Ukraine Why Ukraine believes Tanks can turn the tide

[Saithan]

Why Ukraine believes tanks can turn the tide of war

Ukraine wants hundreds of armored vehicles for a major counteroffensive against Russia.

www.politico.eu

LONDON — In the early years of the 21st century, military planners were pondering the unthinkable — were tanks becoming obsolete?

Unmanned drones, cyber warfare and other emerging technologies were seen as the weapons of the future. As recently as 2020, some defense chiefs thought Britain should mothball its tanks altogether.

But as 2023 dawns, and with Ukraine mulling a crucial spring offensive against Russia that could prove decisive in its struggle for survival, Kyiv is preparing to turn once more to the traditional land army equipment of 20th century warfare.

 

[Madokafc]

MBT, APC and IFV is mainstay of any army offensive, gaining ground and staying power, important to absorb the enemies firepower damage. Without armor, your infantry, no matter how well equipped it is, would be very vulnerable against the incoming artillery and rocket fire. If the current question is about the crew survivability? then why not to opt for unmanned ground vehicles, but large enough to have armor and carry sufficient firepower in which i am believed along with the unmanned UAV, the UGV would be the next thing in the future.

 

[Gary]

I think it's very clear why Ukraine wants Western tanks.

Western optics has always been ahead by a generation from its Soviet/Russian counterpart.

Even the latest T-72B3 and BMD-4M uses Thales Catherine fire control sight.

While the Russian will find it easy to kill any Ukraine MBT in service with the Mango rounds, Russia will need something like the Svinets or Vacuum to defeat the latest model Chally, Abrams or Leopards. See thread below

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1615087194871398418

Situational awareness is also a lot better, most if not all 3rd gen Western MBT has independent commander sight and able to do hunter killer role. Seeing how Ukrainian T-64 getting blown into smithereens in close range by Russian T-72s point to an already well known conclusion : legacy T-series tank has bad situational awareness and crew comfort as well.

Firepower will be significantly enhanced if Ukraine get access to Western 120mm gun and its associated rounds. No longer UA will be confined with Mango rounds, There's a plenty of DM33/43/53, M829s, F1 and advanced airburst munitions like the AMP.

 

[blackjack]

MBTs, APCs and IFVs do indeed protect personnel but tanks need more assets to protect them which is not seen in the weapon's package. Russian helicopters have 100km-250km radars 10-12km Vikhr missiles or 30km Hermes missiles designed to destroy tanks and armored vehicles. You can attempt to shoot it with MANPADS but if there are a bunch of soldiers in certain locations more than likely the helicopter will contact artillery support to give locations even though drones can do this as well, after Bakhmut it will be an open field giving exposure to armoured vehicles to get hunted. Patriots is included but no idea if it will be near the frontlines, outside the city or inside the city in which buildings will obstruct the radar view or not. Lancets have like 40km ranges based on size they are small on radar and plastic is harder to detect than object made of metal also can fly low below radar horizon, I think it would be a great Idea to give Ukraine like a Pantsir system that can move and shoot, and have SAMs with 20km-40km ranges or the Buk-M3s with a 70km range but NATO has no such things to give to Ukraine from getting their tanks blown up. But if they did have them than Russians will have to rely on SEAD operations, but they have no need for that because it's all drones and artillery like the armenian-azeri border conflict.

Also Russian T-90M and T-14 production is on the rise which makes it seem based on optics, armour and penetration specs can deal with latest western MBTs but its rather pointless if the tanks they have will be hunted down by helicopters, drones and artillery. So, is there something more than just tanks from this package? EDIT: Forgot to add that the radar and drone on the Armata already gives it capabilities that see targets beyond FLIR.

 

[Madokafc]

MBTs, APCs and IFVs do indeed protect personnel but tanks need more assets to protect them which is not seen in the weapon's package. Russian helicopters have 100km-250km radars 10-12km Vikhr missiles or 30km Hermes missiles designed to destroy tanks and armored vehicles. You can attempt to shoot it with MANPADS but if there are a bunch of soldiers in certain locations more than likely the helicopter will contact artillery support to give locations even though drones can do this as well, after Bakhmut it will be an open field giving exposure to armoured vehicles to get hunted. Patriots is included but no idea if it will be near the frontlines, outside the city or inside the city in which buildings will obstruct the radar view or not. Lancets have like 40km ranges based on size they are small on radar and plastic is harder to detect than object made of metal also can fly low below radar horizon, I think it would be a great Idea to give Ukraine like a Pantsir system that can move and shoot, and have SAMs with 20km-40km ranges or the Buk-M3s with a 70km range but NATO has no such things to give to Ukraine from getting their tanks blown up. But if they did have them than Russians will have to rely on SEAD operations, but they have no need for that because it's all drones and artillery like the armenian-azeri border conflict.

Also Russian T-90M and T-14 production is on the rise which makes it seem based on optics, armour and penetration specs can deal with latest western MBTs but its rather pointless if the tanks they have will be hunted down by helicopters, drones and artillery.

no need to worry, Russian already donated some Pantsir, Buk M and tonnes of latest Russian MBT to Ukraine

 

[blackjack]

no need to worry, Russian already donated some Pantsir, Buk M and tonnes of latest Russian MBT to Ukraine

NATO and Ukraine donated even more that south Americans are being bothered by the west. Even AFU is going around asking their civilians every day to donate themselves

 

[bisbis]

How many times do you think there are conflicts between tank to tank that in a battle?

Resistance to anti-tank, mines and artillery fires is important, not inter-tank features.

Whether you put M1 or Leopard on this front, if there is no active defense system and reactive armor on tanks, all kinds of conclusion will be bad.