russia. Since we saw time and time again how nations like germany were willing to throw ukraine under the bus for personal benefit like cheap gas. Likewise Ukraine becomes critical to Turkish security in the region.

I dont there is a turk in this forum that loves the EU here more than you with Ukroturk as a distant 2nd but I have not seen him around here lately to my surprise.

 

[blackjack]

The politicians had to do some Epstein kind of shit in Ukraine they don't want leaked out.

 

[Spitfire9]

View attachment 73634
The politicians had to do some Epstein kind of shit in Ukraine they don't want leaked out.

700 billion euros is a lot of money but it may be a wise investment if it avoids further attacks by Putin on neighbouring countries. I think that cheaper would be to tighten sanctions, increase weapons supply to Ukraine and let Putin continue steering Russia towards long term economic contraction.

 

[blackjack]

Talks of visas.


Germany is joining Poland.

 

[TR_123456]

Any reason for Turkiye to participate in talks?

It doesnt have to but it will probably be dragged into it.
See,Ukraine finally found out what the real reason was for the so called ''help'' to defeat the Russians.
Realisticly Ukraine couldnt and never can defeat Russia with the weapons it got from the West,they knew it the US knew it,everbody knew it.
If you have to ask if you can use the weapons to attack Russia in Russia wtf kinda help is that?
Another indication they are afraid of Russia while Russia never intends to go further then Ukraine.
Europe has become a chickenshit entity,woke this green energy that peace this and sanctions that blah blah blah.
I have said this before and saying this again,sanction wont do shit to Russia,you keep saying that the sanctions hurt Russia,yes they did to some extent but it cant cripple Russia.
Russian people can live with just bread and water for a looong time,just Ukrainians and Turks can,Europe cant which is why they think Russia would give up because of these sanction,its pipe dream.
Europe needs to wake up to reality.
In geopolitics Europe is nothing.