Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Indos]

I am honestly confused with our UAV/UGV strategic plan, we got CH-4, Elang Hitam prototype, and then "rumors" that Panglima is showing interest in MQ-1C. What is exactly are we doing here?

Elang Hitam is long term project (the year 2025 is the completion of the program based on our plan), CH4 is for short term needs and build our Air Force personnel capability in operating this UCAV while in the same time learn to use military strategy in using UCAV. We only buy 6 CH4 UCAV by the way. Previous mid class and long range UAV we have from Israel is only for surveilance. This order is also good for our indigenous UCAV program as we can see the comparison between China and ours in real flight that is beneficial to further develop our Elang Hitam Male drone.

I dont know with MQ-1C, but it can improve short term capability and it is in small quantity, we can use the platform to do reverse engineering for our own MALE UCAV program.

 

[Umigami]

KF21 program target price is 60-70 million USD per plane, much cheaper than Rafale. For both Indonesia and Korea, KF 21 maintenance will be cheaper than maintaining Rafale since many of fuselage parts produced inside the country, we will deal with vendors directly for engines and other non fuselage components. PTDI will be licensed MRO company for KF 21 that include refurbished and continuous upgrade.

So far KF21/IFX program is run on schedule ( even 2 months ahead ) and the total cost is even reduced further. We cannot compare it with F 35 program and F 22 program, you can just compare the cost of the programs with KF21/IFX program.

We also will likely operate F 16 and Sukhoi until 2035-2040, fourth generation fighters will still operate in Indonesian sky for quite long. We can add T50i Golden Eagle for both advance training and low cost patrolling just like what has been done by our Hawk squadrons.

In 2035, China aircraft carriers will likely be equipped with JF31 naval version and this type of fighters that will be used by China in SCS after they make good amount of AC in 2035.

In my opinion the future is manned stealth and unmanned stealth and non stealth (UCAV). Including this one

View attachment 37723

Which block?
Block 1 isn't a Stealth craft at all.

 

[Umigami]

I am honestly confused with our UAV/UGV strategic plan, we got CH-4, Elang Hitam prototype, and then "rumors" that Panglima is showing interest in MQ-1C. What exactly are we doing here?

He want mq1c because it can be used as extra eyes for Apache

 

[R4duga]

I am honestly confused with our UAV/UGV strategic plan, we got CH-4, Elang Hitam prototype, and then "rumors" that Panglima is showing interest in MQ-1C. What exactly are we doing here?

besides aren't we were offered the newer one that were essentialy a Hellfire Truck (16x hellfire payload), MQ-1 On steroids, back then General Atomics spokeperson told they were working with a new variants of MQ-1C that were able to take-off and land on an unpaved runway useful for country like indonesia and philippines, or even for carrier borne operation such as that used for italians LHD.

EXCLUSIVE: General Atomics is secretly flying a new, heavily armed drone - Breaking Defense

The new yet-unnamed drone can carry up to 16 Hellfire missiles at a time — double the load of an MQ-1C Gray Eagle.

breakingdefense.com

Secret US drone can carry 16 Hellfire missiles - Asia Times

It will fly at a high altitude. You will not see it, you will not hear it. Until it's too late. In fact, it will be the bringer of death, like no covert

asiatimes.com

General Atomics spokesman C. Mark Brinkley declined to comment on this story.

The new drone, which was funded with internal investment funds, features key enhancements meant to make it more suitable to operate in austere conditions. It needs less than 800 feet to take off or land the aircraft, making it possible to launch and recover it from rough airfields, dirt roads, dry riverbeds, or possibly even onboard ships, one source said.

"The company has also tailored the new drone to fill capability gaps from potential international customers like the Italian navy for shipboard operations, the source said. It could also be a good fit for countries like Indonesia and the Philippines that may be operating in islands without developed airfields or paved runways."

a month or a couple of week after, they Revealed the MQ-1 Mojave.

 

[Indos]

Which block?
Block 1 isn't a Stealth craft at all.

It is clearly more Stealthy than Rafale by seeing on just the design. The fuselage component also better hide the engine heat already as stated by Indonesian program manager in a media. Four missile in the belly is stored in semi recessed place that can reduce both RCS and heat.

It will be developed into capable Stealth one inshaAllah. We will not likely stop in block 1 but continue until block 3 and even further block as Presiden has even stated KF21/IFX as Indonesia backbone fighter until 2045 and I believe later President will likely follow similar vision particularly if the program is quite successful. There is law created to support domestic defense product already.

I believe the block 1 and 2 belly can be upgradable into block 3 belly that can insert missiles inside completely since the belly is made in modular and replaceable, something that you cannot do with Rafale. I also think we will start from block 2 as block 2 will be ready in 2028 ( based on plan).

 

[Umigami]

It is clearly more Stealthy than Rafale by seeing on just the design. The fuselage component is also better hided the engine heat already as stated by Indonesian program manager in a media. Four missile in the belly is stored in semi recessed place that can reduce both RCS and heat.

It will be developed into capable Stealth one. We will not likely stop in block 1 but continue until block 3 and Presiden has even stated KF21/IFX as backbone fighter until 2045 and I believe later President will follow similar vision particularly if the program is quite successful. There is law created to support domestic defense product already.

I believe the block 1 and 2 belly can be upgradable into block 3 belly than can insert missiles inside completely since the belly is made in modular and replaceable, something that you cannot do with Rafale. I also think we will start from block 2 as block 2 will be ready in 2028 ( based on plan).

Then it still not a stealth jet yet, and how do you know Stealth Boramae doesn't end up more pricey than any other stealth fighter on market at that point?

About Rafale, its SPECTRA active stealth already has proven track record in Libya and Syria.

Stop exaggerating things that not really exists yet!

 

[Maverick]

whatsoever...Boramae didn't fly yet. that's the fact.
so can't comparable with other jet fighters already exist. eventhough T-50 Golden Eagle.

But if we talking only on paper tech. that's OK

 

[Indos]

The one that should be compared now is not Rafale and KF21/IFX, but rather F16V and Rafale as this is the acquisition that we should make for 2020-2024 period. KF 21/IFX is our long term program that inshaAllah will reach mass production stage in 2026-2027 and block 2 development is expected to be completed in 2028.

Which one is more efficient order between F 16 V and Rafale for 1.1 billion USD ? Not just price, but also other thing like already infrastructure, operating cost, the fact that pressing needs is for former F5 squadron in Madiun where F 16 squadron has already been there, the willingness of LM to let Falcon Star program conducted in Indonesia, along with necessary infrastructure and also trained man force in term of maintenance and operation, existing fleet, etc

 

[Lordimperator]

How many k/ifx block 1 will be bought by Korean and our govt?

 

[Indos]

How many k/ifx block 1 will be bought by Korean and our govt?

Indonesia is only obligated to buy KF21/IFX for around 48 units, so actually we can start from block 2. Block 2 will come up just 2 years after development of block 1 completed in 2026 ( based on plan)

 

[Umigami]

How many k/ifx block 1 will be bought by Korean and our govt?

48 units, but I hope they aren't all full air supperiority only block 1.

 

[JATOSINT]

Stop exaggerating things that not really exists yet!

Exactly

 

[chiphocks]

Then it still not a stealth jet yet, and how do you know Stealth Boramae doesn't end up more pricey than any other stealth fighter on market at that point?

About Rafale, its SPECTRA active stealth already has proven track record in Libya and Syria.

Stop exaggerating things that not really exists yet!

Exactly

Nice,
8-10 years from now when KFX/IFX do meet what it designed for n also the price, it would be a little bit outdated to the other existing 5th or even 6th gen fighters
and when they or Indonesia trying to make the 6th gen, still, are you guy's wanna say the same thing about it??

because it doesn't exist, yet....

 

[Umigami]

Nice,
8-10 years from now when KFX/IFX do meet what it designed for n also the price, it would be a little bit outdated to the other existing 5th or even 6th gen fighters
and when they or Indonesia trying to make the 6th gen, still, are you guy's wanna say the same thing about it??

because it doesn't exist, yet....

Well they are still trying to make it, so YEAH it doesn't exist yet.

 

[Lordimperator]

because it doesn't exist, yet

NGAD : smirk

 

[JATOSINT]

Nice,
8-10 years from now when KFX/IFX do meet what it designed for n also the price, it would be a little bit outdated to the other existing 5th or even 6th gen fighters
and when they or Indonesia trying to make the 6th gen, still, are you guy's wanna say the same thing about it??

because it doesn't exist, yet....

Of course, if it does meet what it is designed for, we will welcome it with an open arms

Nobody says we should abandon the project or throw away the general idea of developing our own weapon systems

What @Umigami and I are trying to say is not to exaggerate something that doesn't exist yet, especially when our resource-limited air force is already in dire need of modernisation

 

[Indos]

What @Umigami and I are trying to say is not to exaggerate something that doesn't exist yet, especially when our resource-limited air force is already in dire need of modernisation

Then buy F 16 V and if possible combination of new F 16 V and second hand and refurbished F 16 V, why some members here is to obsessed with Rafale ? It is because we have what you said resource limited air force, then we should make all of the acquisition budget we have cost effective and efficient.

At this moment, the productive discussion should be between F 16 V and Rafale/F15 as we are about to use that 1.1 billion USD foreign loan for MRCA program. And that is the total foreign loan approval for 2020-2024 ( for MRCA program) if we refer to what Bappenas and Finance Minister have already approved.

Any way I dont exaggerate, what I said is based on current development and design. The plane is already exist any way

 

[Umigami]

Time stamp 22:45, wow I know they got their hand on our Mig but I don't know about S75.

 

[JATOSINT]

Then buy F 16 V and if possible combination of new F 16 V and second hand and refurbished F 16 V, why some members here is to obsessed with Rafale ? It is because we have what you said resource limited air force, then we should make all of the acquisition budget we have cost effective and efficient.

At this moment, the productive discussion is between F 16 V and Rafale/F15 as we are about to use that 1.1 billion USD foreign loan for MRCA program. And that is the total budget for 2020-2024 if we refer to what Bappenas and Defense Minister has already approved.

Any way I dont exaggerate, what I said is based on current development and design. The plane is already exist any way

Because for now there is no point talking or whining about F-16V anymore because MoD and AF have said on many occasions that what they are after are the Rafale and F-15

In short, maybe some of us are tired of discussing things that have already been discussed in the past few years (in this forum, formil kasus, FB, etc)

 

[Indos]

Because for now there is no point talking or whining about F-16V anymore because MoD and AF have said on many occasions that what they are after are the Rafale and F-15

Well development is still going on and we have both Bappenas and Finance Ministry as other influential ministry for defense equipment acquisition and according to AH Finance Ministry hasnt approved that 1.1 billion USD only for 6 Rafale without any weapons. President office is also another factor.

The contract hasnt been effective yet and we are living in a democratic country, so there is still points to suggest better acquisition plan. The previous contract ( some said it as still in LOI stage) will also about to expire within days