Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[satria]

Which dock was used by PAL for KRI REM back then?

i believe SSV and KRI REM used built in Dock Semarang, the bigest dry dock

 

[satria]

TNI AL Purchases 2 Domestic Production Tugboats, Will Strengthen Koarmada I and III

The Indonesian Navy (AL) bought two tugboats or tugboats from the domestic industry, PT Noahtu Shipyard.

One ship was inaugurated by the Logistics Assistant (Aslog) KSAL Rear Admiral TNI Agus Santoso, at Tanjung Priok, North Jakarta, Tuesday (7/3/2023).

Then one more ship will be launched on March 20.

The two Harbor Tugboats will later be placed at Fleet Command (Koarmada) I and Koarmada III.

TNI AL Beli 2 Kapal Tunda Produksi Dalam Negeri, Akan Perkuat Koarmada I dan III

TNI Angkatan Laut (AL) membeli dua tugboat atau kapal tunda dari industri dalam negeri, PT Noahtu Shipyard.

nasional.kompas.com

 

[deadlast]

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/03/havelsan-advent-cms-and-sancar-ausv/
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OPV90 from PT. DRU/Noahtu Shipyard (using Diponegoro-class as placeholder illustration,lol) and KCR60 Water Jet from PT. Tesco Indomaritim (using Sampari-class as placeholder illustration).

Curiously, PT. PAL's AH-140 "Frigate" is notably missing in this portfolio, even when the CMS deal for OPV, KCR and the "Frigate" were signed in the same expo. PT. PAL's Frigate HAVELSAN CMS deal.

 

[Lordimperator]

Curiously, PT. PAL's AH-140 "Frigate" is notably missing in this portfolio, even when the CMS deal for OPV, KCR and the "Frigate" were signed in the same expo. PT. PAL's Frigate HAVELSAN CMS deal.

Cancelled? Or still classified, the xutting steel Merah Putih frigate itself lack of publication from media.

 

[deadlast]

Cancelled? Or still classified, the xutting steel Merah Putih frigate itself lack of publication from media.

Rather than classified, it's more like they try to make it hush-hush due to the previous public flak, it is one thing to try to make it classified from the start (like Tesco's kcr60) and hyping it too much and failed to deliver (Lundin's trimaran & AH-140 'steel cut') then posing it as 'classified' matters after the fact as a form of damage control, is another thing altogether.

It's Indonesia after all, based on the past experiences, if there's no firm confidentiality contract & enforcement stated from the start, they will boast, bragg, and hype it to the moon and over every chance they have. The fact that they did do all that and went silent after all their earlier publicity stunt and statements in reference to the program is quite telling.

 

[NEKO]

Quite concerning, we don't want it to be a failed project.

PAL kena mental karena komenan netizen, makanya kalean kalean jangan terlalu tajam kritikannya, PAL ntar ngambek. Wkwkwk
Steel cutting aja sampe sembunyi-sembunyi, sebelumnya gembar gembor industry 4.0 terus.

 

[Madokafc]

Quite concerning, we don't want it to be a failed project.

PAL kena mental karena komenan netizen, makanya kalean kalean jangan terlalu tajam kritikannya, PAL ntar ngambek. Wkwkwk
Steel cutting aja sampe sembunyi-sembunyi, sebelumnya gembar gembor industry 4.0 terus.

Indos would be sad he is quite confident with the integrity, innovation, punctual, discipline and spirit of Indonesian SoE afterall

 

[Lordimperator]

Quite concerning, we don't want it to be a failed project.

PAL kena mental karena komenan netizen, makanya kalean kalean jangan terlalu tajam kritikannya, PAL ntar ngambek. Wkwkwk
Steel cutting aja sampe sembunyi-sembunyi, sebelumnya gembar gembor industry 4.0 terus.

so do with their boasted UUV...
AI this AI that, even US, France, Chinese made their prototype 1st, and research decades ago,
iam affraid their Karya Anak Bangsa UUV programis their attempt to milking this period procurement.

 

[RadenSudirman]

It's good to bash incompetent people and their supporters yes. After all it makes us feel good

But what can we get from this? what is the conclusion? What should we expect in the future?

 

[Madokafc]

It's good to bash incompetent people and their supporters yes. After all it makes us feel good

But what can we get from this? what is the conclusion? What should we expect in the future?

what we would expect?

there is more likely major delay in the program, PT PAL would must paid excorbitant penalty fee, in which result in their request for more funding to save their assets and once again National Budget must be released to save their asses for a while their Management would take a low key profile to strive to finished their projects and after finished the projects they would back to boosting and bragging mode once more

 

[deadlast]

But what can we get from this? what is the conclusion? What should we expect in the future?

Not much, not when keeping ones image is deemed more important than quelling doubt and disinformation that spread due to them refusing to acknowledge the actual problem in the first place.

It's been the recurring theme of our industries, all the usual bragging/chest thumping at the start of program then immediate silence with refusal to elaborate when hit by some snag unless it get wide media attention, ex: DKB LSTs super late deliveries, KRI Banda Aceh/KCR60/405 late deliveries, Nagapasa-class problems, early batch kcr60 problems, Pindad Komodo Sherpa/Anoa 3 karya anak bangsa debacle, Philippines NC212 late delivery, etc. It's not like I expect them to be perfect at anything, all I want is them to admit their own mistake/deficiencies or at the very least explain the difficulties that they face instead of keeping tight lips over what happened or even to straight up lies and pretend that everything is alright.

 

[RadenSudirman]

what we would expect?

there is more likely major delay in the program, PT PAL would must paid excorbitant penalty fee, in which result in their request for more funding to save their assets and once again National Budget must be released to save their asses for a while their Management would take a low key profile to strive to finished their projects and after finished the projects they would back to boosting and bragging mode once more

It is expected for big asset like Warship to be delayed. As to be honest, the time limit set for AH 140 Frigate was unrealistic, and I was skeptical from the start whether that they can meet the deadline

Not much, not when keeping ones image is deemed more important than quelling doubt and disinformation that spread due to them refusing to acknowledge the actual problem in the first place.

Maybe it's Indonesian management culture, which also includes the defense-military establishment

During operation in Timor Timur, ABRI commanders set a rigid timetable for units in the field to finish an operation, regardless of the circumstances. Such a system makes the operation carried out in a males way, with less than optimal effort, because the command was without clear goal and unrealistic deadline, hence the result is suboptimal, way out of being ideal.

Our defense industry is probably like that too. "Make X and finish in Y", without considering the many dynamics that complicate things during the execution, and makes adjusting to circumstances difficult. That is why "command and control" is important, command alone without control is like shooting blind. I hope we can learn how to both plan well, and revise well, because currently we are not that good in either

 

[Madokafc]

It is expected for big asset like Warship to be delayed. As to be honest, the time limit set for AH 140 Frigate was unrealistic, and I was skeptical from the start whether that they can meet the deadline

Maybe it's Indonesian management culture, which also includes the defense-military establishment

During operation in Timor Timur, ABRI commanders set a rigid timetable for units in the field to finish an operation, regardless of the circumstances. Such a system makes the operation carried out in a males way, with less than optimal effort, because the command was without clear goal and unrealistic deadline, hence the result is suboptimal, way out of being ideal.

Our defense industry is probably like that too. "Make X and finish in Y", without considering the many dynamics that complicate things during the execution, and makes adjusting to circumstances difficult. That is why "command and control" is important, command alone without control is like shooting blind. I hope we can learn how to both plan well, and revise well, because currently we are not that good in either

69 or so month to build a license warship according to the provided blue print design should be enough. If they are feeling they can't handle more difficult jobs, they should acknowledge the problem in the first place and hiring foreign firms and expert to help them Instead doing bravado stunt like 4,0 generation meme they like to boasting about. If they still don't get full design from OEM partner they should say so and pressure the MoD to resolved the problem. It was the MoD who pressure them to accept foreign help and still there is some stubborness here and there.

 

[NEKO]

Anoa 3

I thought it gonna be:

But sim salabim it become:

I guess PINDAD need better human resources so they can come up with better design and also build it.

 

[Lordimperator]

I thought it gonna be:

But sim salabim it become:

I guess PINDAD need better human resources so they can come up with better design and also build it.

1st ones is designed by pindad or rebranded?

 

[Madokafc]

I thought it gonna be:

But sim salabim it become:

I guess PINDAD need better human resources so they can come up with better design and also build it.

Personally i don't care if it was foreign design or local design, either it was Armored vehicles, warship, helicopters or even Jet fighter. What i am much concerned about is, how much local content we had for every defense item we build, from the engines, powertrain, drivetrain, socket, bracket, gun turret, barrel of the gun, computer, processor, propeller Blades and even the tiniest thing like bolts and screw.

 

[NEKO]

1st ones is designed by pindad or rebranded?

Pindad I think.

 

[Aghost132483]

1st ones is designed by pindad or rebranded?

Designed by Pindad collaboration with Telkom University

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634363642174136320

 

[Anmdt]

Rather than classified, it's more like they try to make it hush-hush due to the previous public flak, it is one thing to try to make it classified from the start (like Tesco's kcr60) and hyping it too much and failed to deliver (Lundin's trimaran & AH-140 'steel cut') then posing it as 'classified' matters after the fact as a form of damage control, is another thing altogether.

It's Indonesia after all, based on the past experiences, if there's no firm confidentiality contract & enforcement stated from the start, they will boast, bragg, and hype it to the moon and over every chance they have. The fact that they did do all that and went silent after all their earlier publicity stunt and statements in reference to the program is quite telling.

It is not about being classified or so on.
Havelsan did not include the frigate in the brochure for one clear reason;
It was not a contract but MoU signed for the frigates. Just same as the FPB that once rumored to be purchased from Turkish shipyards. And Turkish companies do not take MoUs signed with some Indonesian companies for granted anymore.

PAL may also sign the contract with Terma or Thales or Leonardo or even Navantia, i won't be surprised at this point. I don't think they have a capability to assess effectiveness of CMS thoroughly. It should be Navy who does this evaluation, not some management guys.