Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[NEKO]

Senior Minister Tjahjo Kumolo Passes Away at 64

Tjahjo has been in the cabinet since President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo took office in October 2014.

jakartaglobe.id

Menteri PAN-RB meninggal.

 

[Lordimperator]

Senior Minister Tjahjo Kumolo Passes Away at 64

Tjahjo has been in the cabinet since President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo took office in October 2014.

jakartaglobe.id

Menteri PAN-RB meningg

RIP

 

[schuimpjes]

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/A-Democratic-Trade-Partnership-Ally-Shoring-to-Counter-Coercion-and-Secure-Supply-Chains-1.pdf

Atlantic Council writing suggested US and like minded countries to make its own economic bloc. This economic bloc is meant to lessen the dependency between free market democracies (proposed D-10) and the autocratic states.

The dependency between democracies to Russia–China are just to interwined. 82% of mobile phone imported to US are assembled in China, EU states dependency to Russia energy are the examples. If US sanctioned the China, US economy would also affected because their trade with China is so huge and they need each other, analysts called this situation as ‘Mutual Assured Economic Destruction’.

Atlantic Council suggested to make kind of Democratic economic NATO called D–TEP to deal with this. This thing would make countries to be more reliant to each other economically instead to China and Russia. ‘Ally Shoring’ which means make companies to divest from China–Russia and move their investments to D-TEP countries or which consider as friends also encouraged or even codified.

They also suggested to make kind of like NATO Article 5 that if member countries are economically coerced, the whole bloc would doing measures against the coercer by using sanctions or other measures.

 

[NEKO]

Atlantic Council writing suggested US and like minded countries to make its own economic bloc. This economic bloc is meant to lessen the dependency between free market democracies (proposed D-10) and the autocratic states.

The dependency between democracies to Russia–China are just to interwined. 82% of mobile phone imported to US are assembled in China, EU states dependency to Russia energy are the examples. If US sanctioned the China, US economy would also affected because their trade with China is so huge and they need each other, analysts called this situation as ‘Mutual Assured Economic Destruction’.

Atlantic Council suggested to make kind of Democratic economic NATO called D–TEP to deal with this. This thing would make countries to be more reliant to each other economically instead to China and Russia. ‘Ally Shoring’ which means make companies to divest from China–Russia and move their investments to D-TEP countries or which consider as friends also encouraged or even codified.

They also suggested to make kind of like NATO Article 5 that if member countries are economically coerced, the whole bloc would doing measures against the coercer by using sanctions or other measures.

And Indonesia can engages with both sides.

 

[schuimpjes]

And Indonesia can engages with both sides.

“Finally, D-TEP would aim to incentivize nations, particularly those in the global South, to join the United States and its allies in upholding the rules-based order. With the economic benefits of supply chain shifts accruing to member states, the prospect of D-TEP membership could serve as a powerful inducement for nonaligned democracies and other nations to work more closely with the United States and its allies to advance shared interests and reduce strategic vulnerabilities to autocracies that are challenging the order.” Atlantic Council also wrote about incentivize countries to join. If we gain more than we loss, why not?

Edit: Really want to see this proposed idea to become reality. And we can see system made for people can be better than people for system in autocracies.

 

[wahyu845]

Kepengennya elang gurun terynata cuman fatamorgana...
Meanwhile Dassault : sweet revenge baby

if the one given F 16 E/F Block 60 is not Mirage 2000 - 9 dash 9, that's a different story

 

[wahyu845]

not related with IDN procurements

Video: Walrus-class Submarine replacement program - Naval News

Walrus-class Submarine replacement program of the Royal Netherlands Navy with Saab, Naval Group, TKMS

www.navalnews.com

wow U212CD quite huge, and the Conventional Barracuda has different callsign this time.

hoping we could get scorpene ASAP

yes we hope the Navy can get Naval Group Black Sword submarine (conventional Barracuda) (the government order 80s meter version of the scorpene ?)

 

[RadenSudirman]

Atlantic Council writing suggested US and like minded countries to make its own economic bloc. This economic bloc is meant to lessen the dependency between free market democracies (proposed D-10) and the autocratic states.

The dependency between democracies to Russia–China are just to interwined. 82% of mobile phone imported to US are assembled in China, EU states dependency to Russia energy are the examples. If US sanctioned the China, US economy would also affected because their trade with China is so huge and they need each other, analysts called this situation as ‘Mutual Assured Economic Destruction’.

Atlantic Council suggested to make kind of Democratic economic NATO called D–TEP to deal with this. This thing would make countries to be more reliant to each other economically instead to China and Russia. ‘Ally Shoring’ which means make companies to divest from China–Russia and move their investments to D-TEP countries or which consider as friends also encouraged or even codified.

They also suggested to make kind of like NATO Article 5 that if member countries are economically coerced, the whole bloc would doing measures against the coercer by using sanctions or other measures.

American companies would still sck China's blls because green (or red) papers are worth more than white papers.

They already have G7, EU and other "western" things, and they still want to make a new one? the International Relations "experts" aren't really as creative as it seems, all they can think of is to make more and more "open" or "liberal" institutions as a solution for everything, especially to "combat" "closed" system countries like China and Russia. But that stuff only works against weaker countries and not against a major power. It all comes back to the Realist paradigm, where power dictates, and not some liberal western institutions.

 

[Lordimperator]

Calidus 8x8 pakai V hull yg tahan IED sama kaya tank harimau?

Calidus Wahas?

 

[Umigami]

Calidus 8x8 pakai V hull yg tahan IED sama kaya tank harimau?

32 ton APC?! DAMN!!!

 

[Var Dracon]

32 ton APC?! DAMN!!!

Yeah that's one big wheeled vehicle, about the same dimension with BMC Altug View attachment 45695

Altug is not amphibious though, it is 2 tons lighter (about 30 tons)

Wahash is 8.5 m long, 2.7 m high, and 2.8 m wide.

 

[NEKO]

We are not getting more Pandur II?

 

[Umigami]

We are not getting more Pandur II?

I don't even see those 30mm variant here yet.

 

[Umigami]

Lama lama bikin iri juga nih kelengkapan senjata Ukraine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543149257934381059

 

[RadenSudirman]

Lama lama bikin iri juga nih kelengkapan senjata Ukraine

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1543149257934381059

Ukraine's GDP is only a fifth of that of Indonesia, and its GDP per capita is still lower than Indonesia's. Yet they can afford many things and punch above average, confidently against a great power that is Russia.

I mean look at that situation, Indonesia should be able to offer an even better military, but that hasn't been materialized yet. Yet the military budget is below the police budget, while the police budget is the bare minimum amount required to equip the infantry personnel with proper equipment, not even counting the budget for alutsista.

It is partially a budget problem but wholly a system problem. Ukraine may be able to arm itself well due to the urgent need to defend against Russia which is a latent threat at least since the 2014 Crimea annexation. 8 years to prepare, and during that time Ukrainians sets up these paramilitary groups and training centers, and years later the result is that these are enabling the country's rapid mobilization of troops, and therefore they were able to square up against Russia quite well for their size.

We can use them as examples of how to prepare the defense of the country, but sadly without a clear urgent threat local "big guys" would rather ngopi, and continue their usual useless bureaucracy than think about the future of our country and do something about it.

 

[schuimpjes]

They already have G7, EU and other "western" things, and they still want to make a new one?

This proposed one is meant to dealt to ‘ally–shoring’ or divest China (especially) and move the investments to member countries. And also create deterrence effect for members economically. If member country is coerced economically, all members have to doing measures against those who coerced.

American companies would still sck China's blls because green (or red) papers are worth more than white papers.

Their mentality are profit oriented, they would do anything, anywhere, anytime as long that would bring more profit than other available. I’m sure if this D–TEP realized, they would do anything on their power to make companies to divest China and ‘ally/friend shored’ their companies.

the International Relations "experts" aren't really as creative as it seems, all they can think of is to make more and more "open" or "liberal" institutions as a solution for everything, especially to "combat" "closed" system countries like China and Russia. But that stuff only works against weaker countries and not against a major power. It all comes back to the Realist paradigm, where power dictates, and not some liberal western institutions.

Don’t think democracy as answer for anything, with all its flaws, democracy is a system where the people choose their own government and free go make their own gathering like political parties for example and let the people answer do they need it or not. Again, with all its flaws, it is better than lived without ability to change the status quo, especially if the status quo is shitty.

And democracy must be protected. Just as people still gatekeeping religions that claimed to be the absolute truth, democracy must be protected. And they not proposed that to be only based on philosophical standpoint, they also considering to be beneficial too to join that alliance to win the heart and mind those with realism standpoint and care nothing about China–Russia political systems.

 

[Umigami]

Kalau dipikir, jangan2 pemerintah tukar tambah dgn UAE? UAE beli kapal LPD dari PT PAL & investasi di ibu kota baru, kita beli Mirage mereka? Bisa jadi

Mutual exchange gini kan biasa terjadi.

Kayaknya emang gitu

 

[NEKO]

 

[Umigami]

Hmmm....

 

[Var Dracon]

American MPF (Mobile Protected Firepower) deployment