Navy Romania’s €1.2B Corvette Deal to Go to Naval Group

[Test7]

Naval Group's Gowind corvette

Romania appears poised to sign a deal for four corvettes with French company Naval Group pegged at €1.2 billion, despite being challenged by Dutch shipbuilder Damen.
"There is a dispute, in fact not one, there have been several lawsuits that have been initiated by a competitor against the contract award decision taken by the tender commission. As soon as these litigations are over in court, from our point of view, we are ready to sign the contract. For us, it is essential to sign and fulfill this contract. The construction of the four corvettes is critical in Romania's strategic device at the Black Sea," Romanian Prime Minister Ludovic Orban was quoted as saying by Mediafax on October 26.

Naval Group (France) ousted Ficantieri (Italy) and Damen (Netherlands) who were also vouching for the contract in winning the mega-deal, initially estimated at €1.6 billion.
The selection of the French company caps a drama-filled competition process in Romania. In July last year, Romtehnica, the state company that organized the tender to buy four multirole corvettes for the Navy, notified the association between the French Naval Group and Constanţa Naval Shipyard that it has won the tender.

In October 2019, the Bucharest Court rejected an appeal filed by the Damen, after the Defense Ministry awarded the contract to the association between Naval Group and Constanta Shipyard.

According to information circulated by media and partly confirmed by defense minister Gabriel Leş, Naval Group submitted a bid of €1.2 billion, the other offers being higher: €1.25 billion (Damen) and €1.34 billion (Fincantieri), Romania Insider had reported last year.
The contract includes construction of four Gowind corvettes and modernizing the country’s two T-22 frigates and construction of a maintenance and training center.

Romania’s €1.2B Corvette Deal to Go to Naval Group

Romania appears poised to sign a deal for four corvettes with French company Naval Group pegged at €1.2 billion, despite being challenged by Dutch shipbuilder Damen. “There is a dispute, in fact not one, there have been several lawsuits that have been initiated by a competitor against the...

www.defenseworld.net

 

[Costin84]

We should do gov to gov deals and not these ridiculous bidding competitions which unnecessarily drag the final acquisitions in long court decisions

 

[Saithan]

We should do gov to gov deals and not these ridiculous bidding competitions which unnecessarily drag the final acquisitions in long court decisions

Transparency ? Accountability ?

All that disappears when governments get involved. IMO, and while the alternate is annoying I have to point out that it's in the publics interest.

By all means keep secret projects secret and such, but there aren't anything top secret about these big vessels except the equipment, and they're not disclosed in either case.

 

[Costin84]

Transparency ? Accountability ?

All that disappears when governments get involved. IMO, and while the alternate is annoying I have to point out that it's in the publics interest.

By all means keep secret projects secret and such, but there aren't anything top secret about these big vessels except the equipment, and they're not disclosed in either case.

In this case, the tender was flawed from the beginning as the winner was decided by price criteria which, imo, is ridiculous when it comes to high tech military hardware....I'm curious to see how Naval Group can deliver 4 corvettes and upgrade the 2 frigates within a 1.2 billion package
Himars, Patriot, Piranha5 acquisitions were done through gov to gov deals and they're successful programs....well the Piranha5 is facing delays due to the Romanian side being unprepared for inhouse development

 

[Saithan]

In this case, the tender was flawed from the beginning as the winner was decided by price criteria which, imo, is ridiculous when it comes to high tech military hardware....I'm curious to see how Naval Group can deliver 4 corvettes and upgrade the 2 frigates within a 1.2 billion package
Himars, Patriot, Piranha5 acquisitions were done through gov to gov deals and they're successful programs....well the Piranha5 is facing delays due to the Romanian side being unprepared for inhouse development

Definitely, but even in Denmark public tenders almost always goes for lowest price. But that is usually not the only factor. You normally have several criteria's and divide them into weights.

- Price
- Building time
- Implementation (could be the equipment etc.)
- Trials, testing etc.
- and other stuff.

Just like with housing projects you already figure out what you want and what systems you want. So the bidders already know what they have to deliver.

But unlike housing projects changes during building process on naval vessels is very unlikely. If I recall correct any changes to the hull would pretty much require the project to be drawn up from scratch. @ANMDT can correct me if I remember wrongly.

 

[Costin84]

Definitely, but even in Denmark public tenders almost always goes for lowest price. But that is usually not the only factor. You normally have several criteria's and divide them into weights.

- Price
- Building time
- Implementation (could be the equipment etc.)
- Trials, testing etc.
- and other stuff.

Just like with housing projects you already figure out what you want and what systems you want. So the bidders already know what they have to deliver.

But unlike housing projects changes during building process on naval vessels is very unlikely. If I recall correct any changes to the hull would pretty much require the project to be drawn up from scratch. @ANMDT can correct me if I remember wrongly.

In Romanian case it was a simple choice...you have one established builder who allready has a successful naval shipyard in the country, Damen....who allready came with the best ship....Sigma 1054 with 8 mk41 vls (that's 32 50km essm) plus 1x RAM who allready builds these ships in Ro, so no risks of delays....why select another competitor ?...which comes with the 20 km ranged Mica (good luck with that facing the Russians in the Black Sea, range matters!) ..Naval Group associated itself with a local Romanian shipyard who hasn't build a military ship in over 30 years so,I'm foreseeing delays even after the contract is signed due to the local partners being slow in absorbing the construction tech...

 

[Saithan]

In Romanian case it was a simple choice...you have one established builder who allready has a successful naval shipyard in the country, Damen....who allready came with the best ship....Sigma 1054 with 8 mk41 vls (that's 32 50km essm) plus 1x RAM who allready builds these ships in Ro, so no risks of delays....why select another competitor ?...which comes with the 20 km ranged Mica (good luck with that facing the Russians in the Black Sea, range matters!) ..Naval Group associated itself with a local Romanian shipyard who hasn't build a military ship in over 30 years so,I'm foreseeing delays even after the contract is signed due to the local partners being slow in absorbing the construction tech...

If Damen is Romanian, then it would have been better to go with Damen. Only reason I can think of picking French is probably because of some off the table benefits. Especially considering the Italians aren't shabby at ships. I mean US is going for he FREMM after all.

Plus you'd keep the cashflow inside your own country, mostly.

 

[Costin84]

If Damen is Romanian, then it would have been better to go with Damen. Only reason I can think of picking French is probably because of some off the table benefits. Especially considering the Italians aren't shabby at ships. I mean US is going for he FREMM after all.

Plus you'd keep the cashflow inside your own country, mostly.

Damen and Fincantieri have local shipyards in Romania, Fincantieri has 2! Naval Group is in a association with one whose owner bankrupted and destroyed my local football club, Hagi s first club, a shoddy character....I'm not impressed

 

[Saithan]

Damen and Fincantieri have local shipyards in Romania, Fincantieri has 2! Naval Group is in a association with one whose owner bankrupted and destroyed my local football club, Hagi s first club, a shoddy character....I'm not impressed

Wtf anyone that messes with the Magicians's club is a no go!

Boycott France!

 

[Anmdt]

In Romanian case it was a simple choice...you have one established builder who allready has a successful naval shipyard in the country, Damen....who allready came with the best ship....Sigma 1054 with 8 mk41 vls (that's 32 50km essm) plus 1x RAM who allready builds these ships in Ro, so no risks of delays....why select another competitor ?...which comes with the 20 km ranged Mica (good luck with that facing the Russians in the Black Sea, range matters!) ..Naval Group associated itself with a local Romanian shipyard who hasn't build a military ship in over 30 years so,I'm foreseeing delays even after the contract is signed due to the local partners being slow in absorbing the construction tech...

Different countries has different requirements on tenders, so if Romania hasn't particularly named subsystems, and directly has gone for the lowest price with a defined role-and mission definition, that is pretty much ineffective.

Definitely, but even in Denmark public tenders almost always goes for lowest price. But that is usually not the only factor. You normally have several criteria's and divide them into weights.

- Price
- Building time
- Implementation (could be the equipment etc.)
- Trials, testing etc.
- and other stuff.

Just like with housing projects you already figure out what you want and what systems you want. So the bidders already know what they have to deliver.

But unlike housing projects changes during building process on naval vessels is very unlikely. If I recall correct any changes to the hull would pretty much require the project to be drawn up from scratch. @ANMDT can correct me if I remember wrongly.

Some of these are priority, at some tenders you particularly name subsystems to be installed ie:
- RAM or Point defense missiles and CIWS
- 8 SSM of minimum this range, or this particular product
- 2 RWS capable of this and that
- Sensors will be these, a list provided, and main radar will capable of at least this
These are given in RfP as minimum or "must be" , besides this minimum complement, endurance, range, minimum speed, a particular cruise (floatilla speed) is given to meet criterias.
In some tenders like US does, you set criterias on given systems to be integrated for model, or ask for free space at particular places, sometimes limiting dynamics at places to keep operational at particular sea states.

After that in tenders it is a little bit of (depends on the country) lobbying, offset agreement, local contribution (in terms of personnel supply) . Lobbying comes effective in price matter because some companies do good lobbying, gives the lowest price but actually leaves some purchases to be done by the buyer (sometimes munitions, missiles etc, or sometimes personnel cost and costs at sea trials are provided by buyer, accommodation of visiting personnel etc, this sounds a little, but it sums into considerable amounts)

 

[Gary]

We should do gov to gov deals and not these ridiculous bidding competitions which unnecessarily drag the final acquisitions in long court decisions

surprise surprise, its not Damen which owns a shipyard in Galati,Romania.

 

[Gary]

In Romanian case it was a simple choice...you have one established builder who allready has a successful naval shipyard in the country, Damen....who allready came with the best ship....Sigma 1054 with 8 mk41 vls (that's 32 50km essm) plus 1x RAM who allready builds these ships in Ro, so no risks of delays....why select another competitor ?...which comes with the 20 km ranged Mica (good luck with that facing the Russians in the Black Sea, range matters!) ..Naval Group associated itself with a local Romanian shipyard who hasn't build a military ship in over 30 years so,I'm foreseeing delays even after the contract is signed due to the local partners being slow in absorbing the construction tech...

I'm quite shocked why Romania didnt choose the 10514 tho, especially because Damen has a shipyard in Romania, iirc in Galati.

 

[Costin84]

This is the moment when you cancel the contract and award, through aGov to Gov deal,the tender to another company whose ships don't train with the Russians so that their secrets will be known.Granted, the Egyptian Gowinds might have their sensors downgraded as opposed to the variant we're getting but the risk is there...

 

[Saithan]

This is the moment when you cancel the contract and award, through aGov to Gov deal,the tender to another company whose ships don't train with the Russians so that their secrets will be known.Granted, the Egyptian Gowinds might have their sensors downgraded as opposed to the variant we're getting but the risk is there...

Well I hope it’ll be a domestic shipyard regardless of the choice.

 

[Vergennes]

In Romanian case it was a simple choice...you have one established builder who allready has a successful naval shipyard in the country, Damen....who allready came with the best ship....Sigma 1054 with 8 mk41 vls (that's 32 50km essm) plus 1x RAM who allready builds these ships in Ro, so no risks of delays....why select another competitor ?...which comes with the 20 km ranged Mica (good luck with that facing the Russians in the Black Sea, range matters!) ..Naval Group associated itself with a local Romanian shipyard who hasn't build a military ship in over 30 years so,I'm foreseeing delays even after the contract is signed due to the local partners being slow in absorbing the construction tech...

The UAE ordered two Gowind (+2 more in option) with the same exact configuration you have mentioned.

2x4 VLS for ESSM missiles + 1x RAM launcher,nothing could have prevented the Romanians to ask for the same configuration.