Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Relic

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I hope your joking.
It was sarcastic. Russia will never accept that offer, but Ukraine should not negotiate for anything less. They've twice had Russia annex (through force) their territory over the last 9 years. In what world should they simply give up a huge swathe of their most economically viable land (minerals, farming and ports) simply to appease Russian aggression?

Ukraine is taking the approach any proud nation should. You want to invade us and launch missiles at civilians? Fine, but it's going to be at the cost of hundreds of thousands of Russia's sons going home to their miserable families in bodybags (if they're not cremated in Ukraine ahead of time). The people that want Ukraine to capitulate in order to appease Russia are simply cucks / Russians bots. The West ought to ramp up support for Ukraine even further and make every inch of territory Russia wants to take an absolute nightmare. NATO does not want Ukraine under Russia's sphere of influence, threatening Poland and Romania.

And the West has frozen more than $300 Billion worth of Russia's foreign assets. They 100% should liquidate all of them and fund the war / rebuild in Ukraine by using Russia's own money against them. They should not lift a single sanction on Russia post war until not only has Russia agreed to pay hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, but at least 1/3 of the total money is transferred to Ukraine, to show Russians will actually act in good faith for once.
 
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FiReFTW

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It was sarcastic. Russia will never accept that offer, but Ukraine should not negotiate for anything less. They've twice had Russia annex (through force) their territory over the last 9 years. In what world should they simply give up a huge swathe of their most economically viable land (minerals, farming and ports) simply to appease Russian aggression?

Ukraine is taking the approach any proud nation should. You want to invade us and launch missiles at civilians? Fine, but it's going to be at the cost of hundreds of thousands of Russia's sons going home to their miserable families in bodybags (if they're not cremated in Ukraine ahead of time). The people that want Ukraine to capitulate in order to appease Russia are simply cucks / Russians bots. The West ought to ramp up support for Ukraine even further and make every inch of territory Russia wants to take an absolute nightmare. NATO does not want Ukraine under Russia's sphere of influence, threatening Poland and Romania.

And the West has frozen more than $300 Billion worth of Russia's foreign assets. They 100% should liquidate all of them and fund the war / rebuild in Ukraine by using Russia's own money against them. They should not lift a single sanction on Russia post war until not only has Russia agreed to pay hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, but at least 1/3 of the total money is transferred to Ukraine, to show Russians will actually act in good faith for once.
The thing is that this war will not end without negotiations im almost sure of it.
Sooner or later someone will have to sit down and settle something, Ukraine wants 1, 2 and 3, russia wants 4, 5 and 6, neither side can obviously get all what they want, they will have to settle for some middle ground, as much as you or someone else would like a complete defeat of russia and complete loss, it won't happen I just don't see it because Putin has no options after these strategic defeats to give in, he will go till the very end and im afraid that the death toll on both sides will be extremely high, tons of people died already and tons of more will die, but I think it will go down to a negotiating table in the end, I can't see any other way, unless NATO gets involved militarly directly and that won't happen.
 

MaciekRS

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That will be disaster if they settle for some "middle ground".
It would mean that it is OK to attack neigbour, take as much territory as possible and then settle for half of it.
 

Gary

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FireFTW has a point, all wars would eventually draw to a halt and someone needs to back down eventually.

Without NATO Donbass Storm intervention, war is pretty much protracted where no one really wins. Iran and Iraq took 8 years to figure it out by exhaustion, lets see how long does two countries with a combined population of 180 million men to figure it out.
 

FiReFTW

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That will be disaster if they settle for some "middle ground".
It would mean that it is OK to attack neigbour, take as much territory as possible and then settle for half of it.
Yeah but I don't really see an alternative here
 

contricusc

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Yeah but I don't really see an alternative here

More advanced weapons to Ukraine, until they manage to break through Russian defences. They still have very few cruise missiles and a very outdated Air Force. If the US would start to be serious about helping Ukraine win the war, it would be possible to end it with a Ukrainina victory.

But for this to happen, the US must decide it wants Ukraine to win, instead of continuing their current position of wanting the war to last forever in order to exhaust Russia and Europe as much as possible.
 

Soldier30

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On the night of July 18, the Russian army attacked the Ukrainian ports of Odessa and Nikolaev with Kalibr missiles and Geran-2 drones. The missile attack was carried out on the objects of the port infrastructure, which were used for military purposes. A number of strikes were also carried out on the Artsyz airfield in Odessa, which is a parking lot for military drones of the Ukrainian army. Ukrainian media report that all missiles were shot down.


After an information lull, Russian Terminator combat vehicles began to be used again in Ukraine. Footage of the night attack of Terminator combat vehicles of the tenth tank regiment of the Russian armed forces in the Avdeevsky direction. The video was filmed from the first person, the fire is carried out by a 30-mm automatic gun 2A42 and the Ataka-T guided weapon system


Footage of the work of Russian aircraft controllers in Ukraine and their story about their work.

 

FiReFTW

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More advanced weapons to Ukraine, until they manage to break through Russian defences. They still have very few cruise missiles and a very outdated Air Force. If the US would start to be serious about helping Ukraine win the war, it would be possible to end it with a Ukrainina victory.

But for this to happen, the US must decide it wants Ukraine to win, instead of continuing their current position of wanting the war to last forever in order to exhaust Russia and Europe as much as possible.

First of all the US is not going to send its MOST advanced weapons to end up in Russian hands.

Second you need manpower and you need to train that manpower to use weapons.

Then there is so much work to train an army to use tactics well and logistics and so many things.

Some people think that the west can just send 2000 tanks and 500 aircraft and 5000 artillery and Ukraine will smash Russian defences, this is not a vídeo game.
 

contricusc

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First of all the US is not going to send its MOST advanced weapons to end up in Russian hands.

Second you need manpower and you need to train that manpower to use weapons.

They don’t need to send their “most advamnced” weapons. They need to send ATACMS, AGM-158 JASSM and F16s.

Those two missiles and the addition of F16 jets could very well tip the balance on the battlefield in the favor of Ukraine.

The Storm Shadows have helped a lot, but Ukraine is very lmited in how much it can use them because of the small numbers it gets. The US has much more missiles than the UK or France, and it can send larger quantities that could alter the battlefield and destroy the morale and logistics of Russians.
 

Relic

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They don’t need to send their “most advamnced” weapons. They need to send ATACMS, AGM-158 JASSM and F16s.

Those two missiles and the addition of F16 jets could very well tip the balance on the battlefield in the favor of Ukraine.

The Storm Shadows have helped a lot, but Ukraine is very lmited in how much it can use them because of the small numbers it gets. The US has much more missiles than the UK or France, and it can send larger quantities that could alter the battlefield and destroy the morale and logistics of Russians.
I've long said the following (or something similar) could change an entire front of the war.

100 Storm Shadow (Britain)
100 SCALP (France)
100 Taurus (Germany)
200 JASSM (USA)
200 ATACMS (USA)
500 JDAM-ER (USA)

The amount of damage that Ukraine could do to supply depots, command posts, radar sites, SAM sites and other Russian nerve centers with that type of long, precision strike capability could / would completely incapacitate Russia's war effort in a long stretch of the front.
 

GoatsMilk

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Girkin writes:

The moment of truth is getting closer.

Or rather, the time is getting closer when my oldest (from the beginning of the Syrian campaign) forecasts about the development of the situation in the "Ukraine-Turkey-Syria" connection will come true.

For those who did not read and did not listen to me in 2015-2016, I remind (point by point) my theses, which have never changed since then and have not become (in my opinion) less likely:

Sooner or later, the Russian Federation will have to enter into a direct military clash with Turkey on the initiative of the latter. The fighting will take place in Syria, in the Transcaucasus and on the Black Sea. The direct participation of large contingents of Turkish troops (under the guise of "volunteers" or even without such cover) in operations against our army in Ukraine and Crimea is not ruled out.
The Turks will begin to move on to a direct open confrontation with the Russian Federation after they "squeeze dry" from the Kremlin's amazing people all the concessions that can be obtained peacefully. Then they will begin to put pressure on military force. The Turks will choose the moment of entry into the war, taking into account the maximum weakening of the military forces of the Russian Federation and the unpreparedness to repel Turkish aggression.
The first stage will be the closure of the Bosporus and Dardanelles for our fleet and supply ships delivering reinforcements to Syria (Erdogan may take this action to be implemented already this year).
This will be followed by a series of armed provocations in Syria by the so-called. "armed opposition" against our troops in order to expand the zone of control of the pro-Turkish authorities. After waiting for the depletion of ammunition and supplies, Turkish troops will try to inflict a complete defeat on our expeditionary force and Syrian troops in northern Syria. Naturally, only the Russian Federation and official Damascus will be blamed for the escalation of the conflict.
Our expeditionary corps, cut off from supplies and reinforcements, does not have the opportunity to defeat the Turkish army.

- The fate of our peacekeeping contingent in Karabakh and Armenia seems just as unenviable. Which will be crushed and (at best) interned by the Armenians, or simply destroyed and captured by the Turkish-Azerbaijani coalition.

The only thing that can deter the Turks (apart from the direct threat of the use of nuclear weapons, which is fraught with a world nuclear war) from defeating our troops in Syria is the direct intervention of Iran and its readiness to directly enter into a military confrontation with Turkey in Syria and the Transcaucasus (I remind you that Turkey is strenuously is now friends with the main opponents of Iran - Israel).

In any case, even if Ankara does not dare to go into a full-scale military conflict with the Russian Federation, the Turks will "strangle" our grouping in Syria, since all communications are based on sea supplies through Novorossiysk to Tartus, and blocking the airspace with Syria is also not a problem for the Turks .

The question of the timely withdrawal of our expeditionary force in Syria has long been "overripe", but has not yet been raised as such. - A large group of our military remains "hostage" to Erdogan. With a high probability, we can expect that the long-awaited rejection of the shameful and senseless "grain deal" will set in motion a chain of consequences that naturally leads to a sharp aggravation of Russian-Turkish relations and an acceleration of Turkey's inevitable transition to the camp of our open enemies.
The time allotted for the possibility of evacuating our troops from Syria during the "deal" is apparently lost forever.

Just shows how mentally sick the Russian establishment is, they are the victims and its the Turks who are encircling Russia. It reminds me of the Russian block headed minister going to india and in front of crowd stating that Ukraine attacked Russia and then everyone laughs.

Russians in nearly every trouble you are the instigator, you are no victim.

The Russian has 0% ability to accept any guilt or responsibility for any of the evil he commits, its always the ones he attacks and harms who is in the wrong. You cannot reason with these people all you can do is crush them on the battlefield, anything else is piss in the wind and a waste of time.
 

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The United States is preparing a new package of weapons for Ukraine - media





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Ukraine may receive Vampire anti-aircraft systems

The weapons will be purchased from manufacturers rather than drawn from the Pentagon's military stockpile, the sources say.


 
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Gary

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Ukraine unleashes with an even worse tank than the basic T-72 (or even T-62).


According to Aladdin Makki, the Iraqi Army Corps chief of staff, in a post-war interview, Iraqi sabot rounds "Went through the front Armour of the Chieftain and came out the backside". This as well as the Chieftain's poor off-road capability influenced the Iraqis to reject British arms sale propositions, who were at the time courting Iraq for arms sales that included Chieftain MBT's. According to Makki, when the British telephoned the Iraqi director of Armor, Salah Askar, he responded with "We don't want your stupid tanks!"

Ra'ad Al-Hamdani, an Iraqi general in the Iraqi Republican Guard, also expressed negative opinion on the Chieftain's performance in combat, stating "The 16th Iranian Armored Division, which was equipped with Chieftain tanks, lost a battle against the 10th Iraqi Armored Brigade with T-72 tanks. It is hard for an armored brigade to destroy a division in 12 hours but it happened; it was a disaster for the Iranians".[32]

 

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