TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
9,192
Reactions
67 31,254
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That is not true whatsoever. Sure, NATO has given Ukraine weapons and munitions, but, what NATO has given is nothing but a drop in the ocean that is NATO's arsenal. 155mm shells and rockets for older systems, while they are not without their worth, of course, NATO didn't supply their deadliest and most effective weapons, mostly because they wanted to draw out this war as long as possible to deplete the Russians, which has worked. If NATO truly wanted fight against Russians on the side of Ukraine, this war would've been over long ago.
When the ammunition of Ukraine's air defense systems based on the Soviet Russian architecture was exhausted, NATO added ammunition from Eastern European countries. Again, by promising Eastern European countries modern warplanes and tanks, NATO shipped warplanes and tanks, air defense systems, IFVs and APCs left from the Soviet Union to Ukraine. If Ukraine had been left to its own devices, we would all have seen what the real meat grinder was there.

Going back to the beginning, NATO's early warning aircraft surveillance flights never stopped, providing continuous intelligence to Ukraine. In addition, the cruiser Moskva was hit with the support of NATO aircraft.
Without this intelligence support and the training given to the soldiers, there would be no war at all. The Russians would smash it.

Ukraine did not even have money to pay the salaries of its own people. These coins do not grow on trees. It comes from the West.
 

Lool

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,918
Reactions
13 5,030
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Albania
When the ammunition of Ukraine's air defense systems based on the Soviet Russian architecture was exhausted, NATO added ammunition from Eastern European countries. Again, by promising Eastern European countries modern warplanes and tanks, NATO shipped warplanes and tanks, air defense systems, IFVs and APCs left from the Soviet Union to Ukraine. If Ukraine had been left to its own devices, we would all have seen what the real meat grinder was there.

Going back to the beginning, NATO's early warning aircraft surveillance flights never stopped, providing continuous intelligence to Ukraine. In addition, the cruiser Moskva was hit with the support of NATO aircraft.
Without this intelligence support and the training given to the soldiers, there would be no war at all. The Russians would smash it.

Ukraine did not even have money to pay the salaries of its own people. These coins do not grow on trees. It comes from the West.
No one is denying that NATO didnt have a role in supporting Ukraine to fight the war. It is without a doubt, that Ukraine is still alive to this day thx to NATO. However, let us admit that NATO is purposefully drawing out this shitty war by postponing the deliveries of advanced weapons systems to ensure that the Russians bleed out as much as possible.

IMO, NATO's main goal is to ensure that Ukraine's military strength is on par with Russia and not above it in order to inflict the maximum amount of damage on the Russians, Russian state and the Russian economy itself and it is working.

NATO only sends more advanced weapons system once every 6 months to 1 year with the latest being the F16s being delivered to Ukraine by the end of 2024 or the beginning of 2025 which can give us a glimpse to how long the US wanna wage the lovely war

Rumors suggest that Russia spent nearly 20% of its yearly state budget on the defence industry in the first 6 months alone; thus, going by this trend, by the ejd of the year, Russia will spend nearly 40% of its budget on the war if not more. So the question remians, how on earth will Putin cover the gap for paying the state institutions this year without harming the economy. Answer: Impossible

Just look at the ruble and the current account of Russia

At the end of the day, it is the Ukrainian citizen who will end up deported, tortured and raped till this war ends.... period! Since Putin, even if he lost, managed to decimate a decent chunk of Ukrainian lands and people to the ground just like what a terrorist would do
 
Last edited:

Hasanrize

Committed member
Messages
191
Reactions
5 545
Nation of residence
Finland
Nation of origin
Turkey
Need to import those commercial humansid robots and upload flight manuals ( i know being fighter pilot more than flight manuals) . Bayraktars KE AI has database
So our Air force will be totally unmanned

Those humanoid robots are utterly useless, except for mental effects. They are even more useless in as pilots or crew in manned vehicles.

Nowadays, pilots give commands to the flight computer, and that flight computer calculates the measures and gives another order to control surfaces and aircraft maneuvers. So when there is no pilot on board, it will be artificial intelligence connected to the mission computer will do the work of the pilot, not another 300-kilo robot sitting on the pilot seat.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Those humanoid robots are utterly useless, except for mental effects. They are even more useless in as pilots or crew in manned vehicles.

Nowadays, pilots give commands to the flight computer, and that flight computer calculates the measures and gives another order to control surfaces and aircraft maneuvers. So when there is no pilot on board, it will be artificial intelligence connected to the mission computer will do the work of the pilot, not another 300-kilo robot sitting on the pilot seat.
It is more efficient to employ a computer to the task but they actually made a robot with arms to manipulate cockpit controls. This makes deployment easier.



 

Xenon54

Experienced member
Switzerland Correspondent
Messages
2,181
Reactions
5 6,703
Nation of residence
Switzerland
Nation of origin
Turkey
When the ammunition of Ukraine's air defense systems based on the Soviet Russian architecture was exhausted, NATO added ammunition from Eastern European countries. Again, by promising Eastern European countries modern warplanes and tanks, NATO shipped warplanes and tanks, air defense systems, IFVs and APCs left from the Soviet Union to Ukraine. If Ukraine had been left to its own devices, we would all have seen what the real meat grinder was there.

Going back to the beginning, NATO's early warning aircraft surveillance flights never stopped, providing continuous intelligence to Ukraine. In addition, the cruiser Moskva was hit with the support of NATO aircraft.
Without this intelligence support and the training given to the soldiers, there would be no war at all. The Russians would smash it.

Ukraine did not even have money to pay the salaries of its own people. These coins do not grow on trees. It comes from the West.
Yet they keep Ukraine barely afloat to prolong the war, i would claim that if the west wanted they could finish the war within a month. The US has bigger concerns with China and will have to have for the foreseable future so keeping Russia busy as long as possible is more prefered than a Ukrainian victory.
This ofcourse means more civilian deaths but well, the US cares about civilian lives just as much as Russia does if you know what i mean.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,747
Reactions
94 9,068
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
@dBSPL can you post the full article please?
Cause, I ain't spending 14 usd for subscription.🙃
 

dBSPL

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Ambassador
Messages
2,293
Reactions
96 11,823
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
@dBSPL can you post the full article please?
Cause, I ain't spending 14 usd for subscription.🙃

The Fighter Jet Market Enters Its Multipolar Era​


Can the F-35—and the United States—keep up with new competition?​

By Richard Aboulafia, a managing director at AeroDynamic Advisory.



It’s rare that jet engines play a significant role in meetings between heads of state. But in June, when U.S. President Joe Biden hosted Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi at the White House, the pair released a joint statement hailing, among other partnerships, a “trailblazing initiative” whereby U.S. conglomerate General Electric will manufacture jet engines with an Indian state-owned company for New Delhi’s national fighter jet program.

Although jet engines may seem insignificant compared with, say, high-profile sales of fighter jets or tanks, the announcement points to an important global trend: National combat aircraft are making a comeback. Lesser powers have tried to develop national jets in the past, but now, more are succeeding—just as Washington is moving away from combat aircraft exports. The United States has started to prioritize the development of more capable and specialized jets, rather than export-oriented, jack-of-all-trades jets, so that its military can be better equipped for the rise of superpowers such as China. But the unintended consequence of Washington’s policies will be a diminished presence on the export fighter market.

By the late 2030s, the global fighter market—and defense market in general—will be much more fragmented, and less U.S.-dominated, than today. Countries aren’t going to rely on U.S.-produced fighter jets forever, and if Washington doesn’t adapt by prioritizing the sale of the systems and technologies that power other countries’ jets, the United States will fall behind in the global defense market.


There was a time when almost every major (and minor) power wanted to build its own combat jet. In the 1980s, South Africa, Taiwan, Yugoslavia, Brazil, Romania, Israel, Japan, and India, among other countries, had national fighter jet schemes. A few of these homegrown jets were built—in relatively small numbers—but most simply vanished during the 1990s.

There were many reasons for the collapse of these national programs. As post-Cold War defense budgets shrank, so did the fighter market. Economies liberalized, trade barriers came down, and industrial policy fell out of fashion. The United States, meanwhile, did a great job selling off-the-shelf jets. Lockheed Martin’s F-16 dominated the market, offering tremendous value for money with no upfront development costs. Between 1991 and 1995, Western manufacturers built 1,667 fighter aircraft; 727 of these were F-16s, and 597 were other U.S. types, according to AeroDynamic Advisory data.

As a follow-on, the United States created the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which entered service in 2015. The F-35 cemented Washington’s export dominance in the global fighter-jet market. With more than 20 export customers so far from Norway to South Korea, the F-35, like its predecessor, has been a great success. But the F-35 is a product of the post-Cold War era, when nations were content to buy off-the-shelf products. As new competitors enter the market, the F-35 will not be enough to carry U.S. industry into the future.

stat.PNG



Japan is a good example of what happened to national fighter programs—and where they might be headed. In the 1990s, Japan spent billions of dollars developing the Mitsubishi F-2 and was met with the predictable teeth gnashing in Washington about technology transfer leading to the United States surrendering its lead in combat aircraft and defense exports. But realizing it had wasted money to essentially reinvent the F-16, Japan built fewer than 100 F-2s. The country now plans to buy 147 off-the-shelf F-35s. Yet despite its reliance on U.S. fighters, Japan recently teamed up with the United Kingdom to co-develop a new jet that will be built in both countries. Starting in the late 2030s, London and Tokyo will stop procuring F-35s and start to build their joint aircraft.

South Korea, the only national fighter producer to start new aircraft development since the Cold War, is the country that really started (or restarted) this trend, with the KF-21 Boramae. Now, Turkey, with its Kaan TF fighter, has joined in. Taiwan is back in the game too, with a reborn Ching-Kuo trainer and light attack version and a next generation fighter after that. The United Arab Emirates, a major fighter market, revealed its ambitions earlier this year to create its own aircraft.

India’s status is a bit oxymoronic—it’s a legacy emerging producer. New Delhi has been trying to build its own jet fighter since the 1950s. The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft program—the subject of the White House announcement—has been underway since the early 1980s and entered the market in small quantities 2015. But the Tejas may now be ready to ramp up to a double-digit production rate, especially with General Electric’s help.
India also wants to follow the Tejas with a larger, less obsolescent advanced medium combat aircraft that will enter service in the 2030s. Yet unlike most other emerging producers, there’s reason to be skeptical of India’s ability to scale production, since New Delhi largely relies on state-owned contractors rather than the private sector.

It’s not just fighters. Medium powers are planning to bulk up on domestic missile programs, space systems, munitions production, and sustainment capabilities. Australia is seeking partnerships with other countries and international contractors to create industries for missiles, drones, and, famously, AUKUS submarines. Israel didn’t get to build a jet fighter after its IAI Lavi program was canceled in 1987—and likely won’t, partly because Israel enjoys priority access to U.S. aircraft—but its defense exports have reached record highs, particularly in missile defense. Even Saudi Arabia, which until recently had almost no in-country defense industrial capacity, now aims to localize 50 percent of national defense procurement by 2030—and it might even want to join the U.K.-Japan fighter project.

There are many reasons for a renewed emphasis on defense capabilities. As tensions have increased in Asia, and now Eastern Europe, defense budgets have soared. Meanwhile, emerging producer countries are educating more engineers and technical personnel. By contrast, legacy producer countries are coping with rising labor costs and a tight supply of technical workers.
Then there’s the return of industrial policy. National aerospace achievements confer a kind of technocratic and national-security legitimacy to politicians—a feeling that the guy at the top knows what he’s doing, even if his plans cost a lot. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for instance, used his country’s aerospace industry to bolster his recent reelection campaign; defense technology partnerships with other countries have also boosted his government’s soft power abroad.

But it’s the war in Ukraine that has really turbocharged the national fighter trend. There’s a growing consensus that the world needs much more defense industry capacity, not less. South Korea, the only country that spent the past 30 years accelerating plans for a national defense industry, has been rewarded handsomely, with orders from Turkey, Norway, Indonesia, and many other countries for hundreds of tanks, artillery pieces, and aircraft—including, most recently, 48 FA-50 light fighters for Poland.


There is also a gap in the market. Moscow was the world’s second-largest defense exporter for years, but its exports were declining even before it invaded Ukraine in 2022. Russia’s two big markets were China, which greatly increased its defense self-reliance, and India, which has been shifting toward Western and alternative suppliers. Russia’s war all but dooms its defense export future, particularly for high-profile systems such as fighter jets. And as I’ve written before, China has gotten nowhere in terms of taking Russia’s position.

Unfortunately, the United States is not poised to fill the gap in the long run. The F-35 was created in a very different time, when Washington believed that the absence of a peer adversary meant that just one fighter could satisfy the needs of all U.S. services and most international customers.

But Washington’s strategy has changed. The U.S. Air Force Next Generation Air Dominance program aims to produce a very expensive, very large jet by the early 2030s that is unlikely to be exportable for both cost and security reasons (as with the last all-U.S. Air Force fighter, Lockheed Martin’s F-22). The U.S. Navy’s F/A-XX won’t arrive until the mid 2030s at the earliest, but it will also be large and expensive, optimized for aircraft carrier operations—a capability that few importers need. The United States will continuously upgrade the F-35, but by the late 2030s, age and the development of newer aircraft will weigh against its overall appeal.


As the combat aircraft industry fragments further, Washington will likely lose its historic market dominance. U.S. companies and officials, therefore, need to be more proactive in competing with European producers to provide technologies and systems for other countries’ fighter programs, using the General Electric engine sale to India as a template for the future.

So far, while the United States has dallied, European companies have recognized that emerging fighters are a significant opportunity, and are developing systems and technologies that cater to these fighters; for instance, Italian defense firm Leonardo recently partnered with South Korea’s Hanwha to create a new active electronically scanned array fighter radar—a technology that is essential for modern fighters.

On a regulatory level, U.S. officials need to speed up changes to arms export guidelines and regulatory regimes. Selling components such as radars, other sensors, and electronic warfare should be high priority for the United States. The Defense Department’s recent effort to streamline foreign military sales procedures is a step in the right direction. Officials should also work to approve defense system exports more quickly so that Washington doesn’t miss out on important contracts. Because U.S. officials slow-rolled technology transfer approval for South Korea’s KF-21 Boramae, the aircraft is mostly outfitted with European missiles and other European and Israeli technologies; the only major U.S. system on the KF-21 is General Electric’s F414 engines.

Regulatory reform is not enough on its own. U.S. contractors need to develop new products designed for multiple emerging fighters, ramp up marketing and outreach, and adjust their expectations. Although there will be more opportunities in more countries, business development will be harder, and production runs and contracts will be smaller. Twenty years ago, winning a place on a new jet such as the F-35 was a rare opportunity for a contractor, but the lucky ones essentially won the lottery. Now, there are lots of KF-21s, MQ-28s, and Kaan TFs, but with less hefty payoffs.

The United States cannot ignore the fact that the fighter market is changing. With the rest of the world wanting a piece of the action, U.S. industry’s share of the market will gradually shrink. But Washington’s commanding role in the global arms export market has strengthened its relationship with countries around the world. If it employs the right strategies, the United States can at least build on those relationships and retain a commanding lead in the technologies that power the world’s combat aircraft. Selling engines to India isn’t as lucrative as selling F-35s to the world, but it’s still profitable, and it beats losing business altogether.

foreignpolicy.com

The Fighter Jet Market Enters Its Multipolar Era

Can the F-35—and the United States—keep up with new competition?
foreignpolicy.com


Richard Aboulafia​


Richard Aboulafia is a managing director at AeroDynamic Advisory, an aerospace and defense industry management consultancy. He has followed the industry as an analyst and consultant since 1988.
 

AzeriTank

Contributor
Messages
711
Reactions
3 1,795
Nation of residence
Azerbaijan
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
Your only problem is questioning Türkiye's capabilities and the credibility of its products. If it was another country, you wouldn't have commented
He always have been like that for some reason. He joins some conversation, comments on them but when the times come, which happens often, he will find all excuses to say bad things about Turkish products for no reason. Some of you still couldnt know him or just making him talk by being silent. By tracking likes you can easily tell who is who
 

Xenon54

Experienced member
Switzerland Correspondent
Messages
2,181
Reactions
5 6,703
Nation of residence
Switzerland
Nation of origin
Turkey
He always have been like that for some reason. He joins some conversation, comments on them but when the times come, which happens often, he will find all excuses to say bad things about Turkish products for no reason. Some of you still couldnt know him or just making him talk by being silent. By tracking likes you can easily tell who is who
He made a valid point, bring your counter arguments if you disgaree instead of getting personal, people are not interested about your feeling in this thread, this is about TFX, not your cloudy judgement.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
The way I see it; Greeks, like many westerners have a platform fetish. They think F-35 would be a silver bullet that will finally hand them air dominance. I think that is a grave mistake. Will they have deep strike capability? Yes. Will they be able to 'snipe' our air assets? also yes. Will this guarantee them air dominance? hell no.
  • In a few short years, we will have a very robust stratified air defence umbrella. It's going to be network centric. That would pose a significant threat even to the vaunted F-35.
The F-35 is designed from the ground up to deal and devastate the kind of IADS you're talking about. It's just crazy to think what a single F-35 could do, let alone a flight, or a flight with other assets in coordination coming your way.

Just to give a picture here.

The first customised F-35I test platform is expected to be delivered to Israel by 2020. Former Israel Air Force chief Maj.-Gen Amir Eshel has called the F-35 “game changing” saying that Israel gathered new intelligence during a single flight by the F-35 early 2017 that other reconnaissance and intelligence gathering systems would take weeks to gather.


In modern war, information advantage is the #1 advantage that militaries seek to capture and exploit and there's no plane in existence better doing it than the F-35s. The ability to gather information alone is exceptional, not to mention its degree of stealth.

Technically once they locate the IADS it will be the exploited with the kind of turkey shots similar to what happened to Bekka Valley SAM site or Iraqi IADS in Desert Storm which once destroyed could soon translate to air supremacy and long enough into air dominance once other supporting infra to challenge them in the air got blown up.
 

TsumugiShirogane

Active member
Messages
39
Reactions
78
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The F-35 is designed from the ground up to deal and devastate the kind of IADS you're talking about. It's just crazy to think what a single F-35 could do, let alone a flight, or a flight with other assets in coordination coming your way.

Just to give a picture here.

The first customised F-35I test platform is expected to be delivered to Israel by 2020. Former Israel Air Force chief Maj.-Gen Amir Eshel has called the F-35 “game changing” saying that Israel gathered new intelligence during a single flight by the F-35 early 2017 that other reconnaissance and intelligence gathering systems would take weeks to gather.


In modern war, information advantage is the #1 advantage that militaries seek to capture and exploit and there's no plane in existence better doing it than the F-35s. The ability to gather information alone is exceptional, not to mention its degree of stealth.

Technically once they locate the IADS it will be the exploited with the kind of turkey shots similar to what happened to Bekka Valley SAM site or Iraqi IADS in Desert Storm which once destroyed could soon translate to air supremacy and long enough into air dominance once other supporting infra to challenge them in the air got blown up.
Exceptional capabilities of the F-35 will revolutionize air dominance on a scale never seen before. In 2010, F-35 detected and tracked the launch of a rocket from 1300 km utilizing it's Distributed Aperture System.
Carrying the most modern ramjet BVR missile Meteor, it doesn't fuck around. Deadly!
That guys talking about turboprops (imported from US) gonna stand a chance against it. Funny!
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,747
Reactions
94 9,068
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
In modern war, information advantage is the #1 advantage that militaries seek to capture and exploit and there's no plane in existence better doing it than the F-35s. The ability to gather information alone is exceptional, not to mention its degree of stealth.
Technically once they locate the IADS it will be the exploited with the kind of turkey shots similar to what happened to Bekka Valley SAM site or Iraqi IADS in Desert Storm which once destroyed could soon translate to air supremacy and long enough into air dominance once other supporting infra to challenge them in the air got blown up.


While there is no doubt that, F-35 provides unmatched information superiority.
And it is also true that, "in modern war, information advantage is the #1 advantage that militaries seek to capture and exploit" however, information alone won't destroy the IADS. You would still need kinetic and electromagnetic 'effectors' or combination of both to physically supress/destroy the IADS.

Unlike Bekka valley SAM site or IRAQI IADS, Turkish future IADS is equipped with GaN based dual axis AESA sensors like these.

1692449739821.png

1692449709244.png



In this case, if we consider the scenarios carefully, we can see it would be very difficult to suppress/destroy future Turkish IADS even with F-35s.

1. F-35 tries to jam the IADS sensors on its own. However, barracuda EW suit won't be able to jam long-range search radar (UMAR) or multi-functional fire control radar (ÇFAKR) even when utilizing the full power of APG-81 with narrow directed beam.
Because of the Simple fact that, there is a massive difference in size of Antenna array and power output Between APG-81/85 and UMAR + ÇFKAR.
Not to mentioned while trying to do that it would severely compromise the F-35's stealth and light it up like flash light in middle of the dark.

On the other hand, deception jamming and in particular DRFM is simply not practical against modern AESA sensors.


2. Overwhelm the system with a combination of large numbers high-end low-end precision weapons like cruise missiles, anti radiation missiles along with JSOW and SDM, as it would be forced to runs out of interceptors.
In this case, shooting interceptors against high-end CM and anti radiation missiles is not uneconomical as they are meant to shoot them down.
However, the problem starts with low cost glide bombs that is launched in large numbers (a F-35 can carry 8x SDB while carrying 2x BVR missiles) with combination of high-end precision weapons.
But the good thing is, Turkish IADS would be layered with short range rapid response systems like Korkut/GURZ that can comfortably shoot down saturated slow flying glide bombs and decoys using low cost 35mm smart rounds.

1692450444120.png

1692450477018.png



Thus, SIPER/HISAR would be able to preserve its expensive interceptors against cheap glides bombs and decoys like SDB and MALD that F-35 likely to deploy.



3.
Using AN/ALQ-249 next generation jammer mid-band (NGJ-MB).

1692452321223.png


IMO, its extraordinary power output likely to overwhelm the long-range search radar (UMAR) or multi-functional fire control radar ÇFAKR (Considering NGJ would be integrated with F-35 in the future, which seems unlikely at the time) However, even that would be highly complicated mission to execute as the Turkish IADS would consist of not one but multiple long-range search radars (UMAR) or multi-functional fire control radars (ÇFAKR) in any given sector.



And last but not the least, all of these above mentioned scenarios requires total freedom of maneuver and uncontested sky for adversary's Areal platforms even if it is a low observable one.
Unlike Iraq and Syria it simply won't happen with Türkiye.
Specially when TurAF will be equipped with their own LO air superiority platform. (KAAN)
 
Last edited:

blackjack

Contributor
Moderator
Russia Correspondent
Russia Moderator
Messages
1,396
Reactions
8 808
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Russia
IMO, NATO's main goal is to ensure that Ukraine's military strength is on par with Russia and not above it in order to inflict the maximum amount of damage on the Russians, Russian state and the Russian economy itself and it is working.
is it really working? How did Russia beat Germany in being the 5th country with the highest PPP and have not started any major offensives yet with all the gathering going outside Ukraine's border?
Exceptional capabilities of the F-35 will revolutionize air dominance on a scale never seen before. In 2010, F-35 detected and tracked the launch of a rocket from 1300 km utilizing it's Distributed Aperture System.
1692460911292.png

detecting and tracking are two different things.
 

Bogeyman 

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
9,192
Reactions
67 31,254
Website
twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Exceptional capabilities of the F-35 will revolutionize air dominance on a scale never seen before. In 2010, F-35 detected and tracked the launch of a rocket from 1300 km utilizing it's Distributed Aperture System.
Carrying the most modern ramjet BVR missile Meteor, it doesn't fuck around. Deadly!
That guys talking about turboprops (imported from US) gonna stand a chance against it. Funny!

Unusual Failure! F-35 Jets Operating In ‘Stealth Mode’ & Helping Ukraine ‘Failed’ To Identify Russia’s AD Systems​


US Air Force F-35A fighters detected unusual S-300 radar emissions that didn’t match with the existing database of the air defense system’s radar signature cataloged in the jets’ computers.

This was when the stealth jets were silently gathering electronic intelligence (ELINT) data on Russian air defense radars by flying patrols along the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO) eastern flank for the first three months of the war.

A recent article EurAsian Times reported the experience of the 388th Fighter Wing and the 419th Fighter Wing, which were discreetly eavesdropping on Russian radar emissions. But they were surprised to find unknown peacetime frequencies from the S-300 that the pilots knew was the system, but the sophisticated computers aboard the fighters could not identify.

It is common for ground radars to not operate in their actual frequencies in peacetime – called ‘war reserve’ – to prevent adversaries from knowing their capabilities. Twelve jets and around 300 airmen had arrived at Spangdahlem in Germany on February 16, 2022, eight days before the war began.

Stealth Fighters In Stealth Mode Listening to the Radio

The F-35s built a comprehensive radar emissions picture of Russian air defense systems with its highly advanced Distributed Aperture System (DAS) and shared it with other NATO air forces and their own crew.

“(The mission was to) vacuum up as much electronic data as possible from the surface-to-air missiles and aircraft dotting Eastern Europe to build a map to guide NATO operations,” said the report in Air Force Times.

“We weren’t crossing the border. We’re not shooting anything or dropping anything. But the jet is always sensing, gathering information. And it was doing that very, very well,” Col Craig Andrle, the commander of the 388th Fighter Wing.

And it was in Kaliningrad, the detached Russian enclave wedged between Lithuania and Poland, where the F-35s could locate and identify surface-to-air missile (SAM) sites and pass that information to the rest of the coalition.

The presence of an S-300 in Kaliningrad is only natural, as it does have an S-400 platform. It is a standard military as well as Russian practice to have progressively advanced air defense systems forming a part of an ‘echeloned’ or ‘layered’ defense.



But it was the unusual failure to match with the database inside the F-35 that surprised the pilots. Andrle said, “We’re looking at an SA-20 (NATO’s name for the S-300PMU-1 surface-to-air missile system). I know it’s an SA-20. Intel says there’s an SA-20 there, but now my jet doesn’t ID it as such because that SA-20 is potentially operating in a war reserve mode that we haven’t seen before.”

The report added that the jet didn’t always recognize objects around it since assets like air defense systems “have digital ways of evading notice.”

Expert Speak

Former Indian Air Force (IAF) MiG-25 pilot Group Captain Johnson Chacko explains this ‘war reserve’ or ‘training frequency’ as AD radars hiding features like ‘pulse width,’ etc. “This is done so that enemy surveillance does not identify this frequency and plan Electronic Countermeasures (ECM),” he told the EurAsian Times.

San Diego-based systems engineering specialist in radar, sonar, and satellite communications Stephen Pendergrast said AD radars war and training modes also have different pulse repetition frequencies or other modulation parameters.

“Militaries use Electronic Support Measures (ESM) that have a library of modulation parameters their adversaries use in peacetime to classify an emitter,” Pendergrast told the EurAsian Times.

This means the S-300 has additional peacetime modes that the US has not previously recorded. Former Pakistan Air Force (PAF) J-7 fighter pilot Squadron Leader Ali Hamza says if the F-35 cannot detect the S-300, “then it means the S-300 is also a complex challenge.” But he also points out that even the F-35 EW capabilities are still unknown.

Therefore, it can be concluded that Russia had anticipated the F-35s would try to identify and build a Russian radar picture, given their heavily advertised EW/ELINT role. They used a peacetime frequency that the West has not yet recorded.


Let the equipment in their hands be as perfect as they want. However, if the SIGINT library is out of date, it doesn't matter how perfect that hardware is. This is a race between ASELSAN and Tübitak SAGE's counterparts in the USA. The one who takes the lead in the race takes an advantageous position over the lagging behind.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,747
Reactions
94 9,068
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
I said relative to the US. They're still begging to the Russians for the AL-41's and the engine tech they already have has 1/10th the endurance of the US equivalents. (example, 1000 hour engine life vs 10,000 hour life of the equivalent Western engine tech)

@Yasar , i reckon your help is needed

Obviously, these hours numbers are not independently verifiable.
Still, it seems your numbers stucked in the past.
WS-10's early variant was 1000 hours.
Then gradually it increased to 1500 hours.
They had WS-10 base model, WS-10A, WS-10B and WS-10C. Each came with improvements.

However, here in 2023 we are talking about new generation WS-15 engine specifically designed for J-20. Which have service life of 3600-4000 hours. (Which btw is equivalent to US F414 and Russian AL-41)

 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom