TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Ravenman]

We relayed to long on the American train.

Agreed, American technology is mostly state of the art and reliable but also overpriced and overrated.

A Turkish airforce with F15's, F18 Superhornets or F14 Tomcats (or F22's yummy yummy) would be a superb wet dream.

But Russian tech and the former Soviets heavy industry always catched up with the American militairy industry with lesser money and userfriendlier simplicated tech.

Russian space and rocket technology are the best in the world. And Russian heavy battletanks, even the Germans couldn't beat them on the long run (despite every Tiger I and Tiger II tank destroyed almost 10 Soviet tanks)

They have one of the best jets in the world (SU-30, SU-34, SU-35, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-35) and of the most feared airdefence systems. Their airdefence systems such as the Triumph class are feared worldwide. A old fashioned S200 from 1950 shot down a vast superiour F117-Nighthawk in 1999 in Kosovo. A outdated S300 from the Assad regime shot a Israeli F15 in Syrian airspace a few years ago. Israel admitted the lock but said the plane crashes due technical problems and they retaliated with heavy attacks from F35's in Lebanese airspace, but no more Syrian airspace.

If S400 was junk, they would never make so much problems and put so much pressure on Turkey to cancel it.

Hell, Turkey is even scared to test the S400 or activate it because of angry Uncle Sam.

Russian weapons are more efficient and not overprized, you just get exactly for what you paid.

 

[Ecderha]

We relayed to long on the American train.

Agreed, American technology is mostly state of the art and reliable but also overpriced and overrated.

A Turkish airforce with F15's, F18 Superhornets or F14 Tomcats (or F22's yummy yummy) would be a superb wet dream.

But Russian tech and the former Soviets heavy industry always catched up with the American militairy industry with lesser money and userfriendlier simplicated tech.

Russian space and rocket technology are the best in the world. And Russian heavy battletanks, even the Germans couldn't beat them on the long run (despite every Tiger I and Tiger II tank destroyed almost 10 Soviet tanks)

They have one of the best jets in the world (SU-30, SU-34, SU-35, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-35) and of the most feared airdefence systems. Their airdefence systems such as the Triumph class are feared worldwide. A old fashioned S200 from 1950 shot down a vast superiour F117-Nighthawk in 1999 in Kosovo. A outdated S300 from the Assad regime shot a Israeli F15 in Syrian airspace a few years ago. Israel admitted the lock but said the plane crashes due technical problems and they retaliated with heavy attacks from F35's in Lebanese airspace, but no more Syrian airspace.

If S400 was junk, they would never make so much problems and put so much pressure on Turkey to cancel it.

Hell, Turkey is even scared to test the S400 or activate it because of angry Uncle Sam.

Russian weapons are more efficient and not overprized, you just get exactly for what you paid.

"Agreed, American technology is mostly state of the art and reliable but also overpriced and overrated"
You should add the MAIN issue, It CAN NOT be used if usa say so. Which as history show it is happening ALL TIME.
Result is that you buy things which is STRICTLY controled by usa if they say NO Turkiye CAN NOT use them or even if they try "shits start to happends with platforms"
Malufunctions, Does not start to work, loss of control etc.......

 

[what]

Via private sources. The deal also includes cooperation on nuclear submarines under the shipbuilding tag. My source added that Erdogan is determined to sign the deal if the US rejects the Turkish F-16 deal. If given green light, the delivery of the second squadron of S-400 will happen in the short term. Other items might follow in the mid and long term as only the second squadron of S-400 is a concrete order and S-500 is a continuation of the S-400 project, other items are still not concrete. Russia also offers Egyptian fighters for a very good price as it seems like Egypt can't order the delivery of those. A tender for a fighter jet might be opened to see who places bids.

Before any of that and what you said before happens Erdogan will be out of the office.

 

[Fighter_35]

We relayed to long on the American train.

Agreed, American technology is mostly state of the art and reliable but also overpriced and overrated.

A Turkish airforce with F15's, F18 Superhornets or F14 Tomcats (or F22's yummy yummy) would be a superb wet dream.

But Russian tech and the former Soviets heavy industry always catched up with the American militairy industry with lesser money and userfriendlier simplicated tech.

Russian space and rocket technology are the best in the world. And Russian heavy battletanks, even the Germans couldn't beat them on the long run (despite every Tiger I and Tiger II tank destroyed almost 10 Soviet tanks)

They have one of the best jets in the world (SU-30, SU-34, SU-35, MiG-29, MiG-31, MiG-35) and of the most feared airdefence systems. Their airdefence systems such as the Triumph class are feared worldwide. A old fashioned S200 from 1950 shot down a vast superiour F117-Nighthawk in 1999 in Kosovo. A outdated S300 from the Assad regime shot a Israeli F15 in Syrian airspace a few years ago. Israel admitted the lock but said the plane crashes due technical problems and they retaliated with heavy attacks from F35's in Lebanese airspace, but no more Syrian airspace.

If S400 was junk, they would never make so much problems and put so much pressure on Turkey to cancel it.

Hell, Turkey is even scared to test the S400 or activate it because of angry Uncle Sam.

Russian weapons are more efficient and not overprized, you just get exactly for what you paid.

first , you need to be an economic power and you will start to produce all of your needs at home, then you can start to follow your own path. else you become cat of big nations which keep laser to play with cat!!
Russia is worse than usa, look at russia allied countris!! which one of them are good economically, technologically or militarilly!!
You become lapdog of russians instead of usa!!
atleast by usa, you get technology . Look at japan and korea, they can produce whatever they want on their own!!

 

[Ryder]

first , you need to be an economic power and you will start to produce all of your needs at home, then you can start to follow your own path. else you become cat of big nations which keep laser to play with cat!!
Russia is worse than usa, look at russia allied countris!! which one of them are good economically, technologically or militarilly!!
You become lapdog of russians instead of usa!!
atleast by usa, you get technology . Look at japan and korea, they can produce whatever they want on their own!!

Lets see SK and Japan having an independant foreign policy you will see how Murica takes their technology away.

Stop being naive.

 

[Fighter_35]

Lets see SK and Japan having an independant foreign policy you will see how Murica takes their technology away.

Stop being naive.

if they want to follow , why not?? they are big enough economically to apply their policies!!
they also want an umbrella against china at the moment!!
I do not see any people pf these 2 countries suffer economically!! or being close to usa brings bad things to these 2 countries!!
What is important for a country?? to secure its future and bring prosperity to its people!!
You can not bring good to your people wth current policies!! so we are not following a good path then??
When you can not secure the needs of your own country, how will you secure the needs of others??

 

[Ryder]

Erdogan does stupid shit but his a smokescreen to the whole Turkey/USA tensions.

These tensions have been going on for decades.

I mean they missile striked TCG Muavenet also captured Turkish soldiers and paraded them with hoods.

Lets not forget how they support pkk.

 

[Ecderha]

first , you need to be an economic power and you will start to produce all of your needs at home, then you can start to follow your own path. else you become cat of big nations which keep laser to play with cat!!
Russia is worse than usa, look at russia allied countris!! which one of them are good economically, technologically or militarilly!!
You become lapdog of russians instead of usa!!
atleast by usa, you get technology . Look at japan and korea, they can produce whatever they want on their own!!

Let me correct you sentence "Look at japan and korea, they can produce whatever they want on their own"

About Korea
1. Mostly they are and can produce own products.
2. They did not cross red line or at moment they dont want that will trigger usa to start warn them by Selling own products to other country which usa don't like

About Japan
1. You forget Main thing here-> After WWII Japan surrender to usa and FORCED to SIGN Documents and Especially military CLAUSES.
This CLAUSES still valid and bind Japan hands, so they must look at and ask usa.
2. Selling own military product to outsiders -> This thing is Closed. Actually they must obey and buy from usa. They dont have much choice here
3.There are some exepctions but those were agreed with usa before that

 

[Fighter_35]

Last time I have been to Turkey was in 2002.

So dont worry I dont constantly travel and enjoy or laugh at peoples misfortunes.

You are forgetting how geopolitics play out. Usa is hostile to Turkey because Turkey refuses to be their bitch.

There is your answer. Russia is no longer the enemy usa is chasing its now China.

Also usa always treats israel above turkey anyday. Israel gets their f35s before Turkey.

Usa also accuses Turkey of using child soldiers. Usa's foreign policy is a mess because its ran on conflicting grounds alao lobbying money.

Why do you think armenians, greeks or jews are lobbying ao much against Turkey because the diaspora clowns have a chip on their shoulder to Punish Turkey.

Israel gets f-35s before Turkey since it wanted lower blocks in terms of technology,!! you even do not know this!!
we wanted our first ones to be in block 4 level!!
If you dont come to Turkey, and dont live in here, why do you care ?? It does not affect you?*
Australia made a deal with usa, come on, leave that country!!
Countries look for their best!! we want to be one of the powerful countries, not a russian satellite country.
Any good decision made in the last 10 years for our people od for our country??* no!!
Then nothing is good for this s-400 deal too!!

 

[Ryder]

And you think that those abroad dont want their fammilies to be independent? Our fathers used so much of their resources to send back home instead of spending it on their own lifes. You confused bro

Bro his naive when it comes to geopolitics.

Usa and Turkey did not become hostile overnight.

Regardless of Turkey's internal problems and its economic problems. Does not change anything that the USA and Turkey are clashing in a lot of areas in the geopolitical arena.

S400/F35 issue is smokescreen to a lot of the issues that has been plaging Turkish and American relations for years.

Turkey and the USA are nothing more than allies in name. Russia does not even need to create a wedge because this separation is happening on its own.

 

[Yasar_TR]

if they want to follow , why not?? they are big enough economically to apply their policies!!
they also want an umbrella against china at the moment!!
I do not see any people pf these 2 countries suffer economically!! or being close to usa brings bad things to these 2 countries!!
What is important for a country?? to secure its future and bring prosperity to its people!!
You can not bring good to your people wth current policies!! so we are not following a good path then??
When you can not secure the needs of your own country, how will you secure the needs of others??

kısaca özgür karar alıcam diye , ülkenin geleceğine,milletin geleceğine hizmet etmiş olmuyorsun, aksine kötülük yapıyorsun. Bugün ülkede kalmak isteyen genç yok, gelmiş hala özgürlük konuşuyorsun!! sen kendi halkına özgürlük veremiyorsun ne politikasından bahsediyorsun??

Please communicate in English! Language of this forum is English!

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dear members, please refrain from personal insults and stay on topic. Political discussions can be made in a separate thread.

 

[Kartal1]

I understand all your protests, respect your fathers who worked hard but I want you to understand that the topic is the Turkish Air Forces. Please stay on topic or we may start to implement harsher measures like temporary thread bans. There are enough threads for casual discussions.

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[Yasar_TR]

In light of recent developments with respect to Erdogan’s statement on Russian collaboration in Turkish defence products and F16s and V70 upgrade etc.;
May be we need to look at the Chinese example.
West is blocking all vital technology regarding aircraft and engine technology to the Chinese. Russians won’t supply their latest engines to them because of previous Intellectual Property infringements. So they have to buy either complete planes with engines on them or purchase older style Russian engines like AL31 class, until they can manufacture their own.
We have a foothold in western jet engine manufacturing system with TEI and Kale. But we can’t yet produce a complete turbofan engine. Even though Russian systems are inferior to it’s western counterparts, Russians have fully functioning turbofans that they use on their fighter jets. If US puts a block on the supply of F110 engines for our first batch production of 4++ TFX fighters, using Russian engines may be an interim solution. Same goes for klimov RD-93 and Hurjet.
But what would Russians ask in return?
If we share our single crystal and blisk fan tech with them it may be the end of GE-TEI partnership.
Then there is the other side of the coin ; Could we produce f110 and f404 engines ourselves with the help and participation of GE? GE has numerous (over 80) manufacturing plants in different parts of the world. Could they supply TEI with parts, TEI currently not manufacturing? By-passing any US blockage?

 

[TheInsider]

According to some sources, Biden admin will accept the Turkish F-16 deal. But a harsh battle is expected at the congress and the congress will likely deny the contract similar to the Turkish national assembly denying access for American forces in the invasion of Iraq. Erdo will tell Biden at Rome that any negative approach means TR will look for alternatives. There is a good chance that a tender will be launched and fighter aircraft producers all over the world will be invited. The first term for bidders will be to come with a state guarantee regarding the delivery of the aircraft before any contract is signed. This means most of them will be disqualified or won't turn up for the tender. Alternatively, direct procurement from the Russian Federation is also on the table.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Any info about Turkish Hürkuş B trainer ,
air force has placed an order for 15 + 40 since 2017 , 5 years have passed and seems only 18 aircraft are produced ?!
Problems with engine puchase ? or other problems

 

[TheInsider]

Any info about Turkish Hürkuş B trainer ,
air force has placed an order for 15 + 40 since 2017 , 5 years have passed and seems only 18 aircraft are produced ?!
Problems with engine puchase ? or other problems

There won't be any procurement of Hürkuş until it is redesigned and remanufactured with composite parts.

 

[Anastasius]

"Agreed, American technology is mostly state of the art and reliable but also overpriced and overrated"
You should add the MAIN issue, It CAN NOT be used if usa say so. Which as history show it is happening ALL TIME.
Result is that you buy things which is STRICTLY controled by usa if they say NO Turkiye CAN NOT use them or even if they try "shits start to happends with platforms"
Malufunctions, Does not start to work, loss of control etc.......

That's true for pretty much any foreign technology. They all have backdoors and limitations on usage. Even Turkey, I'm pretty sure, doesn't give out TB2s without guarantees that they won't be used against Turkey itself.

It's also a poor argument because then pro-US commenters can simply say "Well, what's your problem with that? Are you planning to use those weapons against the US and their allies? Are you hostile to the US?" and there's no real way to get out of it other than admitting that "Yes, we do think the US is a potentially hostile force and we don't trust them." which just makes everything worse.

 

[Yasar_TR]

According to some sources, Biden admin will accept the Turkish F-16 deal. But a harsh battle is expected at the congress and the congress will likely deny the contract similar to the Turkish national assembly denying access for American forces in the invasion of Iraq. Erdo will tell Biden at Rome that any negative approach means TR will look for alternatives. There is a good chance that a tender will be launched and fighter aircraft producers all over the world will be invited. The first term for bidders will be to come with a state guarantee regarding the delivery of the aircraft before any contract is signed. This means most of them will be disqualified or won't turn up for the tender. Alternatively, direct procurement from the Russian Federation is also on the table.

Can’t Biden veto decision of congress to make the sale? (Congress and senate then has to find 2/3rd majority to overturn the veto)

 

[AWP]

most people here are pro-f35 only to oppose the turkish government , if Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu or any other opposition leader or even Ataturk did the same of what RTE did your opinion will be diffract than what it is right now .In this current case , no matter what any government do it will always be blamed and that's is normal , what's its not normal is throwing facts in the trash just because you hate the head of the state .

Honestly where were the people voices about the US denying the patriot system to turkey for almost 30 years blaming RTE for not looking into some other alternative other than the US ?most of the comment here is about some minor thing like the f-35 or s-400 leaving the big issue here .

The US Can't Be Trusted ​

look at how the US treating KSA it's top 5 ally and weaponry buyer . look at how they screwed France up . Egypt can't get it's s-35 out of fear from any sanctions yet if they canceled the s-35 deal and asked the US for f-15 or f-16 viper it will be rejected . or Iraq having no spare parts for it's f-16

what if turkey canceled the s-400 deal and returned it to be back to the us f-35 program , and just before the first patch delivery the US imposed sanctions because of pkk or god knows why . leaving turkey with no air defense or fighters or getting it's money back , and relation is bad with russia and world not trusting you anymore just like Australia . what would your opinion be?