Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

HellFireIndo

Committed member
Messages
284
Reactions
358
he's behind 3 periode precidency, kind an abuse of power, just like Suharto at begining, a capable person at the end of orde lama, who become corrupt after somewhile, if he is a 'moslem' like suharto, i doubt he's need jokowi in power, he will be R1 by himself
Luhut said he's against Orba, yet did every single thing that Orba and Dwifungsi ABRI stand for. I suppose Dwifungsi's ideology and its' benefits are simply too lucrative for him to ignore. Dwifungsi is cursed, military personnel back then were indoctrinated and prepared to take positions in civil administration and business, rather than training for combat. Luhut is the purest manifestation of how the end-product of Orba era doctrine is supposed to look like. Yet this mentality shouldn't be around in the reformation era, but here we are.

I did not analyze that deep into Perundang-Undangan stuff, so its nice to hear from someone who is educated in that field, I Apreciate that.

so what do you think, do you have any solution for that?
We can start by making the ministers do things that are given to them legally and bureaucratically, and operate within the limits of their tupoksi. That way the government will be balanced, and each minister and their ministry can maximize their role in accordance with what is assigned to them, and focus on developing capability in that direction alone.

Menteri Koordinator for example, there are four of them, handling Political Affairs, Maritime Affairs, Economic Affairs, and Human Affairs. The fact that there are four of them, to begin with, indicates that this coordinating job shouldn't be concentrated on a single person. The idea is to alleviate the burden on the individual President and to distribute them across "themes" (bidang), so that a specialist on that subject can just concentrate on what they are good at, political expert for Menko Polhukam, and economic expert for Menko Perkonomian.

But Luhut simply doesn't give a sht about tupoksi, even less regulation. Initially, he was Menko Polhukam, but then he left, probably because the place doesn't allow for economic exploits? Luhut was educated in public-policy related degree in the US. I am familiar with them; they are really biased toward generalist economic/ development-policy kind of education, not purely political science but also not pure economics either. This is probably why Luhut went like "fck this sht" because back then the Menko position didn't suit his taste, and then he just move to Kemaritiman instead.

Why Kemaritiman? because Kemaritiman was a relatively new ministry, and thus he can control it as he wish. That is why they change it into "Kemaritiman dan Investasi", like what does maritime affairs have anything to do with investment? That stuff is supposed to be handled by Menko Ekonomi. The only logical reason is that it was changed to suit Luhut's interest and skill, so the Kementerian follows the boss, rather than the opposite. That is why the ministries coordinated by Marves are completely arbitrary, many have nothing to do with Maritime things at all.

The conclusion is, that Luhut behaves in the manner of Orba era conduct, he simply sees regulation as something to justify what he did, rather than something to be followed. When regulation and authority of a position don't suit his interest, he changes them arbitrarily. He treats government offices in the manner of Swasta, in which tupoksi is arbitrary and positions are based on political and economic influence rather than rational-legal arrangement. This makes him act more like a businessman which is authority made up entirely just because he can, thus inclining him to seek a profit also like businessmen. So we must make regulation means sht and should be followed, including by Luhut. While also empowering other ministers so that they are not just plonga-plongo because Luhut took all of the initiatives.
 

this is crunch

Contributor
Messages
657
Reactions
4 633
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
We can start by making the ministers do things that are given to them legally and bureaucratically, and operate within the limits of their tupoksi. That way the government will be balanced, and each minister and their ministry can maximize their role in accordance with what is assigned to them, and focus on developing capability in that direction alone.
Agree, The Ministry should be well regulated and operated within their territory only, but still he holds the power in this current administration, there could be no way to immediately fix this issue in accordance to yours in the near time, jkw reshuffle's wouldn't touch LBP i assume.

But after 2024 election, will there be another Prime Minister LBP, or will Menko Marves still even exist? let's wait for that
 

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,090
Reactions
4 1,239
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Without an amandement ..... All of these 3rd periode throws away are all nothing but a hot air/distraction from the core issues .....
Yet , some peoples are still baited all along regardless the experiences
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Cuma bumbu dan drama politik baik dari Lawan politik pemerintahan sekarang maupun dari sekutunya,

Yang tahu konstitusi bakalan paham kalau proses perubahan dan pembuatan UU dari draft RUU itu makan waktu, baik negosiasi dan pembahasan. Lagian DPR, MPR, MK ga bakalan nembusin itu wacana tiga periode. Dan juga pemerintah ga ada sama sekali ngajuin draft RUU untuk presiden bisa dipilih tiga periode.
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,383
Reactions
5 5,211
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Screenshot_20220403-123520_Instagram.jpg


 

HellFireIndo

Committed member
Messages
284
Reactions
358
Without an amandement ..... All of these 3rd periode throws away are all nothing but a hot air/distraction from the core issues .....
Yet , some peoples are still baited all along regardless the experiences
Cuma bumbu dan drama politik baik dari Lawan politik pemerintahan sekarang maupun dari sekutunya,

Yang tahu konstitusi bakalan paham kalau proses perubahan dan pembuatan UU dari draft RUU itu makan waktu, baik negosiasi dan pembahasan. Lagian DPR, MPR, MK ga bakalan nembusin itu wacana tiga periode. Dan juga pemerintah ga ada sama sekali ngajuin draft RUU untuk presiden bisa dipilih tiga periode.
That's why Luhut went too far with this. He knows amending that sht is not a realistic expectation, with no urgency whatsoever. So why makes the 3 periode show to begin with? Moreover, he arrange all of that and said one-sided statements that President will do this and do that, so he basically can order the President around then? Who's the real President here? He was involved in penundaan pemilu proposal, and now 3 periode shenanigans, what the heck is wrong with this guy?

We are talking about the perspective of the executive branch alone, and it seems like the Luhut guy is even more interested in this controversial stuff than even the President. But the fact that the issue already mencuat, meaning he really wants it. It's not the opposition who did bait or anything, it's Luhut himself who proposed this stuff. I mean the opposition is weak now, you know yourself that the biggest most chonky opposition out there is now your Menhan, there is no opposition to speak of in this issue.

That is why I argue that he is still stuck in Orba era mentality because back then getting 3 periode thing is easy stuff. He kinda forgets that it is Reformasi era, the legislative and constitutional court is not a puppet nowadays, unlike back then.
 

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,090
Reactions
4 1,239
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
That's why Luhut went too far with this. He knows amending that sht is not a realistic expectation, with no urgency whatsoever. So why makes the 3 periode show to begin with? Moreover, he arrange all of that and said one-sided statements that President will do this and do that, so he basically can order the President around then? Who's the real President here? He was involved in penundaan pemilu proposal, and now 3 periode shenanigans, what the heck is wrong with this guy?

We are talking about the perspective of the executive branch alone, and it seems like the Luhut guy is even more interested in this controversial stuff than even the President. But the fact that the issue already mencuat, meaning he really wants it. It's not the opposition who did bait or anything, it's Luhut himself who proposed this stuff. I mean the opposition is weak now, you know yourself that the biggest most chonky opposition out there is now your Menhan, there is no opposition to speak of in this issue.

That is why I argue that he is still stuck in Orba era mentality because back then getting 3 periode thing is easy stuff. He kinda forgets that it is Reformasi era, the legislative and constitutional court is not a puppet nowadays, unlike back then.
In case you haven't noticed as yet ... Wellcome to the democracy .
Everybody was free to expressing their opinions and ideas within the boundary of law ...
And truthfully ... When BAIS and BIA was in some of form or another were still under his supervision . Then we have to put some merit in most if not all of ... his previous statement ...
Take a chill pil will you ... It's a pengalihan isu 101 all over again .


☕☕☕
 

Lordimperator

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Correspondent
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
4,938
Reactions
3 2,822
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Terbang rendah gitu pilot masih bisa pake parasut kah?
 

San.geuk

Active member
Messages
81
Reactions
49
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
In case you haven't noticed as yet ... Wellcome to the democracy .
Everybody was free to expressing their opinions and ideas within the boundary of law ...
And truthfully ... When BAIS and BIA was in some of form or another were still under his supervision . Then we have to put some merit in most if not all of ... his previous statement ...
Take a chill pil will you ... It's a pengalihan isu 101 all over again .


☕☕☕

biasanya orang normal kalau mau mengalihkan issue ke hal yang baik2 bukan yg nambah issue baru yg bikin orang jadi makin ilfeel hehehehe

mungkin pikiran mereka yg dukung 3 periode: "kontroversi sudah banyak, tambah 1 ga kerasa bedanya" hahahaha
 

HellFireIndo

Committed member
Messages
284
Reactions
358
View attachment 42087
Based Yani wanted us to replace the role of US Seventh Fleet. We still have owe our debt to this hero.
I agree fully with Yani's idea, honestly, my wish is scarily similar to him, our hegemony over Southeast Asia is our birthright. In principle, his and Sukarno's wishes are pretty much the same, that is "Indonesia stronk" basically.

The difference is in the political bloc they are leaning towards. Sukarno wants Indonesia to join the eastern bloc, while Yani is more pro-western. But shit happens, Yani was killed and Sukarno was overthrown.

Though it is unclear why Suharto didn't continue Yani's vision? We got both Murdani and Murtopo in Suharto's inner circle, but then we got downgraded military that is much more political and inward-focused instead, like why?
 

Umigami

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
6,383
Reactions
5 5,211
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia

Lordimperator

Experienced member
Moderator
Indonesia Correspondent
Indonesia Moderator
Messages
4,938
Reactions
3 2,822
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia

Ravager

Contributor
Messages
1,090
Reactions
4 1,239
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
biasanya orang normal kalau mau mengalihkan issue ke hal yang baik2 bukan yg nambah issue baru yg bikin orang jadi makin ilfeel hehehehe

mungkin pikiran mereka yg dukung 3 periode: "kontroversi sudah banyak, tambah 1 ga kerasa bedanya" hahahaha

Bakso tetaplah bakso walau dengan rasa yg beraneka ragam dan harga yang bervariasi dr paket sultan hingga Pahe ...
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom