Indonesian funding issue re-emerges for KF-X

[Gary]

We should, as long as Korean bank can give us more soft loan to pay the project in the first place

we both know it's hard when the incumbent in power are all into infrastructure.

 

[Madokafc]

Its hard to believe Indonesia doesnt have the funds. They are an emerging economic powerhouse whose GDP is larger then Turkey. If we can finance our own fighter jet then they should definitly be able to co-finance and existing one that is fraction the cost of the overal cost. There is mostly likely problems with either production or technology sharing, and therefore they are dragging their foot on the ground. Corruption or back alley deals might also be a reason, though i would think the requirements of the Indonesian air force is simply shifitng.

Indonesia state budget is around 188 Billion US Dollar, money still big issue for us but not at scale we can't paid bill of mere hundred million US Dollar. There is lot of disagreement here, that's why Prabowo not going to South Korea at all for one year he is taking the office. Instead he is Made trip to Turkey and France Twice!!!

 

[Madokafc]

we both know it's hard when the incumbent in power are all into infrastructure.

Not at all, there is disagreement here and there with South Korea. We can't limit ourselves to just one project though

 

[Gary]

Not at all, there is disagreement here and there with South Korea. We can't limit ourselves to just one project though

well we have to see that in the coming months, we're already late on payments, not only we're late on payments we actually try to have more projects shares than previously agreed upon. if you look closely on the signals they give lately, they're not very happy with us right now.

 

[Madokafc]

well we have to see that in the coming months, we're already late on payments, not only we're late on payments we actually try to have more projects shares than previously agreed upon. if you look closely on the signals they give lately, they're not very happy with us right now.

Why we should care about their feeling? We should only care about our National interest. For the funding, Indonesia can ask for more soft loan from South Korea bank to financing our share. But we are not to do so for a while. The thing is there is several point need to be fixed that's why we are protest and even defer the payment

 

[Gary]

Why we should care about their feeling? We should only care about our National interest. For the funding, Indonesia can ask for more soft loan from South Korea bank to financing our share. But we are not to do so for a while. The thing is there is several point need to be fixed that's why we are protest and even defer the payment

umm I'm not talking about feeling, they could just kick us out of the whole program, they've got nothing to loose. They've shown that they're capable of moving ahead with or without our help. that's what I'm fearing the most now, tbh

 

[Madokafc]

umm I'm not talking about feeling, they could just kick us out of the whole program, they've got nothing to loose. They've shown that they're capable of moving ahead with or without our help. that's what I'm fearing the most now, tbh

It is more better if they kicking our ass in the first place, it will be a nice advertising for the project at International market. And sure they clever enough to keep us and enduring our bargaining talks. In the first place Indonesia is doomed to have little say in the program. Should not only involved our corrupt PT DI into the project, we should bring the likes of PT LEN and maybe other BUMN manufacturing.

 

[BordoEnes]

Indonesia state budget is around 188 Billion US Dollar, money still big issue for us but not at scale we can't paid bill of mere hundred million US Dollar. There is lot of disagreement here, that's why Prabowo not going to South Korea at all for one year he is taking the office. Instead he is Made trip to Turkey and France Twice!!!

I was always suspicious that this was the reason. The official reason is shortage of money but they have been purchasing and developing local weapons effortlessly for a while now so it makes sense the real reason is disagreements with Korea.

 

[Madokafc]

I was always suspicious that this was the reason. The official reason is shortage of money but they have been purchasing and developing local weapons effortlessly for a while now so it makes sense the real reason is disagreements with Korea.

There is Investment bout too, South Korea Samsung prefer Vietnam over Indonesia when there is effort to put offset of Submarine deal and KFX (in which the potential deal can reach over eight to ten Billion US Dollar once all the project finished as Indonesia intended to build over 12 Submarine from the same class and over 50 KFX/IFX along with joint research spending) with FDI in which can boost our export value and reduce our deficit trade with them at the time , they once had give us promise to put Indonesia as center of production for Samsung, but instead those goes to Vietnam. Although at the time (in 2012, Indonesia one of the largest Samsung market in Asia Pacific. To placate Indonesia they then invest on Petrochemical industry, but Indonesia import alot of Samsung devices. That's why Indonesia government goes to deal with China to reduce Samsung hegemon in Indonesia market. And there is other thing which made sour our relationship with them, in which i don't think it is proper to mention it

 

[Anmdt]

It is more better if they kicking our ass in the first place, it will be a nice advertising for the project at International market. And sure they clever enough to keep us and enduring our bargaining talks. In the first place Indonesia is doomed to have little say in the program. Should not only involved our corrupt PT DI into the project, we should bring the likes of PT LEN and maybe other BUMN manufacturing.

This is really not good for the prestige:
Indonesia didn't keep legal promises in the project, threatened South Korean by bringing project into stall by calling Indonesian engineers back, which they eventually did, asked for discounts, alternative payment plans, pay with goods.
Let me tell you this, there has been an agreement at the first, and Korea did everything according to that. They didn't promise to relocate Samsung operations in KF-X agreement, the offset ratio and offset technique was clearly set.

Check out the past projects with Korea, they were really generous with ToT and respectful to the agreement,despite of possibly loosing the market they have given full ToT on:
Makassar Class, Which eventually helped PT PAL to receive ToT from Damen on Sigma class, if it wasn't Korean reference for PT PAL, Damen wouldn't have done it.
Submarine ToT, nobody teaches building submarine from scratch, again Indonesia uses Korean reference as a leverage to find new partners, or to include ToT and local production for the submarines.

We should also add, these ToTs are what Indonesia paid for, they didn't give it away for free.
i know some people complains South Korea doesn't provide all ToT at once but gives little by little throughout the project timeline, technical explanation will take much longer text. ToT is not magic, it doesn't come out of a hat.

Some Indonesian officials in defense procurement have serious problems and problematic mindset, i say this by experience for the time i have been in Indonesia and worked with them, they need to be replaced with rational, young people to not further damage Indonesia's prestige in international area.

 

[Madokafc]

This is really not good for the prestige:
Indonesia didn't keep legal promises in the project, threatened South Korean by bringing project into stall by calling Indonesian engineers back, which they eventually did, asked for discounts, alternative payment plans, pay with goods.
Let me tell you this, there has been an agreement at the first, and Korea did everything according to that. They didn't promise to relocate Samsung operations in KF-X agreement, the offset ratio and offset technique was clearly set.

Check out the past projects with Korea, they were really generous with ToT and respectful to the agreement,despite of possibly loosing the market they have given full ToT on:
Makassar Class, Which eventually helped PT PAL to receive ToT from Damen on Sigma class, if it wasn't Korean reference for PT PAL, Damen wouldn't have done it.
Submarine ToT, nobody teaches building submarine from scratch, again Indonesia uses Korean reference as a leverage to find new partners, or to include ToT and local production for the submarines.

We should also add, these ToTs are what Indonesia paid for, they didn't give it away for free.
i know some people complains South Korea doesn't provide all ToT at once but gives little by little throughout the project timeline, technical explanation will take much longer text. ToT is not magic, it doesn't come out of a hat.

Some Indonesian officials in defense procurement have serious problems and problematic mindset, i say this by experience for the time i have been in Indonesia and worked with them, they need to be replaced with rational, young people to not further damage Indonesia's prestige in international area.

Don't know how to put it, but there is indeed problem i can't mention here though.

 

[Anmdt]

Don't know how to put it, but there is indeed problem i can't mention here though.

There are things i can't mention and i wouldn't mention as well (secrecy, restrictions), but this was briefly what it is which can be collected from what available to the public.

 

[Indos]

Indonesia is also going to buy some SU35s along with some eurofighters. Could this perhaps made them delay their payments???

Is indos in this forum. I would love to hear from him.

Hi bro....

Renegotiation is still going on and what I can say is that both Korean and Indonesian look like still want to be together in developing the fighter. If there is no strong commitment to continue the cooperation, I would say we have already broken up by now. The start of renegotiation was in July 2018, it has been more than 2 years.

The latest renegotiation meeting was in September and we are still waiting what will be the final outcome, whether both parties can strike a deal or not......

 

[Gary]

For a minute or two I thought I'm opening PDF lmao,@Indos nice having u here.

 

[Indos]

For a minute or two I thought I'm opening PDF lmao,@Indos nice having u here.

Thank you bro, I dont want to lose silaturahmi with my Turkish friend either hence I join this forum. You also have done great job in this forum as well.

 

[Ryder]

Hi bro....

Renegotiation is still going on and what I can say is that both Korean and Indonesian look like still want to be together in developing the fighter. If there is no strong commitment to continue the cooperation, I would say we have already broken up by now. The start of renegotiation was in July 2018, it has been more than 2 years.

The latest renegotiation meeting was in September and we are still waiting what will be the final outcome, whether both parties can strike a deal or not......

Welcome to the forum Indos. Thanks for the post Im learning more about this program hopefully its successful especially for Indonesia it will do wonders for your defence industry.

 

[Nilgiri]

Hi bro....

Renegotiation is still going on and what I can say is that both Korean and Indonesian look like still want to be together in developing the fighter. If there is no strong commitment to continue the cooperation, I would say we have already broken up by now. The start of renegotiation was in July 2018, it has been more than 2 years.

The latest renegotiation meeting was in September and we are still waiting what will be the final outcome, whether both parties can strike a deal or not......

Welcome, welcome, welcome

 

[Indos]

Welcome, welcome, welcome

Thanks bro.....Many Bangladeshi miss you in PDF, they sometime talk about you he he

 

[Indos]

Welcome to the forum Indos. Thanks for the post Im learning more about this program hopefully its successful especially for Indonesia it will do wonders for your defence industry.

Thanks bro, yup it should become our learning process in fighter jet development. I have intense debate with Korean member in PDF in KFX/IFX thread, many information have been put there, including about Indonesian engineers contribution on the program. You may want to look it up.

Yup, I hope both of our program are successful. I believe in the future Indonesia and Turkey will have more cooperation, including in aerospace. I believe if somehow fighter jet is still needed in future warfare, Indonesia and Turkey will likely to develop 6 generation fighter together. What we are learning now is beneficial for our possible future program, inshaAllah.

 

[Oublious]

KFX don't have internal weaponbay? And is using Sniper pod? Indonesia is really going wrong!