Greece Analysis Greece eyeing boost with F-35, Rafale aircraft

[Oublious]

With minimal effect....

No, Syrian airforce don't have much and it was more a warning shot. They destroyed a lot of buildings. Imagine Greece storage of weapons and fighters...

 

[Costin84]

You don't need to destroy an entire airbase. You can just deny them operation by cratering the runways and taxi-ways first and then target the aircraft (shelters) individually. That is entirely in the realm of possibilities of today's technology. The Chinese have converted their dumb artillery rockets to 300-400 km ranged pin-point strike weapons. Something that was unimaginable 30 years ago and impossible 10 years ago.

The Iranians have proven their accuracy both in tests, exercises and IRL operations. Taking Russia as an example is bad because of the INF treaty that prevented them from producing BM and SSM with a range of 500-5500km. You should take the Chinese as an example of what conventional BM and SSM can do.

The INF treaty has prevented Russia and the US from developing BM and continued their reliance of conventional airpower. But now that it has been scrapped, the race is on with the US developing conventional BM again.

If you think BM will destroy a 200 fighter jets AF on the ground and win a war, good luck with that.I ve said my piece.

 

[Oublious]

A satellite image after the airstrike...

 

[Costin84]

A satellite image after the airstrike...

View attachment 6558

They were flying aircrafts from that base hours later....

 

[Zapper]

So Greece is getting Rafales, upgrading it’s F-16s to Viper level and also getting F-35s.

In a few years they would have an air force that is on an absolutely higher lever than TuAF. Unfortunately Turkey can’t do anything to even try to match their upgrades and acquisitions.

The only way now is to just go Iran’s way and develop and produce as many missiles and rockets as possible, with as big of a range and as destructive as possible. Even if we don’t have the planes to match them in the air we should have enough missiles to overwhelm their air defenses and destroy their bases and infrastructure preemptively.

Numbers matter. Unless Greece acquires in excess of 70 fighter jets combined...there'd be hardly any impact

 

[Oublious]

They were flying aircrafts from that base hours later....

Minimum operationel....

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Any new procurement step to be taken by any nation will meet to multiple response to be given by Turkish side. Some European states still insist on not understand changing conjuncture in thie region. Turkey is not old Turkiye any more and you can not harm Turkish interests by performing old tactics. You can’t change the power balance in favor of any hostile nation. I tried to tell this situation by listing the answer to be given to Greeks in my previous post. No matter what you will supply them. If we were in 1990’s, This kind of procurements would make too much impact but Today, Turkey is on the latest corner before declaring own independance and Noone can stop Turkey after this period. There is not a single area Turkish industry doesn’t work. European or US embargo will serve more to our ambitious, even if It causes to delay some of our programs until we develop domestic equivalents or alter our routes to alternative suppliers.

 

[GoatsMilk]

When you hear people talking about Ballistic missiles as an answer to a proper AF,you know that you're in a Iranian style comedy, which I see getting very popular through the ME...

military embargos only made Turkey develop her own hardware. Short term it maybe difficult long term it will be good for Turkey.

Anyway, Turkey would never be allowed to use these weapons against another NATO state. So having them would only be good against non-NATO actors like Russia etc.

 

[GoatsMilk]

In an ideal world Turkey would be able to buy planes from a power non-european in origin. Buying from europeans always comes with troubles.

 

[500]

Rafale is total waste of money. They cost similar to F-35 but much less potent. Plus additional aicraft will give a maintenance headache.

 

[bsruzm]

One thing we miss here is that Greece plans these in accordance with ''serious'' developments in neighborhood =)

 

[Costin84]

Rafale is total waste of money. They cost similar to F-35 but much less potent. Plus additional aicraft will give a maintenance headache.

You have to consider the prices the Greeks are getting these Rafales for, which seem to be a true bargain, plus quite a quick induction into their AF.
Even if you have only 18, this could help you prepare the infrastructure and especially pilots for them, and once you have these things you could quickly be supplied with more machines if the proverbial shit hits the fan.

 

[Nutuk]

Greeks want everything, and if all their wishes had come true they'd have now 80 Eurofighters, 8 FREMM's, 4 Belharra's etc. etc.

Let them get it first and see than

At this moment Greece want to buy MMSC ships or F35. And if they really have signed the Rafale contract with the French than they will go for MMSC ships from the US (as they are gonna use the US supplied FMS credits).

Greeks dream a lot, but the financial situation will allow them only to buy either Rafale or F35, not both! Same with the multimission ships, either French or the American, not both!

 

[Yasar_TR]

For every action there is a reaction. To think that TuAF will sit on it’s laurels while Greece improves its airforce is wrong logic.
The “Ozgur” project will be in place with new Aesa radars fitted on enough planes to counteract the Greek move. Rb2e radar Rafale uses is a small diameter radar and also the an/apg83 on the f6v70 both hopefully will not be as powerful as the GaN based Aesa radar Aselsan is developing. Once fitted on our f16’s there may be close to 30 km detection difference between our planes‘ and Greek planes’ radars in our favour.
Going forward if push comes to shove , we will modernise all the block 40 f16’s as well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Also think about the Aksungur, Akinci and TB3 quantities being in large enough numbers. These planes will have deep strike bombing capabilities.
This means we do not need many of our f16’s for bombing raids. That will release more air-to-air capable f16’s. May be up to 2 planes for every Greek plane.

 

[adenl]

For every action there is a reaction. To think that TuAF will sit on it’s laurels while Greece improves its airforce is wrong logic.
The “Ozgur” project will be in place with new Aesa radars fitted on enough planes to counteract the Greek move. Rb2e radar Rafale uses is a small diameter radar and also the an/apg83 on the f6v70 both hopefully will not be as powerful as the GaN based Aesa radar Aselsan is developing. Once fitted on our f16’s there may be close to 30 km detection difference between our planes‘ and Greek planes’ radars in our favour.
Going forward if push comes to shove , we will modernise all the block 40 f16’s as well.

Bear in mind the CCIP upgrade provides 30% extra detection range compared to the current Greek Vipers. TAF has 192 F-16 with AN/APG-68v9 while HAF only has at max 40.

 

[Vergennes]

Rafale is total waste of money. They cost similar to F-35 but much less potent. Plus additional aicraft will give a maintenance headache.

The Rafale doesn't benefit from the economy of scale of the F-35,only 201 have been produced out of 321 aicrafts ordered. France being the biggest customer with 152 in service out of 225 currently planned,while thousands of F-35 are planned and more than 500 already produced.

The F-35 might actually be cheap to buy,but not to maintain,given its high maintenance and flying hours costs. So much that several European clients are going to reduce their flying hours so their budget doesn't skyrocket.

Greece got 18 Rafale of the latest F3R standard for an estimated cost (this isn't the final official cost) €1,7 billion,including training,maintenance,spares etc. The Greeks are accustomed to Dassault aircrafts given they operate and have operated for decades Mirage F1,Mirage 2000....

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Bear in mind the CCIP upgrade provides 30% extra detection range compared to the current Greek Vipers. TAF has 192 F-16 with AN/APG-68v9 while HAF only has at max 40.

Viper upgrade comes with APG-83 AESA. Here is the aprox detection ranges of these radars.

 

[Costin84]

The Rafale doesn't benefit from the economy of scale of the F-35,only 201 have been produced out of 321 aicrafts ordered. France being the biggest customer with 152 in service out of 225 currently planned,while thousands of F-35 are planned and more than 500 already produced.

The F-35 might actually be cheap to buy,but not to maintain,given its high maintenance and flying hours costs. So much that several European clients are going to reduce their flying hours so their budget doesn't skyrocket.

Greece got 18 Rafale of the latest F3R standard for an estimated cost (this isn't the final official cost) €1,7 billion,including training,maintenance,spares etc. The Greeks are accustomed to Dassault aircrafts given they operate and have operated for decades Mirage F1,Mirage 2000....

I wonder what India thinks seeing this price tag for the Greeks.....They pay like 3.9 billion € for 18 jets...

 

[Vergennes]

I wonder what India thinks seeing this price tag for the Greeks.....They pay like 3.9 billion € for 18 jets...