TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[DBdev]

Erdogan did the same 180 capitulation after damage is done, million times.

His Libya capitulation to Wagner terrorists,
Egypt EEZ deal wasted opportunity for no good reason,
Supporting losing side as always in Syria,
Getting Turkiye embargoed for Saudi murders,
F-35 fiasco,
...
And now Sweden fiasco.

If you secretly hate Turkish nation, as their president what will you do to make entire nation suffer, while still getting their votes?

You would put them in unnecessary conflict situations and make sure they will always lose and suffer as a nation badly, only to surrender after the damage is done. Tell me I am wrong.

 

[Zafer]

Erdogan did the same 180 capitulation after damage is done, million times.

His Libya capitulation to Wagner terrorists,
Egypt EEZ deal wasted opportunity for no good reason,
Supporting losing side as always in Syria,
Getting Turkiye embargoed for Saudi murders,
F-35 fiasco,
...
And now Sweden fiasco.

If you secretly hate Turkish nation, as their president what will you do to make entire nation suffer, while still getting their votes?

You would put them in unnecessary conflict situations and make sure they will always lose and suffer as a nation badly, only to surrender after the damage is done. Tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong beyond recovery.

 

[boredaf]

yeah but it turned into Quran burning and begging for EU membership. Another fiasco and another failure from AK party. Meanwhile Turkiye looks more and more like a degenerate in the worlds eyes.

Imagine people are voting for this crap.

Swedish politicians must be laughing at erdogan. They are financing, hosting and arming marxist pkk terrorists against Turkiye, yet they get to laugh at how dumb erdogans politics is that they got what wanted and in the worlds eyes look like the good guys. While Turkiye looks like the stereotypical shady middle easterner known for looking to cheat and swindle over every penny, but in the end failing anyway.

half a day before Sweden is accepted by you, you are begging for EU membership as precondition WTF was that all about? What mental illness causes one to behave so ridiculously like that?

Honestly Europeans must love erdogan, they finally get to be open about how backward, islamist and degenerate Turkiye is and no one bats an eye because thats what erdogan shows to the world that Turkiye is. People are voting for this crap, madness.

Couldn't agree more. I am not religious by any means, but someone who claims to be should never, ever bend to the will of those who not only allow but cheer the burning of Quran for any reason, no matter what the cost. I know international politics is complicated and you have to be pragmatic; but if I had any faith and someone insulted it this way, I would've simply got in front of a camera and say Sweden would never be a part of the NATO as long as I draw breath. Let them try to figure out how to appease us instead of the other way around.

Groveling before EU is even more shameful as that would never happen even if we became most progressive country on the planet. I don't know how old some of you are but I distinctly remember EU presidents saying they would never accept us even if we adhered to every request they made, long before even the current ruling party even existed. They had no intention of letting us join before current regime and they will not accept us even if they are gone.

 

[what]

Let's get back to topic. F16 procurement is on topic, but lets try to keep the surrounding politics in the politics thread. Thanks.

 

[TheInsider]

In order to convince Senator Menendez to sell F-16s to Turkey, the Biden administration offered to provide Greece with "unspecified tactical weapons for its defense against any future Turkish attack".

 

[Anastasius]

In order to convince Senator Menendez to sell F-16s to Turkey, the Biden administration offered to provide Greece with "unspecified tactical weapons for its defense against any future Turkish attack".

Menendez has to have blackmail on people high up because anybody else in as much deep s**t as he is legally would've been forced to resign ages ago.

 

[Heartbang]

Menendez has to have blackmail on people high up because anybody else in as much deep s**t as he is legally would've been forced to resign ages ago.

Nah everyone's equally knee deep in the that's just status quo for everyone there. They just found cocaine in the WH!

 

[zio]

We should not give 20 billion to USA,modernization of F16 and some AA missiles is enough ,but unfortunately our army wants like Turkish serpme breakfeast

 

[Anastasius]

Nah everyone's equally knee deep in the that's just status quo for everyone there. They just found cocaine in the WH!

Eh, not the first time. Bill Clinton was notorious for having the good stuff around during his two terms.

 

[Zafer]

It is only a few months to the expected date Kaan is supposed to fly and once he flies as expected it is only engines that we need to secure. With all the other plane projects we do not need to shovel lots of money into new F16 procurement. All we need to do is to upgrade the older models with a mix of domestic and purchased means in the light of the latest developments. I would simply use the invested F35 money towards such procurement and move on.

 

[boredaf]

It is only a few months to the expected date Kaan is supposed to fly and once he flies as expected it is only engines that we need to secure.

You are oversimplifying this way too much.

We have prototype that still has to go through several changes, from what I understand by what I read here, before it is ready to fly. We may have enough engine for the prototypes we build, but no more. And we don't even have an engine half as powerful as what we need, and what we have seen so far hasn't even been turned on, let alone actually fly. An engine good enough for Kaan is one of the hardest feat of engineering on the planet, regardless of our previous experience on other engines and it is not something that can be taken lightly.

While I do not like the idea of groveling before US or the West in general to get something we need, we cannot afford to put all our eggs on Kaan and hope that nobody will threaten us in the next 15 years, until we have enough of our own jets. We need an interim solution whether we like it or not.

 

[Zafer]

You are oversimplifying this way too much.

We have prototype that still has to go through several changes, from what I understand by what I read here, before it is ready to fly. We may have enough engine for the prototypes we build, but no more. And we don't even have an engine half as powerful as what we need, and what we have seen so far hasn't even been turned on, let alone actually fly. An engine good enough for Kaan is one of the hardest feat of engineering on the planet, regardless of our previous experience on other engines and it is not something that can be taken lightly.

While I do not like the idea of groveling before US or the West in general to get something we need, we cannot afford to put all our eggs on Kaan and hope that nobody will threaten us in the next 15 years, until we have enough of our own jets. We need an interim solution whether we like it or not.

I would give 5 years to a flyable engine while you want to give 15.

Given the pace of progress in the TFX development I would be optimistic that the remaining development work will be as fast, as the political support is still there.

Add to this that the only major threat to Turkiye comes from the West and not the East relying on the West more and more is not a viable option. We can only rely on ourselves and we should spend our money on strengthening our own technology base rather than somebody else's.

 

[boredaf]

I would give 5 years to a flyable engine while you want to give 15.

It isn't just flyable engine though, even though 5 years is an insane timetable given that we don't even have an engine capable of flying with half the power necessary for Kaan. And even if we somehow manage to make and fly an engine, we would still need to build them in enough numbers. And even if we did that, we don't have the capability to churn out enough Kaan to deter any threat in a short amount of time. Even if we had the engine and everything else ready by 2030, it'll take years before we have enough planes.

Add to this that the only major threat to Turkiye comes from the west and not the east relying on the west more and more is not a viable option. We can only rely on ourselves and we should spend our money on strenghtening our own technology base rather than somebody elses.

You want to cut off your nose to spite your face. We are already investing in our technology but the reality of the situation is we are far away from having our own meet our every need. You can be as optimistic as you want but that is the reality of the situation. We need *something* as soon as possible, not an ideal that might not even get into production in 10 years.

 

[Zafer]

It isn't just flyable engine though, even though 5 years is an insane timetable given that we don't even have an engine capable of flying with half the power necessary for Kaan. And even if we somehow manage to make and fly an engine, we would still need to build them in enough numbers. And even if we did that, we don't have the capability to churn out enough Kaan to deter any threat in a short amount of time. Even if we had the engine and everything else ready by 2030, it'll take years before we have enough planes.



You want to cut off your nose to spite your face. We are already investing in our technology but the reality of the situation is we are far away from having our own meet our every need. You can be as optimistic as you want but that is the reality of the situation. We need *something* as soon as possible, not an ideal that might not even get into production in 10 years.

The reality of the situation is we haven't started engine development just today, we have some background in it and in 5 more years we can get there. I am being realistic, you are being pessimistic.

We are some of the frontrunners in unmanned fighters too, and it is also part of the picture.

 

[uçuyorum]

I would give 5 years to a flyable engine while you want to give 15.

Given the pace of progress in the TFX development I would be optimistic that the remaining development work will be as fast, as the political support is still there.

Add to this that the only major threat to Turkiye comes from the West and not the East relying on the West more and more is not a viable option. We can only rely on ourselves and we should spend our money on strengthening our own technology base rather than somebody else's.

15 is said by Mahmut Akşit, so yeah.

 

[Zafer]

15 is said by Mahmut Akşit, so yeah.

Are you saying we need 15 more years, if not what are you saying?

 

[Ahlatshah]

The reality of the situation is we haven't started engine development just today, we have some background in it and in 5 more years we can get there. I am being realistic, you are being pessimistic.

We are some of the frontrunners in unmanned fighters too, and it is also part of the picture.

We should not make a plan based on 'hope' or 'realistic' scenario, we have to make a plan for the worst situation. I do believe we can make a good engine and fighter jet, also we will have UCAVs, but there are thousands of things may go wrong and may extend our timeline. For that reason we need those F16s. We must find a way to get them, along with engines for the Kaan.

May this be the our last arm purchase from Americans.

Amin

 

[godel44]

Agree on the need to upgrade F-16s until Kaan arrives, disagree on buying it from Americans rather than using Ozgur. $20B is too much money to be spent on external purchases.

 

[dBSPL]

Agree on the need to upgrade F-16s until Kaan arrives, disagree on buying it from Americans rather than using Ozgur. $20B is too much money to be spent on external purchases.

Worse, if this $20 billion is only for the combatant fleets, there are other needs that could amount to about as much as this. Especially in logistics and some specific types, aircrafts, ground platforms etc. Unfortunately, our air force has been slow in acquiring new aircraft platforms for a long time (and the JSF issue was the candle on the cake), while the risks in the region have been increasing in the opposite proportion. A similar situation applies to our naval forces. Fortunately, the strategic planning there has begun to yield results, and in 5-6 years we may be able to close this gap - if we do not pursue fantasies - . Our air force is not close to that point yet, and the expansion of the F-16 ÖZGÜR project could be a way out to get closer, but as far as I can understand, the staff is not fully convinced about this, or there are other things, obstacles, we don't know yet.

 

[Afif]

but as far as I can understand, the staff is not fully convinced about this, or there are other things we don't know.

Didn't we hear definitive announcement from Ismail Demir that ÖZGÜR would be extended to block 40 and 50?