Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[FiReFTW]

Its not that easy,Trump sees it as a business opportunity which is not how geopolitics works.
For Ukraine it is existential to get the territories back,fo Russia to keep them.
So,how do you want to end it if both sides cant compromise?

Lets say Trump makes a deal with Putin,

Russia keeps all it has and the war ends.
How can Ukraine and the EU accept this?

Come up with a solution.

Simply they have to accept it because there is no way they will ever get that land back, can you seriously tell me how Ukraine is going to get that land back realistically, tell me one realistic scenario where that is possible? Its just not.

So either they stop now and try to negotiate something which means security guarantees for Ukraine, lasting peace, 0 chance Russia ever attacks Ukraine, no more war, no more hundreds and thousands of young Ukranians dying daily, no more war and suffering, no more Europe being closed off from Russia economically, or sending billions of euros away from tax payer money.

Or..... they keep going, now without any US support at all it seems, no aid, no military weapons, no intelligence nothing.. so Ukraine will keep loosing land, will keep loosing thousands and thousands of young men, generations wiped out, Europe will keep suffering economically by sending even more billions of euros away, by being completely shut from Russia and even more now if they get shut from the US

Whats better and smarter for Europe? Come now... its not that hard to figure out.

 

[FiReFTW]

I don't think war ends when you capitulate on Ukraine. ill tell you what i think could happen. 1st you will empower Russia, sooner rather then later she will start a new war. 2nd. The Europeans thinking they lost American protection will start to divide among themselves. France and Germany will look to suck up to Russia. Countries like Poland the UK will this as a threat. You will see alliances forming within Europe to counter each other, let alone Russia. The EU project will probably die under such a situation. Potentially old wounds among Europes states will resurface and small sporadic conflicts may take place that could lead to bigger situations. Maybe europe returns to how she operated previous to the american enforced status.

However so far everything is just talk, lets see if the Trump admin works to reduce American influence in the world. Also i don't think 4 years will be enough to undo the american project even if the Trump admin desperately wants too.

How is it capitulating its ending the war which kills thousands and thousands of young ukranian men, and if it keeps up they will soon crumble. Read my post above, whats better for Europe?

Also how will you empower Russia, start what war? With who? lol... it won't ever start a war against a NATO country so theres hardly much left, also a peace deal that would be made could add certain things into it, like aggressive action against an european country will result in blabla consequences etc...

 

[GoatsMilk]

How is it capitulating its ending the war which kills thousands and thousands of young ukranian men, and if it keeps up they will soon crumble. Read my post above, whats better for Europe?

Also how will you empower Russia, start what war? With who? lol... it won't ever start a war against a NATO country so theres hardly much left, also a peace deal that would be made could add certain things into it, like aggressive action against an european country will result in blabla consequences etc...

Russia isnt going to enter some kind of peace mode over Ukraine. They will look to expand into eastern europe, central asia, caucases, africa and the middle east. If they can take it, they will. That is how they think and operate. Any deal they can break, they will.

Turkiye had modern dealings with putin, not in one place did he stick to any agreements. All that mattered was having the force to remove him or stop him.

Infact if america does capitulate to Russia, the Russians will show it as the americans being pussies.

 

[mehmed beg]

very naïve. Russia isnt going to enter some kind of peace mode over Ukraine. They will look to expand into eastern europe, central asia, caucases, africa and the middle east. If they can take it, they will. That is how they think and operate. Any deal they can break, they will.

Turkiye had modern dealings with putin, not in one place did he stick to any agreements. All that mattered was having the force to remove him or stop him.

Mate , this guy is Russian not Swiss. Usual flisculas and whatabiutism.
Anyway I loveed when Zelensky said to Amit Vishnu Vance " Fuck you bitch".
Oh yes if someone wants people to live than don't shoot at them, as simple as that. Or can keep troops in defensive posture, no? Very simple.
Frankly what to say the pooper left While House and a common pimp is in charge.
What people
Now it is obvious that Russia is in this for money and killing the prisoners like in any other conflict.
That story about NATO etc , bio weapons, Nazis has always been nonesense.
Anyway Black Jack , now free Doritos and Champions League for free , after all that is the dream for a bum from Kaluga

 

[GoatsMilk]

Mate , this guy is Russian not Swiss. Usual flisculas and whatabiutism.
Anyway I loveed when Zelensky said to Amit Vishnu Vance " Fuck you bitch".
Oh yes if someone wants people to live than don't shoot at them, as simple as that. Or can keep troops in defensive posture, no? Very simple.
Frankly what to say the pooper left While House and a comm

Vance does come across as a right c*ck sucker degenerate clown.

 

[FiReFTW]

very naïve. Russia isnt going to enter some kind of peace mode over Ukraine. They will look to expand into eastern europe, central asia, caucases, africa and the middle east. If they can take it, they will. That is how they think and operate. Any deal they can break, they will.

Turkiye had modern dealings with putin, not in one place did he stick to any agreements. All that mattered was having the force to remove him or stop him.

Infact if america does capitulate to Russia, the Russians will show it as the americans being pussies.

Don't give me some blank statements, tell me specific countries, what countries in Europe is Russia going to expand into in your opinion?

 

[FiReFTW]

Mate , this guy is Russian not Swiss. Usual flisculas and whatabiutism.
Anyway I loveed when Zelensky said to Amit Vishnu Vance " Fuck you bitch".
Oh yes if someone wants people to live than don't shoot at them, as simple as that. Or can keep troops in defensive posture, no? Very simple.
Frankly what to say the pooper left While House and a comm

And you are Ukranian.
What a childish and ignorant statement... oh someone doesn't agree with me, he must be x thing... how about you grow up?

 

[TR_123456]

So either they stop now and try to negotiate something which means security guarantees for Ukraine, lasting peace, 0 chance Russia ever attacks Ukraine, no more war, no more hundreds and thousands of young Ukranians dying daily, no more war and suffering, no more Europe being closed off from Russia economically, or sending billions of euros away from tax payer money.

They did have a deal with guarantees after Russia took Crimea but you have see what happened.

Or..... they keep going, now without any US support at all it seems, no aid, no military weapons, no intelligence nothing.. so Ukraine will keep loosing land, will keep loosing thousands and thousands of young men, generations wiped out, Europe will keep suffering economically by sending even more billions of euros away, by being completely shut from Russia and even more now if they get shut from the US

You keep talking about economic losses,this isnt about money.
But i understand your stance,you never had to fight for your existence you wouldnt understand.

Whats better and smarter for Europe? Come now... its not that hard to figure out.

We are beyond ''smarter'',there is no more going back from this point on.
If they capitulate its over,nobody will take the EU serious anymore,Russia could later decide to take all of Europe or at least the former soviet states.
So forget ''smarter'',the EU has to support Ukraine it is a must.
You will see them all joining to form a unity standing with Ukraine.
Will it matter,i dont know we will have to wait and see.

 

[FiReFTW]

They did have a deal with guarantees after Russia took Crimea but you have see what happened.

You keep talking about economic losses,this isnt about money.
But i understand your stance,you never had to fight for your existence you wouldnt understand.



We are beyond ''smarter'',there is no more going back from this point on.
If the capitulate its over,nobody will take the EU serious anymore,Russia could later decide to take all of Europe or at least the former soviet states.
So forget ''smarter'',the EU has to support Ukraine it is a must.
You will see them all joining to form a unity standing with Ukraine.
Will it matter,i dont know we will have to wait and see.

You live in Europe yet you don't care about the European economy suffering, how sad, because of people thinking like you Europe is in this situation it is now ( and im not only talking about the Ukranian war but a host of other issues we have ).

Where is the patriotism? Its sorely missing from so many people here, so called Europeans.

There is no european country that Russia can take, name me 3, I dare you.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Don't give me some blank statements, tell me specific countries, what countries in Europe is Russia going to expand into in your opinion?

in general I don't engage with Russians, its a waste of time and i trust in what mehmed said. His behaviour and position has always been consistent and consistant across forums. Nothing personal. There is a Russian mod on here, i added him to ignore almost on day one. I know how they think and how they behave, its not something i waste time with.

 

[TR_123456]

You live in Europe yet you don't care about the European economy suffering, how sad, because of people thinking like you Europe is in this situation it is now ( and im not only talking about the Ukranian war but a host of other issues we have ).

What dont you get?
It is not about economy in Europe when it comes to Ukraine,it is about honour, pride,name.
The other issues are refugees,im against them.


Let me explain this again.

Every Western European country supports Ukraine militarily and politicly,no question about it.
What people like you and i think is irrelevant,do you understand?

 

[TR_123456]

Where is the patriotism? Its sorely missing from so many people here, so called Europeans.

This is patriotism,helping Ukraine.

There is no european country that Russia can take, name me 3, I dare you.

The Baltics thats 3 countries,Moldova,Georgia,Slovakia,Romania for starters.

 

[FiReFTW]

What dont you get?
It is not about economy in Europe when it comes to Ukraine,it is about honour, pride,name.
The other issues are refugees,im against them.


Let me explain this again.

Every Western European country supports Ukraine militarily and politicly,no question about it.
What people like you and i think is irrelevant,do you understand?

Only the European politicians support it (apart from a few like hungary, slovakia etc), but go check polls on what regular people think, most are for PEACE and END OF WAR, and against continued military support and pouring billions of euros into this war, now we can disagree on things but these are just facts, most regular people think just like me.

 

[FiReFTW]

This is patriotism,helping Ukraine.


The Baltics thats 3 countries,Moldova,Georgia,Slovakia,Romania for starters.

Most of the countries you named are in NATO, if you seriously think Russia would start a war with a NATO country I don't even know why im bothering talking to you, anyone who claims that has a screw lose.

 

[TR_123456]

Most of the countries you named are in NATO, if you seriously think Russia would start a war with a NATO country I don't even know why im bothering talking to you, anyone who claims that has a screw lose.

Yes i have some lose srews.

What is NATO without the US?
You always have this pessimistic approach,have you ever made a possitive comment in your life?
Look,you have no clue what geopolitics is,no clue about patriotism,honour,pride etc.
For you everything is economics.
If you want to talk about geopolitics you have to at least have some knowledge about it.
Dont lecture people about things you know nothing of.
Just observe and learn.
No need to comment any further,no use in conversing with you.

 

[contricusc]

Most of the countries you named are in NATO, if you seriously think Russia would start a war with a NATO country I don't even know why im bothering talking to you, anyone who claims that has a screw lose.

After all the developments since Trump got elected, do you still think NATO means anything? Are you that naïve?

Trump would side with Putin if he goes against the Baltics, just like he is siding with Putin against Ukraine. NATO is dead. Europe should simply expel the US form NATO and form their own alliance, because NATO means nothing now.

This US administration betrayed its allies. It threatens Canada and Denmark, and it sides with Russia. What else do you need to see to understand that Europe is alone, and that the US is not our friend?

 

[FiReFTW]

Yes i have some lose srews.

What is NATO without the US?
You always have this pessimistic approach,have you ever made a possitive comment in your life?
Look,you have no clue what geopolitics is,no clue about patriotism,honour,pride etc.
For you everything is economics.
If you want to talk about geopolitics you have to at least have some knowledge about it.
Dont lecture people about things you know nothing of.
Just observe and learn.
No need to comment any further,no use in conversing with you.

I have no clue about patriotism, honour and pride? I think I have more patriotism than most of the posters here because I actually care about my country and about Europe and the western world, something I can't really say about most people here.

 

[FiReFTW]

After all the developments since Trump got elected, do you still think NATO means anything? Are you that naïve?

Trump would side with Putin if he goes against the Baltics, just like he is siding with Putin against Ukraine. NATO is dead. Europe should simply expel the US form NATO and form their own alliance, because NATO means nothing now.

This US administration betrayed its allies. It threatens Canada and Denmark, and it sides with Russia. What else do you need to see to understand that Europe is alone, and that the US is not our friend?

Thats absolutely crazy, Trump has stated many times he is on the side of Europe and that he believes in article 5. He is not siding with Putin nor is he threatening anyone.

In a hypothetic scenario where Russia would attack the baltics, you can't be serious to think that the US would side with Russia, thats crazy talk sorry.

His statements about Canada being a 51th state and stuff like that is pretty silly, I don't take him seriously, and im no fan of Trump he has quite a lot of issues, but I happen to agree with him regarding Ukraine.

 

[Huelague]

I advise all people here to read what exactly Art.5 of NATO statutes means and how it works.
If you think, an attack of a NATO member means a full out war by whole NATO members against the aggressor, is absolutely wrong.

 

[Huelague]

So what your saying is you are racist? You added someone on this forum on ignore just because of their nationality, that is what you are saying here right?

We can understand what your problem is. As a non-NATO and EU member, you really don’t care other nations or peoples fears and hardships. As a nation of “War Profiteers”, you always care the economically side of a war. And as a nation of “ Neutrality”, you can ‘pick up sides’ (interests) without involving in the conflict. Sometimes, neutrality means cowardice.