Yea ..i know.. both uses tubitak transducers
- Messages
- 8,591
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Someone may have asked the question before, but the projectiles fired from the railgun do they have to be special or would it be possible to use 30 mm ATOM type rounds. Even 35 mm smart munition would be fine imo.
I know that testing at max capability is important, but I was thinking that if we could lower the velocity to somewhere between mach 2-3 (or a bit higher) the railguns would last longer.
If possible even reduce the needed range so instead of going for maximum range to 40-50km, while this technology is still being R&D. Mach 3 would mean the projectile travels at around 994 m/s so it would reach the designated area in est. 40s (40 km)
IMO having a compact railgun system (size of Aselsan 35 mm) that have a reach of 40-50 km that can fire off 800-1000 rounds before needing to be replaced would be pretty decent.
I'm just speculating here and the parameters might be too low.
- Messages
- 5,461
- Solutions
- 2
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
The problem is the munition should be placed an encasing to be accelerated by the rails effectively. and munitions should be designed from scratch for those velocities + introducing some guidance which can withstand some big numbers of g force.
The issue is not only the munition or the rail gun, but barrel life + enormous EM field pulse when it is launched. I have told a few reasons before why it is not feasible on ships, and power source or gun size is my last reason to be honest.
1. The huge "blast" of EM field is almost detectable within a few hundred kilometers and will definitely reveal location of the asset far beyond the range of Rail gun munition.
2. Huge blast on Magnetic field will induce a magnetism on the hull, regardless of the material of the hull there will be certain parts which will be magnetized, may further affect some electronics aboard. And these parts will remain magnetized in hundred or thousand folds of normal levels, or even beyond and again the ship will remain "shining" on any magnetic anomaly detector few hundred kilometers away.
3. As of not it doesn't provide feasible rate of fire, or rate of consequent fires, it is limited and does not contribute more than the missiles or conventional munitions. Install batteries but it draws so much energy that batteries should be either too large to provide sufficient rate of fire, gen-sets should be in large capacity and what is needed normally and even when optimized for the best ratio of gen-set + battery combination it is still not feasible.
4. Guidance, it is unclear how can the munition can be guided in long ranges effectively, the munition + casing + rails are still limited the guns become huge but the munition does not.
I am pretty sure these drawbacks will be diminished in a decade or so, thus we should keep progressing in a slow pace and focusing more on the munition +barrel + guidance part.
- Messages
- 4,054
- Solutions
- 1
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
The difference between Fersah and Yakamoz is Fersah can transmit more power so it has a longer range. Fersah also has a mine detection mode and probably better signal processing. Yakamoz 2020 is the next-generation version of Yakamoz.
- Messages
- 5,461
- Solutions
- 2
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Call for tender, Autonomous/Unmanned surface vessel by SSB.
This could be different from the earlier orders.
One-piece port protection system, and one-piece ASuW system are going to be acquired. This is rather a call for evolutionary purposes.
Prior to tender, a demonstration shall be conducted by 15 August with a boat and software-the latter shall be developed by national sources- consisting of route tracking, obstacle avoidance, autonomous navigation tests.
This could be different from the earlier orders.
One-piece port protection system, and one-piece ASuW system are going to be acquired. This is rather a call for evolutionary purposes.
Prior to tender, a demonstration shall be conducted by 15 August with a boat and software-the latter shall be developed by national sources- consisting of route tracking, obstacle avoidance, autonomous navigation tests.
Hello all,
I added some information about the tender.
https://www.turdef.com/Article/ssb-to-supply-unmanned-surface-vehicle/552 I hope you enjoy it.
- Messages
- 3,226
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Main advantages that are expected by having a railgun are:
1. Long range
2. High Speed
3. Cheap rounds
By decreasing your speed and range you are defeating the object of having a rail gun. Sahi-209 seems to be doing what you are suggesting. And it is not getting them anywhere! You might as well use HVP rounds in conventional 127mm or 155mm guns.
Projectiles that are fired from rail guns are specifically produced to fit in to the system. They are a bit like Sabot rounds, with a shell that opens up to release the main projectile upon leaving the barrel.
I don’t think the electromagnetic system will send a EM shock wave that will destroy electronics. The system works like a linear electric motor. With windings and permanent magnets that are powered for a short while in a well insulated enclosure. There is a sizeable EM field generated along the length of the rails. If placed closely, electronic circuits can be negatively effected. But these circuits are placed further and the EM fields are controlled so that they do not effect circuits adversely. A powerful electric generator develops high levels of EM too. And if circuits are placed close by, then they can be adversely efected As well.
The real problem is the gigantic shock wave the railgun develops. It is so strong that it can be detected from far away. Shock waves in the region of 32 Mach is mentioned below.
US has realised that even if they have a 200km range railgun, their ships will be well within striking distance of Chinese anti ship missiles. ( and it’s hypersonic derivatives have around 2000km range. Chinese hypersonic glide vehicles are also a danger). Together with the difficulties of power supplies and excessive wear and tear they decided they have reached a level with the tech to shelve it for the time being.
An electromagnetic railgun accelerator: a generator of strong shock waves in channels - Technical Physics Letters
Processes that accompany the generation of strong shock waves during the acceleration of a free plasma piston (PP) in the electromagnetic railgun channel have been experimentally studied. The formation of shock waves in the railgun channel and the motion of a shock-wave-compressed layer proceed...
link.springer.com
Last edited:
- Messages
- 5,360
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Philips
Well-known member
- Messages
- 359
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
We are developing another capability, which few countries are working on, locally-nationally.
We have completed the first phase of our Herd IDA Project, where we aim to provide swarm capability to unmanned sea vehicles, autonomy and the execution of various tasks.
More to come...
Ryder
Experienced member
- Messages
- 10,837
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Honestly never discount railguns.
They might be expensive, impractical or just not ready yet.
Remember Al Jazaris inventions and designs how easily people at the time discounted them or call them useless?
A torpedo was made in Syria under Mamluk rule. Now look at it Torpedos are one of the most common naval weapons.
They might be expensive, impractical or just not ready yet.
Remember Al Jazaris inventions and designs how easily people at the time discounted them or call them useless?
A torpedo was made in Syria under Mamluk rule. Now look at it Torpedos are one of the most common naval weapons.
- Messages
- 5,461
- Solutions
- 2
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
It is strange many insiders out there didn't see it coming.
There are more to be unleashed at IDEF or even later. Turkish USV portfolio will start from RHIB sized boats to FAC sized (50+ meters) vessels. For the larger ones another project will be commenced for making engine and related equipment suitable for long-endurance low-failure similar to what US has done some years ago.
It is a tremendous effort to eliminate human factor from maintenance on the go. Small USVs are easy to make because they rarely rely on a maintenance on this they are meant to be repaired in bays or even a dedicated space aboard the ships, however larger vessels heavily rely on that since they are deployed for long durations.
https://www.turdef.com/Article/mke-brings-76-mm-naval-gun-to-idef/558 MKE's naval gun waits for visitors
- Messages
- 5,062
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
You might want to check the title of your article again,
"Presidency of Defence Industry Presidency has published a request for proposal (TÇD) to supply two different types of unmanned surface vehicles.''
Huelague
Experienced member
- Messages
- 3,875
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Old school design. Sad.
- Messages
- 4,054
- Solutions
- 1
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Lol outer cover can be changed without much issue.
- Messages
- 5,461
- Solutions
- 2
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Just the notify people the picture does not belong to MKE's naval gun. It has not been integrated on a ship yet, so it will be just showcased on the stand.
- Messages
- 3,667
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Naval Communication Systems
With the “Integrated Communication System” solutions, the communication needs of military surface and underwater platforms of various sizes with different mission concepts are met in a national and indigenous way. Harbor and Sea Acceptance Tests were successfully completed in 2020 for Test and Training Ship (TTS) Integrated Communication System. Within this framework, integration and acceptance procedures for a National Long-Range IFF Interrogator device were also successfully completed on a naval platform for the first time. Platform integration of the communication system continued prior to the Harbor Acceptance process of the New Type Submarine (Ship 1). Factory Acceptance process of the New Type Submarine (Ship 2) Integrated Communication System was successfully completed. Maintenance and repair training for Alarm, Announcement and Entertainment Systems was provided to the relevant personnel of the Turkish Naval Forces. Preveze Midlife Modernization (YÖM) Integrated Communication System Factory Acceptance was successfully completed. Necessary procedures were initiated to enable subcontractors to design and produce some of the subunits as a part of the local production initiatives. Production and procurement activities were continued as a part of the MİLGEM-5 and DİMDEG projects. As a part of the Pakistan Corvette Project, the system design was completed and procurement activities were initiated.
ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report
With the “Integrated Communication System” solutions, the communication needs of military surface and underwater platforms of various sizes with different mission concepts are met in a national and indigenous way. Harbor and Sea Acceptance Tests were successfully completed in 2020 for Test and Training Ship (TTS) Integrated Communication System. Within this framework, integration and acceptance procedures for a National Long-Range IFF Interrogator device were also successfully completed on a naval platform for the first time. Platform integration of the communication system continued prior to the Harbor Acceptance process of the New Type Submarine (Ship 1). Factory Acceptance process of the New Type Submarine (Ship 2) Integrated Communication System was successfully completed. Maintenance and repair training for Alarm, Announcement and Entertainment Systems was provided to the relevant personnel of the Turkish Naval Forces. Preveze Midlife Modernization (YÖM) Integrated Communication System Factory Acceptance was successfully completed. Necessary procedures were initiated to enable subcontractors to design and produce some of the subunits as a part of the local production initiatives. Production and procurement activities were continued as a part of the MİLGEM-5 and DİMDEG projects. As a part of the Pakistan Corvette Project, the system design was completed and procurement activities were initiated.
ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,667
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
In the MILGEM-5 Project, the Warfare System Contract for the first frigate (Istanbul Class Frigate) to be designed and built nationally and locally was signed and entered into force in 2020. Unlike the systems in the previous MILGEM Corvette Platforms in the project, Illuminator Radar, ALPER Pulsed Type LPI Radar, Extended Band Electronic Warfare Suite, AKREP Fire Control Radar, PIRI Infrared Search and Track System, National Torpedo Launching System, FERSAH Hull Mounted Sonar, GÖKDENİZ Close-In Weapon System, CENK Search Radar, and National IFF System were included in the Configuration.
- Messages
- 3,667
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Weapon/Fire Control Systems
The development, validation and production activities for various Naval Surface Fire Control Systems continued successfully in 2020. The qualification activities for ATMACA surface to surface anti-ship missile, whose Fire Control System, Active Radar Missile Seeker, Missile Computer and Power Distribution Unit was developed by ASELSAN, and the production activities for I-Class Frigates were accelerated in 2020. ATMACA managed to hit the target successfully by attacking the test target with a flight above the surface and performing all of its functions as a part of the firing tests conducted during 2020.
Procurement, production and factory level testing activities were completed for 12 ASW Rocket and Launcher Systems with related backups, which will be produced by ASELSAN as a part of the National Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Rocket and Launcher System Supply contract signed with ROKETSAN.
Modernization of Surface Naval Platforms
The Critical Design Phase of the Barbaros Class Frigate Mid-Life Modernization Project was successfully completed in 2020. Factory Acceptance Test (FAT) phase is in progress for ship systems.
Integration of the first 7 platforms was successfully completed as a part of the IFF Mode 5/S Naval Platforms Integration Project, which has the highest number of platforms (87) among any modernization projects conducted for the Naval Forces Command so far.
Submarine and Sonar Systems
HAT and SAT activities were successfully completed for KULAÇ Echo Sounder system supplied to the Test and Training Ship. Production activities are in progress for 20 KULAÇ Echo Sounder systems under 4 different contracts.
In ASELSAN FERSAH Hull Mounted Sonar System (HMSS) Project, which is being conducted as a part of BARBAROS Class Frigate Midlife Modernization Project, improvement and validation activities successfully continued upon performance of the sea testing with the system prototype.
The number of FERSAH systems to be delivered to the Naval Forces Command increased to 5 with the addition of ASELSAN FERSAH Hull Mounted Sonar System.
Sea tests and sea-air tests along with mechanical structure validation activities were successfully completed within the scope of the ASELBUOY Passive Directional Sonobuoy Development Program.
Integration activities were successfully conducted and sea tests were performed for concept demonstration as a part of the Underwater Acoustic Surveillance Project (SAGAP) which was launched using ASELSAN resources along with TÜBİTAK TEYDEB 1511 support.
The first phase (System Requirements Identification Phase) of the Low Frequency Active Sonar System Development Project was completed, and the second phase (Critical Design Phase) is at completion stage
Factory acceptance tests were performed for Integrated Communication System, Ship Alarm and Announcement System, and Electronic Support System as a part of the New Type Submarine project.
Modernization of Underwater Naval Platforms
Preliminary Design Review Phase is in progress as a part of the PREVEZE Class Submarine Midlife Modernization Project. For TCG Preveze Submarine, factory acceptance tests were performed for Integrated Communication System and WAIS (Warship Automatic Identification System), which were requested for an early delivery as a result of the requirements set by the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB)/Naval Forces Command.
Torpedo and Torpedo Countermeasure Systems
Development activities were launched for Torpedo Tube system, which is under ASELSAN’s responsibility as a part of the MILGEM-5 Combat System Contract signed in 2020.
Production activities continued for ASELSAN HIZIR Torpedo Countermeasure System for Surface Ships as a part of the MIGEM and B-YÖM Projects. As a result of the MILGEM-5th Ship (I Class Frigate) Contract signed in 2020, total number of HIZIR Systems increased to 14. Among these, 10 will be delivered to the Naval Forces Command’s inventory and 4 will be exported.
An order was received from the Indonesian Naval Forces Command for production, delivery and integration to the relevant underwater platform of ZARGANA system (Torpedo Countermeasure System for Submarines), which was nationally developed by ASELSAN. Procurement and production activities continued as a part of the order.
In addition to this, one more sales order was received from another country for ZARGANA system.
- ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report
The development, validation and production activities for various Naval Surface Fire Control Systems continued successfully in 2020. The qualification activities for ATMACA surface to surface anti-ship missile, whose Fire Control System, Active Radar Missile Seeker, Missile Computer and Power Distribution Unit was developed by ASELSAN, and the production activities for I-Class Frigates were accelerated in 2020. ATMACA managed to hit the target successfully by attacking the test target with a flight above the surface and performing all of its functions as a part of the firing tests conducted during 2020.
Procurement, production and factory level testing activities were completed for 12 ASW Rocket and Launcher Systems with related backups, which will be produced by ASELSAN as a part of the National Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Rocket and Launcher System Supply contract signed with ROKETSAN.
Modernization of Surface Naval Platforms
The Critical Design Phase of the Barbaros Class Frigate Mid-Life Modernization Project was successfully completed in 2020. Factory Acceptance Test (FAT) phase is in progress for ship systems.
Integration of the first 7 platforms was successfully completed as a part of the IFF Mode 5/S Naval Platforms Integration Project, which has the highest number of platforms (87) among any modernization projects conducted for the Naval Forces Command so far.
Submarine and Sonar Systems
HAT and SAT activities were successfully completed for KULAÇ Echo Sounder system supplied to the Test and Training Ship. Production activities are in progress for 20 KULAÇ Echo Sounder systems under 4 different contracts.
In ASELSAN FERSAH Hull Mounted Sonar System (HMSS) Project, which is being conducted as a part of BARBAROS Class Frigate Midlife Modernization Project, improvement and validation activities successfully continued upon performance of the sea testing with the system prototype.
The number of FERSAH systems to be delivered to the Naval Forces Command increased to 5 with the addition of ASELSAN FERSAH Hull Mounted Sonar System.
Sea tests and sea-air tests along with mechanical structure validation activities were successfully completed within the scope of the ASELBUOY Passive Directional Sonobuoy Development Program.
Integration activities were successfully conducted and sea tests were performed for concept demonstration as a part of the Underwater Acoustic Surveillance Project (SAGAP) which was launched using ASELSAN resources along with TÜBİTAK TEYDEB 1511 support.
The first phase (System Requirements Identification Phase) of the Low Frequency Active Sonar System Development Project was completed, and the second phase (Critical Design Phase) is at completion stage
Factory acceptance tests were performed for Integrated Communication System, Ship Alarm and Announcement System, and Electronic Support System as a part of the New Type Submarine project.
Modernization of Underwater Naval Platforms
Preliminary Design Review Phase is in progress as a part of the PREVEZE Class Submarine Midlife Modernization Project. For TCG Preveze Submarine, factory acceptance tests were performed for Integrated Communication System and WAIS (Warship Automatic Identification System), which were requested for an early delivery as a result of the requirements set by the Defense Industry Presidency (SSB)/Naval Forces Command.
Torpedo and Torpedo Countermeasure Systems
Development activities were launched for Torpedo Tube system, which is under ASELSAN’s responsibility as a part of the MILGEM-5 Combat System Contract signed in 2020.
Production activities continued for ASELSAN HIZIR Torpedo Countermeasure System for Surface Ships as a part of the MIGEM and B-YÖM Projects. As a result of the MILGEM-5th Ship (I Class Frigate) Contract signed in 2020, total number of HIZIR Systems increased to 14. Among these, 10 will be delivered to the Naval Forces Command’s inventory and 4 will be exported.
An order was received from the Indonesian Naval Forces Command for production, delivery and integration to the relevant underwater platform of ZARGANA system (Torpedo Countermeasure System for Submarines), which was nationally developed by ASELSAN. Procurement and production activities continued as a part of the order.
In addition to this, one more sales order was received from another country for ZARGANA system.
- ASELSAN 2020 Annual Report
