TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[AWP]

If UAE pulled out of the F-35 deal , would they join the TF-X program ?

 

[Abdelaziz]

If UAE pulled out of the F-35 deal , would they join the TF-X program ?

This is impossible ... They are totally untrusted ... Till now they are against turkey's interests in libya , somalia and syria .. even qatar didnt join tfx programm

 

[Saithan]

This is impossible ... They are totally untrusted ... Till now they are against turkey's interests in libya , somalia and syria .. even qatar didnt join tfx programm

I think it's understandable. Fighter jet is not an UAV. Turkey has had uav programs just like many other countries all the way back to the 90's.

And we've discussed the uav topic quite a lot and on PDF, so I am not going to go into who was favoured and others pushed out of the way.

And to this day Hürkus is not flying with Turkish engine. Nor will Hürjet, but everyone talks about having our own propulsion system. Like so many others I'd like to see those planes fly with Turkish engine.

 

[Philip the Arab]

If UAE pulled out of the F-35 deal , would they join the TF-X program ?

No, it's more likely they join KF-21, or Su-75 before that especially considering UAE-Korea relations.


Major issue between US and UAE was proprietary weapon integration on the F-35 which if you have read my threads is a huge issue. UAE intends to develop A2A missiles and is currently developing cruise missiles for fighter aircraft.

 

[Saithan]

No, it's more likely they join KF-21, or Su-75 before that especially considering UAE-Korea relations.


Major issue between US and UAE was proprietary weapon integration on the F-35 which if you have read my threads is a huge issue. UAE intends to develop A2A missiles and is currently developing cruise missiles for fighter aircraft.

Wouldn't they pick Rafale and perhaps wait for 6th gen. They'd still aim for a 5th, but not so hard as I don't imagine they'll be going head to head with Israel. and no one else in the region will have something that can challenge them.

Especially considering how uav/ucav is changing doctrins. e.g. loyal wingman and the likes.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Wouldn't they pick Rafale and perhaps wait for 6th gen. They'd still aim for a 5th, but not so hard as I don't imagine they'll be going head to head with Israel. and no one else in the region will have something that can challenge them.

They want to replace Mirage with Rafale by 2027-2028, and F-16 with another fighter by likely the same year.

They dont want 2010s tech, they want the best of the best when its available and are attempting to copy the Israeli strategy of an overwhelmingly powerful air force to compensate for their small population.

Some more info about their air force from an insider below.

"Most are operationally decent, and some are exceptionally brilliant. On the whole, from ex-PAF pilots who have written the course syllabus for their OCU phases....the Emirati fighter pilots have above average motor skills, with the cockpit environment not being challenging for them.
And lately they have had more females in their fighter squadrons, 2 on Mirage 2000-9s and 3 on F-16s. One of them was most recently the OC of a Viper squadron."

 

[Huelague]

If UAE pulled out of the F-35 deal , would they join the TF-X program ?

They will buy Rafale.

 

[Indos]

They will buy Rafale.

They have already bought Rafale, but this for Mirage 2000 replacement, not expansion or replacement of their F 16 squadrons. I see UAE will likely start doing another acquisition program in 2032-2035 for F 16 replacement

 

[mulj]

This is impossible ... They are totally untrusted ... Till now they are against turkey's interests in libya , somalia and syria .. even qatar didnt join tfx programm

in politics everything is possible when interests align, assumption above is not unrealistic with todays trends and climate, Turkey is on the verge of becoming major weapons supplier to the muslim states which will happen eventually with patience and God will.

 

[Combat-Master]

This is impossible ... They are totally untrusted ... Till now they are against turkey's interests in libya , somalia and syria .. even qatar didnt join tfx programm

I wouldn't think so either, I don't think Turkey will sell TFX to those who are not fully aligned with Turkey's Interests with a common goal - we can see how they collude with Turkey's Adversaries.

TFX is going to have a lot of secrets, from it's RAM coatings and various other instruments and sensors on-board - It's going to be Turkey's main air superiority fighter for the next 30 years or so, it would be absolute madness to sell such a plane to puppets.

 

[mulj]

I wouldn't think so, I don't think Turkey will sell TFX to those who are not fully aligned with Turkey's Interests with a common goal - we can see how they collude with Turkey's Adversaries.

TFX is going to have a lot of secrets, from it's RAM coatings and various other instruments and sensors on-board - It's going to be Turkey's main air superiority fighter for the next 30 years or so, it would be absolute madness to sell such a plane to puppets.

even so, still much more appealing then USA/China/Russian offers which are either limited and monitored usage, crippled versions and in china case total puzzle what you will get at the end.
as long as you allow electronic/weapons customization that is clear advantage, i suppose that should be incorporated in life span vision of TFX for more competitiveness once it enters international markets but that is mid term future, it will be more exciting to follow what will happen with Hurjet in that regard.

 

[Combat-Master]

even so, still much more appealing then USA/China/Russian offers which are either limited and monitored usage, crippled versions and in china case total puzzle what you will get at the end.
as long as you allow electronic/weapons customization that is clear advantage, i suppose that should be incorporated in life span vision of TFX for more competitiveness once it enters international markets but that is mid term future, it will be more exciting to follow what will happen with Hurjet in that regard.

That's the thing, when countries buy Anka or TB2 they know they are getting products that are tried, tested and have met battlefield conditions while complying and exceeding NATO standards. TFX will be no different in it's development, production and eventual usage phase. However, sales of such strategic systems should always be about the long term. Gulf countries are too volatile, they better get ready for the next 20 years it's going to get rocky when the world switches over to EV and their Oil industry takes a nose dive - their Africa plans aren't going so smoothly either..

As for Hurjet, me too - it's my favourite project!

 

[mulj]

That's the thing, when countries buy Anka or TB2 they know they are getting products that are tried, tested and have met battlefield conditions while complying and exceeding NATO standards. TFX will be no different in it's development, production and eventual usage phase. However, sales of such strategic systems should always be about the long term. Gulf countries are too volatile, they better get ready for the next 20 years it's going to get rocky when the world switches over to EV and their Oil industry takes a nose dive - their Africa plans aren't going so smoothly either..

As for Hurjet, me too - it's my favourite project!

agree with that, tfx is like cherry on top of the cream and should be preserved like that but on the other hand it is strong and hard to resist factor which could be used as part of your strategic geo policy diplomacy, of course that is beside its primary purpose. anyway there are lot of other friendly countries which are eagerly wait for such machine, it would be more bonus for Arabs then Turkey frankly speaking.

 

[Huelague]

I wouldn't think so either, I don't think Turkey will sell TFX to those who are not fully aligned with Turkey's Interests with a common goal - we can see how they collude with Turkey's Adversaries.

TFX is going to have a lot of secrets, from it's RAM coatings and various other instruments and sensors on-board - It's going to be Turkey's main air superiority fighter for the next 30 years or so, it would be absolute madness to sell such a plane to puppets.

If UAE would say, I want to buy 80 TFX. No one would say, no. ($ 8+ billion)

 

[Brokengineer]

If UAE would say, I want to buy 80 TFX. No one would say, no. ($ 8+ billion)

It makes sense to pay 100m usd per aircraft if they are bold enough to pay most of them upfront for development purposes and they should not be involved in manufacturing process and do not claim ip rights.
They could only be capital partner of project. Even this would not satify government since you are conisdering selling a stealth plane.
If Turkey succeed a true 5th gen tfx, its agreement price would be 200m+ with training logistics and ammunition.
However,neither Turkey wants to sell its 5 gen fighter, nor UAE wants to lift the capital burden of developing a possible 5th gen aircraft .

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Considering a game-changing system such as TFX in question, which will contain complex sensors, artificial intelligence softwares and many industrial secrets in Radar and Electronic Warfare areas will be kept, Turkey needs to be truly selective. The attitude of the country which this system will be sold towards Turkey, as well as its relations with its neighbors and its problems with other Turkey-friendly countries should be evaluated in detail. While the sale of even a tactical drone to Ukraine arouse discomfort in the Russian authorities, guess how difficult it would be if we had TFX, which would be now in mass production, and if Ukraine wanted to buy this system. Therefore as the capabilities of the systems increase, the scope of the problems they will create in terms of sales will increase at the same rate.

In this context, it seems like a difficult possibility for UAE to buy TfX in today's political environment but what happens in the future will be apparent in relations between two states.

 

[Zafer]

For the sales of TFX to high paying customers what the South Korea does with the sales of KFX to Indonesia can be an example worth noting. Indonesia gets the plane without the stealth features. This makes the airplane less offensive and more defensive. TFX with a stealthy engine and stealthy coating but lacking some other stealth features like the covering of junctions between parts can be left out for the purposeful lack of extreme stealth can be an acceptable proposition as this will make it hard for the plane to be used for deep strike missions.

 

[Indos]

For the sales of TFX to high paying customers what the South Korea does with the sales of KFX to Indonesia can be an example worth noting. Indonesia gets the plane without the stealth features. This makes the airplane less offensive and more defensive. TFX with a stealthy engine and stealthy coating but lacking some other stealth features like the covering of junctions between parts can be left out for the purposeful lack of extreme stealth can be an acceptable proposition as this will make it hard for the plane to be used for deep strike missions.

Who said IFX doesnt have Stealth feature ? KF21 and IFX will be similar. KF21/IFX will be developed in stages. Latest development reveals about the current plan which is if the development is successful, it will be developed into 6 generation fighter. How come it will be different if 50 % of wings and tail components of all KF21/IFX will be produced in Indonesia Aerospace ?

Indonesia is the only South Korea strategic partner in Asia by the way

 

[Zafer]

Who said IFX doesnt have Stealth feature ? KF21 and IFX will be similar. KF21/IFX will be developed in stages. Latest development reveals about the current plan which is if the development is successful, it will be developed into 6 generation fighter. How come it will be different if 50 % of wings and tail components of all KF21/IFX will be produced in Indonesia Aerospace ?

Indonesia is the only South Korea strategic partner in Asia by the way

Are you saying that the IFX and KFX are one and the same? There must be some difference, right, why not tell about them. There are different levels of stealth and the US is not willing to allow a highly stealth plane to be given to Indonesia in the current state of affairs.

 

[Indos]

Are you saying that the IFX and KFX are one and the same. There must be some difference, right, why not tell about them. There are different levels of stealth and the US is not willing to allow a highly stealth plane to be given to Indonesia in the current state of affairs.

It is similar, I can show you the news from comment from KF21/IFX project manager from Indonesia. Previously there should be a different in refueling system where IFX will use probe and KF21 will use boom system, but later this year it is confirmed that it will be the same, both using boom system.

Stealth is in the skin ( fuselage ) while Indonesia Aerospace will produce the fuselage components for all KF21/IFX, not only Indonesian IFX. The detail I have already posted above this post.

USA doesnt provide 4 critical technology where one of them will be AESA and this will be developed by Korean with Israel assistance.

The problem with USA in term of Indonesia participation is not due to the application, but TOT coming from USA where it is part of USA promise to Korea after SK bough F 35 from USA. You do understand the difference between TOT and application right ?