Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[FPXAllen]

Don't forget to weigh the fact that KF-21 is still an experimental fighter

It is still prone to delays, substandard performance, etc, ---> bigger risk

2. How can you say Rafale is not a diversification move (oc assuming it is one of the considerations) while you also mentioned the history of TNI being embargoed by RUS and US, and now we are being targeted by CAATSA----> It is better to have more than one option

Keep in mind that Dassault did withheld parts for the ROCAF's fleet of Mirage 2000s after being asked to by the PRC.

Personally, I don't really care whether we'll get F-16V or Rafale or whatever as long as it can be utilized by our air force, although I'm inclined to see the Russian option as something that will burden them more in the long run.

But still, whining about Prabowo and whoever in the parliament got benefits form his deal with France for Rafale does bring this into question: if our current MoD is not him, and the deal is not with France, can anyone really say that nobody in the parliament will reap benefits for their own from that?

Anyway, from the way I see it, the takeaway messages are these:

1. It's not only in Indonesia where military's preferences got squashed by politics. This happens everywhere.

2. As long as we source our military procurements from any foreign countries, there will always be chances for the embargo hammer to fall on us. This much is clear.

3. Thus, the best way for us to build our military strength other than expanding our own defense industries is by diversifying where we buy our arsenal from. Yes it will create supply chain and logistic nightmares (not to mention more chances for corruptions etc, especially if it's not being controlled and monitored closely) but I dare to say that's also one the consequences of our international politics standpoint.

4. In the case of KF-21, while most of its components (like jet engine, radar, other sensors and combat/counter-measure systems for example) are still out of of our capability to produce domestically, but this project is still way more valuable than just some 50 fighters that we're planning to acquire in the next 10 years or so. While it's true that we still don't know whether it will ready to be mass produced due to the possibility of delays and some other unforeseen problems, it still holds a very strategic value for us who desperately need to expand the capabilities of our national defense industries.

 

[Lordimperator]

Keep in mind that Dassault did withheld parts for the ROCAF's fleet of Mirage 2000s after being asked to by the PRC.

Then that should be applied to India's too. As long as we are on the same boats...

 

[Lordimperator]

For example, remember when we reject their request to host P-8?

Did we reject "hibah" radar with the same reason to? Or else?

 

[JATOSINT]

Did we reject "hibah" radar with the same reason to? Or else?

Did we?

 

[Madokafc]

Personally, I don't really care whether we'll get F-16V or Rafale or whatever as long as it can be utilized by our air force, although I'm inclined to see the Russian option as something that will burden them more in the long run.

But still, whining about Prabowo and whoever in the parliament got benefits form his deal with France for Rafale does bring this into question: if our current MoD is not him, and the deal is not with France, can anyone really say that nobody in the parliament will reap benefits for their own from that?

Anyway, from the way I see it, the takeaway messages are these:

1. It's not only in Indonesia where military's preferences got squashed by politics. This happens everywhere.

2. As long as we source our military procurements from any foreign countries, there will always be chances for the embargo hammer to fall on us. This much is clear.

3. Thus, the best way for us to build our military strength other than expanding our own defense industries is by diversifying where we buy our arsenal from. Yes it will create supply chain and logistic nightmares (not to mention more chances for corruptions etc, especially if it's not being controlled and monitored closely) but I dare to say that's also one the consequences of our international politics standpoint.

4. In the case of KF-21, while most of its components (like jet engine, radar, other sensors and combat/counter-measure systems for example) are still out of of our capability to produce domestically, but this project is still way more valuable than just some 50 fighters that we're planning to acquire in the next 10 years or so. While it's true that we still don't know whether it will ready to be mass produced due to the possibility of delays and some other unforeseen problems, it still holds a very strategic value for us who desperately need to expand the capabilities of our national defense industries.

The Turks avoiding the possibility of total ban hammer of their F-16 fleets by having the complete production line for fast moving sparepart and rigourous license agreement for many major parts including engine!! to prevent such condition implemented by their US counterpart. And they do that without having typical Korean drama like what happened to Indonesian KF 21 program, and they get the chance to exported F16 from TAI production line to Egypt and overhauling Pakistan fleets! Talking about vision and benefit for local industry.

On one side,

KF21, F-16V or Rafale or F15EX as long as you don't have extensive supporting industry and cooperation terms to license and experience to producing critical items and such, the terms of ban hammer always lingering on the heads.

 

[Madokafc]

Did we?

Yes, they rejected Lockmart Made Radar Grant offer

 

[Madokafc]

This the year 2020-2024 is clearer in here. This for domestic acquisition for Air Force.

View attachment 37678

Nothing in the planing is stay same, just saying. There is a lot of revision for the Air Force requirement since mid 2020

Budget adjustment request had been Made and Sri Mulyani herself had giving leeway for next year Defense budget as there is windfall from commodity boom lately

 

[Gary]

Again, it seems that rules again and again had been breached while I am not aware, so please read the forum rules

Terms and rules

You must agree to these terms and rules before using the site.

defencehub.live

in particular this rules:

Use of foreign languages

DefenceHub welcomes all users from the world; however, for ease of communication all posts should be in English. Use of other languages is acceptable, if proper translation is provided within the post.

Reporting

A member's post that violates the forum rules doesn't give you the same right, in case of such a violation please use the report button.

Due to the already repeated warnings and still some members posted non-English or no proper translation provided, next time it will be outright deletion, one more thing, do not tag mods, use the report button.

 

[Madokafc]

South African Air Force Gripen fighter jets are grounded since September and they won’t fly again until late January 2022 at the earliest. Here’s why. - The Aviation Geek Club

South African Air Force Gripen fighter jets are grounded since September and they won’t fly again until late January 2022 at the earliest

theaviationgeekclub.com

The South African case better to be lesson, no matter what to including ILS in any buying package is a must. Then we should asking for maintenance rights

 

[FPXAllen]

The Turks

is in NATO.

Nuff said.

 

[Madokafc]

is in NATO.

Nuff said.

NATO or not, the Turks itself is had facing arms embargo by the US and western allies in 1975 through 1978. So their case is quite relevant to our research and development program of military industry

 

[wahyu845]

The Turks avoiding the possibility of total ban hammer of their F-16 fleets by having the complete production line for fast moving sparepart and rigourous license agreement for many major parts including engine!! to prevent such condition implemented by their US counterpart. And they do that without having typical Korean drama like what happened to Indonesian KF 21 program, and they get the chance to exported F16 from TAI production line to Egypt and overhauling Pakistan fleets! Talking about vision and benefit for local industry.

On one side,

KF21, F-16V or Rafale or F15EX as long as you don't have extensive supporting industry and cooperation terms to license and experience to producing critical items and such, the terms of ban hammer always lingering on the heads.

if we receive the offer of joint production of F 21 like india from lockheed, I think it is more interesting than buying some F 15 & Rafala or KFX program maybe

 

[Indos]

if we receive the offer of joint production of F 21 like india from lockheed, I think it is more interesting than buying some F 15 & Rafala or KFX program maybe

Future is STEALTH

Australia has already had over 40 F 35 ( from 100 total order), Singapore is waiting their first 4 F 35 order, and China is currently developing Naval based fighter from JF31 program that later will be put on their Aircraft Carriers.

 

[Lordimperator]

if we receive the offer of joint production of F 21 like india from lockheed

Like the idea, but we need to buy a large fleet, 100+ fighters like what they offered to India

 

[Gary]

Future is STEALTH

yep, other than that is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

 

[this is crunch]

Just crossed to my mind, what if the USA use the israel card over the F15EX?

 

[Umigami]

Future is STEALTH

Australia has already had over 40 F 35 ( from 100 total order), Singapore is waiting their first 4 F 35 order, and China is currently developing Naval based fighter from JF31 program that later will be put on their Aircraft Carriers.

yep, other than that is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

No I don't think so.
Stealth fighter proof to be too expensive to maintain and operate. And too precious to be lost.

The future will be mix Stealth and Non Stealth.

 

[Lordimperator]

No I don't think so.
Stealth fighter proof to be too expensive to maintain and operate. And too precious to be lost.

The future will be mix Stealth and Non Stealth.

How about manned and unmanned stealth,
Ofc with the limited budget stealth and nonstealth would be inevitable

 

[Indos]

No I don't think so.
Stealth fighter proof to be too expensive to maintain and operate. And too precious to be lost.

The future will be mix Stealth and Non Stealth.

KF21 program target price is 60-70 million USD per plane, much cheaper than Rafale. For both Indonesia and Korea, KF 21 maintenance will be cheaper than maintaining Rafale since many of fuselage parts produced inside the country, we will deal with vendors directly for engines and other non fuselage components. PTDI will be licensed MRO company for KF 21 that include refurbished and continuous upgrade.

So far KF21/IFX program is run on schedule ( even 2 months ahead ) and the total cost is even reduced further. We cannot compare it with F 35 program and F 22 program, you can just compare the cost of the programs with KF21/IFX program.

We also will likely operate F 16 and Sukhoi until 2035-2040, fourth generation fighters will still operate in Indonesian sky for quite long. We can add T50i Golden Eagle for both advance training and low cost patrolling just like what has been done by our Hawk squadrons.

In 2035, China aircraft carriers will likely be equipped with JF31 naval version and this type of fighters that will be used by China in SCS after they make good amount of AC in 2035.

In my opinion the future is manned stealth and unmanned stealth and non stealth (UCAV). Including this one

 

[HellFireIndo]

KF21 program target price is 60-70 million USD per plane, much cheaper than Rafale. For both Indonesia and Korea, KF 21 maintenance will be cheaper than maintaining Rafale since many of fuselage parts produced inside the country, we will deal with vendors directly for engines and other non fuselage components. PTDI will be licensed MRO company for KF 21 that include refurbished and continuous upgrade.

So far KF21/IFX program is run on schedule ( even 2 months ahead ) and the total cost is even reduced further. We cannot compare it with F 35 program and F 22 program, you can just compare the cost of the programs with KF21/IFX program.

We also will likely operate F 16 and Sukhoi until 2035-2040, fourth generation fighters will still operate in Indonesian sky for quite long. We can add T50i Golden Eagle for both advance training and low cost patrolling just like what has been done by our Hawk squadrons.

In 2035, China aircraft carriers will likely equipped with JF31 naval version and this type of fighters that will be used by China in SCS after they make good amount of AC in 2035.

In my opinion the future is manned stealth and unmanned stealth and non stealth (UCAV). Including this one

View attachment 37723

I am honestly confused with our UAV/UGV strategic plan, we got CH-4, Elang Hitam prototype, and then "rumors" that Panglima is showing interest in MQ-1C. What exactly are we doing here?