Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502487293705461762

 

[FPXAllen]

What about Harimau? Does it have this separate ammo storage with blowout panels?

CT-CV weapon system 105 120 mm turret armored cockerill gun | Belgium Belgian light heavy weapons UK | Belgian army military equipment vehicle UK

CT-CV weapon system 105 120 mm turret armoured armored cockerill gun vehicle design development production manufacturer Belgium Belgian industry CMI Defence

www.armyrecognition.com

There's a small diagram towards the bottom of the page that gives an idea of what CMI's CT-CV turret bustle ammo storage looks like.

Also this:

CMI 3000 series like the one used in Harimau, taken from this:

https://johncockerill.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/John-Cockerill_Defense_3000_series_EN.pdf

Front hull storage, no.
Bustle behind turret, yes.

Like Leopard 2, then.

In any case, given its intended purpose, Harimau wasn't designed to go into slugfest against enemy's MBTs. I would think that in a direct fire engagement, their heaviest weight and armed opponents will be like similar tanks of the same weight class and gun caliber - and even this is more of a matter of which one spotted which first as well as which tank can fire an accurate shot first.

However, this does not mean that Harimau can't be used to take on heavier tanks especially if combined with some method of long range monitoring and target recognition (like UAV, for example), and smart munition - these two should come as standard in every Harimau battalions. The point is, given the advantage of long-range, indirect-fire capability provided by CMI's turret, our army should exploit this advantage fully to avoid short-range, direct fire engagement against strong opponents as best as they can.

Btw, AMX 13 itself is already an obsolote platform to begin with, with their tin can armor they are not even expected to face the heavy machine gun rounds or splintered srhapnel. Thus not to mention their obsolote firing system and Ignition process. If actually they decided to replace those Oldies with T72 families, i just hope they can provide additional protection system and proper training and doctrine about infantry cooperation with cavalry.

And better to start to built storage to hoard excess and older arms

If the top brass actually thinking of acquiring T-72s, unless if their turret replaced with the one in T-90M:

...and replacing that 125 mm cannon that uses separate propellant and projectile system with, say NATO standard 120 mm cannon, then I'll just shake my head in disbelief.

 

[Umigami]

Actually, those 2 Russian tanks on the back had a pretty good job countering Ukrainian ambush.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502398914330308608

Our army has to train react in situation like this too.

 

[Madokafc]

Actually, those 2 Russian tanks on the back had a pretty good job countering Ukrainian ambush.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502398914330308608

Our army has to train react in situation like this too.

Their battlefield intelligent gathering capability is mediocre to say, what the fuck is the use of their unmanned aerial vehicles or other battlefield floating radar devices like their ELINT and surveilance aircraft system? Azeris got a better tactical maneuver compared to them as they are capable to bypassing heavily fortified Armenian position and push through the most weakest ones using armored formation. Though compared to the NATO countries standard they are still fallshort but Russian seems so amateur.

 

[R4duga]

Actually, those 2 Russian tanks on the back had a pretty good job countering Ukrainian ambush.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1502398914330308608

Our army has to train react in situation like this too.

do russian 125mm have canister shot round (simply a big ass calibre birdshot/buckshot round for anti personnel) like it's western counterpart ? it can be really useful in such close encounter like that, thankfully our kaplan MT indeed have capability to fire such munition.

looks like the T-72 who firing back also get hit on it's front.

 

[Madokafc]

Btw, almost all of our armored vehicles is very vulnerable in conventional peer conflict, the bulk of our inventory is mostly cold war relic including those Leopard 2, but many coming from the early phase of cold war like M113, saracen, Saladin, Ferret, AMX13, AMX VTT, Scorpion, stormer, V150, even those Anoa is had been influenced by French VAB...

 

[R4duga]

Do you know what kind of 105 mm tank ammunition Pindad will license from Nexter?

PT. Pindad (Persero) - Pindad Tandatangani MoU Terkait Munisi Dengan Nexter Group

pindad.com

this i don't know, we were hoping that CMI 105mm would be equipped with falarick , however ukraine right now is facing hardship and those falarick may never been able to sold, i was surprised NEXTER actually have a gun launched 120mm stand off ATGM called as POLYNEGE and it can be fired from NATO 120mm.

 

[Madokafc]

this i don't know, we were hoping that CMI 105mm would be equipped with falarick , however ukraine right now is facing hardship and those falarick may never been able to sold, i was surprised NEXTER actually have a gun launched 120mm stand off ATGM called as POLYNEGE and it can be fired from NATO 120mm.
View attachment 40883

French? that's must be expensive

 

[FPXAllen]

this i don't know, we were hoping that CMI 105mm would be equipped with falarick , however ukraine right now is facing hardship and those falarick may never been able to sold

Falarick isn't the only 105 mm gun-launched ATGM in the market, though. In fact this one has a longer range and probably a better overall performance than Falarick:

It's kosher btw.

 

[Lordimperator]

It's kosher btw

Always good

 

[Stuka Dive]

Their battlefield intelligent gathering capability is mediocre to say, what the fuck is the use of their unmanned aerial vehicles or other battlefield floating radar devices like their ELINT and surveilance aircraft system? Azeris got a better tactical maneuver compared to them as they are capable to bypassing heavily fortified Armenian position and push through the most weakest ones using armored formation. Though compared to the NATO countries standard they are still fallshort but Russian seems so amateur.

Ukraine has, by far, claimed to assassinate 3 Russian top generals, either by their snipers or drones targeting Russian command posts. I believe these achievements were the results from their combat intelligent gathering capability.

 

[Madokafc]

Ukraine has, by far, claimed to assassinate 3 Russian top generals, either by their snipers or drones targeting Russian command posts. I believe these achievements were the results from their combat intelligent gathering capability.

Ukraine got precious and precise Intel data from NATO countries

 

[keadno]

Even with APS, reactive armor and other advanced stuffs installed, I still don't like Russian T-series tanks for exactly this one reason: The insistence of the Russian tank designers to seat the T-series tank crews directly above the ammo and propellant. Anyone may argue regarding the benefits of autoloader and the carousel system, but the fact remains that separate ammo storage with blowout panels like in Western MBTs are still far better to at least giving their crews a chance of survival in case of a succesful hit by the enemy.

With how top-attack munitions works, the T-series tank ammo position means the penetrator has direct view of the ammo instead of hull floor.

Western MBT also has hull ammo stowage except M1 Abrahams, but since the position is outside of the affected area of top-attack ATGM/outside of the turret ring, it should has higher chance of surviving that nasty ATGM.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

except M1 Abrahams

Abrams Still have hull storage for ammo, around 6 to 8, behind commander seat, between combat and engine compartment. Type 90 store its ammo in turret.

it's doesn't matter where you put the ammo, as long as its save, protected, and not causing catastrophic damage upon detonated.

 

[Madokafc]

LAHAT => TAHAL => TAk HALal
don't buy it, we've known the secret behind it

Utak Atik gatuk Yo? Do you had better argumen for sake of the argument itself?

 

[FPXAllen]

LAHAT => TAHAL => TAk HALal
don't buy it, we've known the secret behind it

I know you're joking, but in case anyone take this seriously, well... Our Pandur II turrets are from Elbit Systems - to mention our most recent acquisition from there.

 

[FPXAllen]

With how top-attack munitions works, the T-series tank ammo position means the penetrator has direct view of the ammo instead of hull floor.

Western MBT also has hull ammo stowage except M1 Abrahams, but since the position is outside of the affected area of top-attack ATGM/outside of the turret ring, it should has higher chance of surviving that nasty ATGM.

To be frank, all tanks are vulnerable against top-attack munitions. But you don't even need such sophisticated method to destroy Russian T-series tanks. Even an anti-tank mine with EFP capability exploding under the hull will be enough to cause catastrophic explosions in those tanks.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

all tanks are vulnerable against top-attack munitions

View attachment 40947

@keadno , you need to know why this thing existed and its role still relevant till today. why such less than a kilo munition capable to take out tons of war machine. Yes, because hit at the weakest spot.

 

[keadno]

View attachment 40947

@keadno , you need to know why this thing existed and its role still relevant till today. why such less than a kilo munition capable to take out tons of war machine. Yes, because hit at the weakest spot.

Absolutely, but the fact that "cope cage" used by the russia isn't effective against top-attack makes me question the effectiveness of APS against this particular type of Anti-tank munition. Perhaps the APS fragmentation could destroy the copper liner which renders the jet less effective or doesn't form at all.

To be frank, all tanks are vulnerable against top-attack munitions. But you don't even need such sophisticated method to destroy Russian T-series tanks. Even an anti-tank mine with EFP capability exploding under the hull will be enough to cause catastrophic explosions in those tanks.

Yes, perhaps the decisive factor why the new T-14 has separate crew compartment.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

APS

what exactly tank with APS in Russian service nowadays that knocked by top attack ?

AFAIK, all destroyed tank have no such APS.