TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Radonsider]

Well depends on how good of an job is done on the fuselage and how good the RAM coating will be as well as the thermal management of the engine (TF-6000).

But even with mediocre results it should vastly outdo the Rafale on RCS. I think in the end it will easily rival the F-35.

Hope they slap Luneberg reflectors on them just to fuck with the Americans.

Engine thermals is not really about the engine, it is mostly about the airframe. And the engine is deep buried to the center in this aircraft, so i dont think that it will have problems

 

[Radonsider]

The RCS value of MIUS to be measured will be smaller than Rafale, even with current body shape, internal weapon load capability and composite material used extensively in the hull. It is certain that even more effective results will be obtained when the RAM paint developed (I think Turkish paint will be far better than Have Glass V. Aselsan is working on those paints since decades) is also applied for MIUS.

The RCS value of the F16 has been reduced from 5m2 to 1.2m2 with Have Glass-V paint.

The targeted RCS value for TfX is between 0.1m2 and 0.003m2, depending on the angle of the aircraft. I expect a similar RCS value for MIUS.

The RCS value specified for KFX is 0.5m2 in open sources. The Su-57 is claimed to be in the 0.5-0.1m2 range. The RCS value of F35 stated in open sources is 0.005m2 and F22 is 0.0001m2.

I would like to say that some statements from USAF satet that F-35 is stealthier than the F-22, i expect F-22 and TF-X to have similar values and F-35 to have a bit better because it is bit smaller.

 

[Era_shield]

I would like to say that some statements from USAF satet that F-35 is stealthier than the F-22, i expect F-22 and TF-X to have similar values and F-35 to have a bit better because it is bit smaller.

The chances that the F-35 is stealthier than the F-22 is exactly 0%. There's a reason why the F-22 is still not allowed to be exported to anyone even though its design is older than the F-35.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I would like to say that some statements from USAF satet that F-35 is stealthier than the F-22, i expect F-22 and TF-X to have similar values and F-35 to have a bit better because it is bit smaller.

The technology that makes F22 super secret and superior to the F35 is stealthiness. Even though F35 is superior in terms of avionics, fusion center and situational awareness, superior stealth tech underlies the fact that US still doesnt want to sell the F22 to any country.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Monster is coming

View attachment 45077

Wow!! When did they produce this?
That is lightning speed!
Come on TEI! Get that TF6000 engine ready at the same speed!

 

[Oublious]

Kizilelma should compared with F22 and not F35, Rafale is outmatched. I mean look to the shape of the drone and look to a F22. Only thing we can not talk is IR signature.

 

[Agha Sher]

Kizilelma should compared with F22 and not F35, Rafale is outmatched. I mean look to the shape of the drone and look to a F22. Only thing we can not talk is IR signature.

View attachment 45099

View attachment 45098

I.e. even a sub-sonic MIUS will be a nightmare for the Hellenic air force?

 

[Zafer]

AFAIK canards are a disadvantage for stealth.

 

[Siper>MMU]

I hope they find an alternative engine for it. Since Motor Sich plant is completely destroyed we aren't going to get our engines even if the war ends. And there isn't such information or announcement about producing the engines here. TF6000 isn't going to make it in time either since it's in early prototype phase. They started production with alternative engine for Akıncı (PT6) very quickly. (Since we aren't going to get AI450s anymore I think the serial production will continue with PT6 engines. Maybe a couple with PD220 but I highly doubt it since even the AI450 wasn't enough for high altitude use.)

 

[Heartbang]

AFAIK winglets are disadvantage for stealth.

canards have to digitally adjusted constantly to manage their effects on RCS. Rafale, Eurofighter and J20 all employ such adjustment systems.

 

[Radonsider]

AFAIK winglets are disadvantage for stealth.

Not really, non parallel canards to the ground does not effect stealth in a bad way. Yeah, they do increase the area but by tilting it upwards (Fe: J-20), you make the canards stealthy.

Common examples: J-10, EF, Rafale, J-20

 

[Yasar_TR]

I.e. even a sub-sonic MIUS will be a nightmare for the Hellenic air force?

For a stealth fighter, the main advantage you get with supersonic speed is to get to your battlefield and leave your position quicker apart from dodging missiles. But if you are going to loiter for 6+ hours on air, subsonic is all you need. It would decrease your Infra Red signature, especially at higher altitudes too.

 

[Radonsider]

I hope they find an alternative engine for it. Since Motor Sich plant is completely destroyed we aren't going to get our engines even if the war ends. And there isn't such information or announcement about producing the engines here. TF6000 isn't going to make it in time either since it's in early prototype phase. They started production with alternative engine for Akıncı (PT6) very quickly. (Since we aren't going to get AI450s anymore I think the serial production will continue with PT6 engines. Maybe a couple with PD220 but I highly doubt it since even the AI450 wasn't enough for high altitude use.)

Well, the supersonic one will use the TF-6000, we have enough (they said that it was a lot, and probably they have the license to produce them). Not a problem for now

 

[Radonsider]

I.e. even a sub-sonic MIUS will be a nightmare for the Hellenic air force?

Yes, because you don't really need to be supersonic, you use supersonic for dodging long range missiles now, and MİUS doesn't really need it as it can probably do 25g's. Also, subsonic is better for loitering time, there is a reason why F-35 did not have the criteria of supercruise

 

[Combat-Master]

Wouldn't be surprised if at some point Kizilelma receives super cruise capability with the 6,000lbf (dry) turbofan engines.

 

[Siper>MMU]

6000lbf wouldn't be enough for supercruise. Maybe with 10000lbf dry

 

[Combat-Master]

6000lbf wouldn't be enough for supercruise. Maybe with 10000lbf dry

If Kizilelma can reach high-subsonic speeds with 3,500lbf engine, what makes you think an increase of +180% is necessary for super cruise ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Super cruise can be achieved if the thrust to weight ratio is right and the plane is flying at rarified atmospheric altitudes and most importantly if the airframe is suitable. It has nothing to do with being 6000lbf or 10000lbf thrust level.
This is a 6000kg plane. Gripen with 14000kg take off weight and 12000lbf thrust achieves 2mach speed.

 

[Radonsider]

Wouldn't be surprised if at some point Kizilelma receives super cruise capability with the 6,000lbf (dry) turbofan engines.

Edit: Al-322f is for the Supersonic variant, not the high-subsonic.

Also, the high-subsonic one will use Al-25TLT, Licensed by TEI, so no problem of engine stock.

So, it could be possible that with TF-6000, it can supercruise, I am no aerodynamics expert so don't really know about the airframe supporting supercruise

 

[Brokengineer]

If Kizilelma can reach high-subsonic speeds with 3,500lbf engine, what makes you think an increase of +180% is necessary for super cruise ?

Although i cannot directly say like Bora's statement that 10.000lbf is necessary , muis with ai25 is specificed at mach 0.6 which is not quite high subsonic. Mius with ai222 is expected to reach supersonic speeds but no mention of supercruise.
I am just thinking loudly that a muis with an single safran m88-2 engine could deliver supercruise kind of wonders.