Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[satria]

LEGUAN MLC 70 Marinir

 

[Mandala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1430101183671062535

 

[Mandala]

North Sea Boats official video of KRI Golok-688 Shipnaming and Launching Ceremony. KRI Golok bridge photos were screenshots from this video.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Could we got one of them as saab representative here..

They don't need any. Their volunteer buzzer / agitator already here.

 

[schuimpjes]

There is even certain poster whose doing it by creating multiple accounts just for that purpose.

I suspecting old poster, [REDACTED]. I have no evidence here, just feel kind of fishy.

Special force Navy Exercise

CZ-805 everywhere.

 

[Madokafc]

US Thought the same thing after exocet struck the USS Stark, though this case is for the aluminium one .
https://apnews.com/article/fb3c5f5bb2688593dadac51dae591dd4

USS Stark can be saved, repaired and kicking again as they are using standard rigid steel hull, proven design from their previous class of Frigates designed to handle such possibility of AShM attack. meanwhile those British ships....

That's why those Burkes is quite Hardy and ruged compared to modern European Destroyer style. And the American itself still pondering to increase their hull safety structure

 

[Madokafc]

LEGUAN MLC 70 Marinir

Old stuff we got here, not seen them much since 1995....

 

[Madokafc]

Kolinlamil is in material movements, notes including KH 179 155 mm gun, AMX VTT Apc. Those LST is actually our Navy Bread and Butter

 

[this is crunch]

Those LST is actually our Navy Bread and Butter

Old Reliable

i wonder why don't we have a dedicated cargo ship with it's own crane and loading-unloading equipment

 

[Aghost132483]

KRI Teluk Banten looks like KRI Teluk Bintuni class but in smaller dimension, are our local LST design inspired by KRI Teluk Banten?

 

[FPXAllen]

The admiralty also believe the same thing before the Falkland War, until Exocet and 20 dead sailors change that.

It's very easy to saying this and that when you're not the one who will be risking your life in the line of duty. But then again, I don't expect most of you guys here to care the slightest about the safety & wellbeing of our service members when in the line of duty.

US Thought the same thing after exocet struck the USS Stark, though this case is for the aluminium one .
https://apnews.com/article/fb3c5f5bb2688593dadac51dae591dd4

USS Stark can be saved, repaired and kicking again as they are using standard rigid steel hull, proven design from their previous class of Frigates designed to handle such possibility of AShM attack. meanwhile those British ships....

That's why those Burkes is quite Hardy and ruged compared to modern European Destroyer style. And the American itself still pondering to increase their hull safety structure

You all raised some good points, although I wonder if you've realized that you are comparing two destroyers with a fast attack craft which length is only half of them and which displacement is only about 5% of those metal ships.

Your concern in this matter is indeed well-placed, we still don't know for sure how much battle damage can a carbon composite material as used in KRI Golok can take. The poor showing of the material's ability to withstand fire as shown in KRI Klewang incident surely didn't help to bring much confidence to it, assuming that KRI Golok is also using the same material without additional treatments

Spoiler

and assuming that it was actually the carbon composite material used in KRI Klewang in the first place

.

In the worst case scenario, if a Klewang / Golok class FAC got hit by an AShM with a 150-200 kg warhead, if the material can't really hold its own against fire (as in the HMS Sheffield's case, but worse) then it will be Klewang 2.0 incident all over again - if there's still something left to burn since I doubt that anything will be much left of its superstructure if the missile exploded on impact.

But here's the thing: Can we really expect a vastly different result if the missile hit one of our Sampari-class FAC? While Sampari-class ships are built with traditional steel / aluminium materials, but they're still 60-m class ships with displacement of only about twice of Klewang / Golok-class FAC.

From the way I see it, the philosopy of building and deploying FAC like KRI Golok is kind of similar with Japanese WW-2 Zero fighter: Lightweight, nimble, pack considerable firepower, but don't get hit since Zero didn't have any self-sealing fuel tanks and even any kind of armor (except for some mid to late war versions). Therefore a combination of fast speed, CIWS and counter measures are a must for this kind of ship to ensure that it still has at least a decent chance of survival in a modern battlefield.

 

[Madokafc]

You all raised some good points, although I wonder if you've realized that you are comparing two destroyers with a fast attack craft which length is only half of them and which displacement is only about 5% of those metal ships.

Your concern in this matter is indeed well-placed, we still don't know for sure how much battle damage can a carbon composite material as used in KRI Golok can take. The poor showing of the material's ability to withstand fire as shown in KRI Klewang incident surely didn't help to bring much confidence to it, assuming that KRI Golok is also using the same material without additional treatments

Spoiler

and assuming that it was actually the carbon composite material used in the first place

.

In the worst case scenario, if a Klewang / Golok class FAC got hit by an AShM with a 150-200 kg warhead, if the material can't really hold its own against fire (as in the HMS Sheffield's case, but worse) then it will be Klewang 2.0 incident all over again - if there's still something left to burn since I doubt that anything will be much left of its superstructure if the missile exploded on impact.

But here's the thing: Can we really expect a vastly different result if the missile hit one of our Sampari-class FAC? While Sampari-class ships are built with traditional steel / aluminium materials, but they're still 60-m class ships with displacement of only about twice of Klewang / Golok-class FAC.

From the way I see it, the philosopy of building and deploying FAC like KRI Golok is kind of similar with Japanese WW-2 Zero fighter: Lightweight, nimble, pack considerable firepower, but don't get hit since Zero didn't have any self-sealing fuel tanks and even any kind of armor (except for some mid to late war versions). Therefore a combination of fast speed, CIWS and counter measures are a must for this kind of ship to ensure that it still has at least a decent chance of survival in a modern battlefield.

No need to question about AShM as the golok displacement and size is way too small to survive any kind modern AShM attack if they ever got hit , even when it was Made by steel i don't doubt they would never survived as with any other fast Missiles Boats in the same size and displacement anywhere in this world. The lingering question is they not only facing AShM attack, the other type of attack is possible nowadays like facing molotov cocktail Attack when trying to intercept foreign fishing vessels, incendiary ammo type from Heavy machine gun and above caliber, or even something like RPG's one of the most common type of weaponry being used by Southern Philippines militia....

 

[Madokafc]

 

[Lordimperator]

AShM attack if they ever got hit

Like hsv 2 swift got hit by yemenis ashm

 

[wekiweko]

-edit-

re FAC, I believe as they are mainly intended to perform hit and run strike with speed and their nimbleness as one of their main defense, they would not last that long if they are to be caught in open area where the enemy can easily spot and hit them

 

[Madokafc]

-edit-

re FAC, I believe as they are mainly intended to perform hit and run strike with speed and their nimbleness as one of their main defense, they would not last that long if they are to be caught in open area where the enemy can easily spot and hit them

The problem is they are not equipped with proper equipment to do hit and run tactic

 

[wekiweko]

The problem is they are not equipped with proper equipment to do hit and run tactic

I think to date the only time when we acquire a class of FAC that can really perform their intended role is when we acquire the Mandau class. Sad.

But I hope we do not repeat the same mistake with our new capital ships, so they can come fully and properly equipped

 

[FPXAllen]

way too small to survive any kind modern AShM attack if they ever got hit

That's what I'm saying, and that's why I think it's kind of strange when you brought USS Stark since apparently we both agree that FAC-class ships are not expected to be able to survive a direct AShM hit.

facing molotov cocktail Attack when trying to intercept foreign fishing vessels

We do have Bakamla and KPLP don't we? Aside from the possible roles mix up and overlap between those two, TNI-AL should not be the one who have to deal with such cases in the future. Besides, if they somehow still have to - and especially in this specific case - where KRI Golok has to intercept and board foreign fishing vessels caught ilegally operating in our waters, why does it has to risk itself and its crew of being thrown with Molotov cocktails by those foreigners during approach? It carries a RHIB to carry troops to board those vessels before the ship can come close, again, especially in cases like this.

incendiary ammo type from Heavy machine gun and above caliber

Valid point. But that can happen only if it sailed too near and within firing range of an offending armed ship which armaments can be seen from the distance.

Besides, if this happened, we should then ask why the captain and its crew did not employ the craft's strongpoints againts its adversary, namely to stay out of gun range with its speed and maneuverability but operated it like the usual conventional navy ships in its class instead?

even something like RPG's

Same as above.

The point is, I think it's a mistake to apply some of the common thinking, strategies and tactics to a new kind of weapon platform instead of developing new ones based on its strongpoints and weaknesses. While some see and think new 'toys' like tank boat and now this KRI Golok as mere gimmicks, I see them as chances to develop our own unique strategy and tactics which can be very useful if taken seriously.

Please note that I'm not defending PT Lundin or whatever. Neither that I have any stake in these two projects from them or in any other "new toys" that are currently in development.

 

[FPXAllen]

The problem is they are not equipped with proper equipment to do hit and run tactic

If this is the problem, then it's not about the ship isn't it?

It's about the decision maker and allocated budget and, I'm assuming, the reluctance of some of the upper brass to accept this 'alien' kind of ship.

 

[Madokafc]

That's what I'm saying, and that's why I think it's kind of strange when you brought USS Stark since apparently we both agree that FAC-class ships are not expected to be able to survive a direct AShM hit.

We do have Bakamla and KPLP don't we? Aside from the possible roles mix up and overlap between those two, TNI-AL should not be the one who have to deal with such cases in the future. Besides, if they somehow still have to - and especially in this specific case - where KRI Golok has to intercept and board foreign fishing vessels caught ilegally operating in our waters, why do it has to risk itself and its crew of being thrown with Molotov cocktails by those foreigners during approach? It carries a RHIB to carry troops to board those vessels before the ship can come close, again, especially in cases like this.

Valid point. But that can happen only if it sailed too near and within firing range of an offending armed ship which armaments can be seen from the distance.

Besides, if this happened, we should then ask why the captain and its crew did not employ the craft's strongpoints againts its adversary, namely to stay out of gun range with its speed and maneuverability but operated it like the usual conventional navy ships in its class instead?

Same as above.

The point is, I think it's a mistake to apply some of the common thinking, strategies and tactics to a new kind of weapon platform instead of developing new ones based on its strongpoints and weaknesses. While some see and think new 'toys' like tank boat and now this KRI Golok as mere gimmicks, I see them as chances to develop our own unique strategy and tactics which can be very useful if taken seriously.

Please note that I'm not defending PT Lundin or whatever. Neither that I have any stake in these two projects from them or in any other "new toys" that are currently in development.

I am personally not like this kind of adventure and many in the Navy and MoD had the same opinion with me , good thing is for people i am know to handle the project they would not taking more of this and for why this **** being completed is this program being financed by budget from SBY admin and being delayed for almost a decade. That's why they prefer to allocated the limited fund for conventional OPV and big guys like Frigates or conventional KCR 60 class.