TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[uçuyorum]

I expect KE, in addition to all the stuff our current UAV do with higher payloads / longer ranged munitions, to perform A2A missions as an extension of other air defence systems against most 4th gen and somewhat less modern aircraft, like Migs and Sukhoi etc. It would be additional capability that reduces the strain on main fighter fleet with cheaper operating costs.

 

[Quasar]

You seriously expect Kizilelma to replace any kind of fighter jet, not to mention 5th gen?
You guys are betting on hopes and prayers which is a stupid thing to do regarding the defence of your nation, to put it mildly...


@500 once said Ballistic missiles are the Airforce of poor man.

There simply is no replacement for a propper airforce when its about defending your borders, best exsample is the downing of Russian jet that came from Syria, what would we have done without the F-16? Shoot Rockets to Russia as a warning?

if, should, could, would.... right or wrong this is not my point

TODAY WHAT WE ARE DOİNG is ''our growing emphasis on balistic missiles, Air defence systems or navy projects like istif and hisar (showing flag in Mavi Vatan) ''ideal or not'' are seeking to provide at least short term solutions and I believe buying us enough time for Özgür and KAAN..''

This is an observation bro! if you want you can disagree and say no there is no growing emphasis on balistic missiles and Air defence systems (+cruise missiles) in Turkey

REGARDİNG our Air force if we can not magicly bring Özgur and KAAN in to existance tomorrow. ... our options are limited for NOW

 

[uçuyorum]

if, should, could, would.... right, wrong this is not my point

TODAY WHAT WE ARE DOİNG is ''our growing emphasis on balistic missiles, Air defence systems or navy projects like istif and hisar (showing flag in Mavi Vatan) ''ideal or not'' are seeking to provide at least short term solutions and I believe buying us enough time for Özgür or KAAN..''

This is an observation! if you want you can disagree and say no there is no growing emphasis on balistic missiles, Air defence systems in Turkey

regarding our Air force if we can not magicly bring Özgur or KAAN in to existance tomorrow. ... our options are limited

I mean yes, we are not doomed, so if we can't get x we'll get what we can and desperate times call for desperate measures mentality is understandable. Whether it will work or not, we shall see, but if Iran can manage we should be able to. It is a sad sentence to be writing however.

 

[Xenon54]

if, should, could, would.... right or wrong this is not my point

TODAY WHAT WE ARE DOİNG is ''our growing emphasis on balistic missiles, Air defence systems or navy projects like istif and hisar (showing flag in Mavi Vatan) ''ideal or not'' are seeking to provide at least short term solutions and I believe buying us enough time for Özgür or KAAN..''

This is an observation bro! if you want you can disagree and say no there is no growing emphasis on balistic missiles and Air defence systems in Turkey

REGARDİNG our Air force if we can not magicly bring Özgur or KAAN in to existance tomorrow. ... our options are limited for NOW

There is nothing disagreeing with your comment yet you get offended... anyways.
My point is whats being done today is simply not enough, most wars are won on the table and thats where our nation has been on a constant losing streak in recent decades. We need a sophisticated foreign policy, only then we can afford to fall behind our adversaries but what have we done? Basicaly ruined relations with everyone and put ourselves between rock and a hard place.

People simply say we just have no other option as if this was something to say so lightly, how fast people have forgotten that nations like Turkey can not afford to be without an option or a plan b.
I really hope for the success of KAAN, otherwise things look grim tbh.

 

[Zafer]

You seriously expect Kizilelma to replace any kind of fighter jet, not to mention 5th gen?
You guys are betting on hopes and prayers which is a stupid thing to do regarding the defence of your nation, to put it mildly...


@500 once said Ballistic missiles are the Airforce of poor man.

There simply is no replacement for a propper airforce when its about defending your borders, best exsample is the downing of Russian jet that came from Syria, what would we have done without the F-16? Shoot Rockets to Russia as a warning?

It is stupid to think a manned fighter pilot will take on an unmanned fighter in close combat. UCAVs have their superiorities and manned fighters will avoid contact. It is even more stupid to think I am thinking that Kızılelma will replace Kaan, they will complement eac other. But again reasoning with unreasonable is a waste of time.

 

[Xenon54]

It is stupid to think a manned fighter pilot will take on an unmanned fighter in close combat. UCAVs have their superiorities and manned fighters will avoid contact. It is even more stupid to think I am thinking that Kızılelma will replace Kaan, they will complement eac other. But again reasoning with unreasonable is a waste of time.

You make bold claims, pleas show me a drone thats capable of close air combat with any fighter.

 

[Zafer]

You make bold claims, pleas show me a drone thats capable of close air combat with any fighter.

You probably want to disregard Kızılelma's capabilities. The supersonic model being unmanned is expendable and will see no harm in taking on any fighter and firing its weapons.

 

[godel44]

Not to interrupt a good fight here but do people think KE can really do nothing at all against 4th gen aircraft? Here is an article that was posted here before where authors make a calculation that shows the opposite. I guess you guys dispute some of their assumptions?

In terms of TurAf strength, I think we all basically think the same thing: for ground missions we have never been stronger due to domestic production, which is why we can bomb PKK in Syria without running out of ammunition in a few days. For air to air we have a challenge to complete with Kaan. But our A2A strength was always context dependent. Even if we had F-35 we probably wouldn't be able to use it against anyone US doesn't want and if we do fight against someone US wants us to like Russia, we might even get F-35s as a gift.

 

[Xenon54]

You probably want to disregard Kızılelma's capabilities. The supersonic model being unmanned is expendable and will see no harm in taking on any fighter and firing its weapons.

Disregard what? We dont even know what capabilities it has yet, all we have seen so far are bold claims from the manufacturer without showing anything yet, if you have anything substancial in that regard then please come forward and enlighten me, im more than happy to be corrected if its about the defence of my nation.
Apart from that i havent even said anything about whether it will be capable or not except that it will not be able to replace fighter jets anytime soon.

 

[AWP]

once said Ballistic missiles are the Airforce of poor man.

absolutely wrong

In case of war ( Turkey vs Greece for example ), let's say 300 Typhoon missiles will evaporate all Greece air bases. Their air force will either land on sea or seek asylum in Izmir.

the Turkish EW capability + deep missile strike is a big nightmare .

 

[Zafer]

Disregard what? We dont even know what capabilities it has yet, all we have seen so far are bold claims from the manufacturer without showing anything yet, if you have anything substancial in that regard then please come forward and enlighten me, im more than happy to be corrected if its about the defence of my nation.
Apart from that i havent even said anything about whether it will be capable of not except that it will not be able to replace fighter jets anytime soon.

Its maneuvering is superb, there is no indication that it will lack big time in any aspect. It made more than half a dozen flights during last year's Teknofest. It even did formation flights with Turkish stars and Soloturk. I was kind of nervous a bit during overpass flights as it had only been months since its first flight.

 

[Deliorman]

absolutely wrong

In case of war ( Turkey vs Greece for example ), let's say 300 Typhoon missiles will evaporate all Greece air bases. Their air force will either land on sea or seek asylum in Izmir.

the Turkish EW capability + deep missile strike is a big nightmare .

This is what Russians thought will happen in Ukraine too... Still the Ukrainian Air Force is flying and making sorties to this day. And on top of that Greeks have a better Air Force, Air Defense and infrastructure than Ukraine. To destroy a whole air base you will need a nuke. Planes can be flown and landed on highways too.

Russians throw rockets and missiles on Ukraine every single day and still Ukraine is able to function and fight back.

 

[Afif]

absolutely wrong

In case of war ( Turkey vs Greece for example ), let's say 300 Typhoon missiles will evaporate all Greece air bases. Their air force will either land on sea or seek asylum in Izmir.

the Turkish EW capability + deep missile strike is a big nightmare .

There is a reason why Greece has 6 patriot batteries. Both PAC-2 and PAC-3.

Without adequate SEAD/DEAD capability you can't just shoot large numbers of balistic missiles as a primary strategy, as Ukraine war showed Patriot will shoot down vast majority of them.

And Don't think I am downplaying Tyfun's capability.

Characteristic wise it is not so much different than Iskander or Kinzal.

Despite having some maneuverability, any quasi balistic missile has physical limitations that cannot be exceeded.

And PAC-3 60g capable superior interceptor will always exploit those limitations.

 

[UkroTurk]

This is what Russians thought will happen in Ukraine too... Still the Ukrainian Air Force is flying and making sorties to this day. And on top of that Greeks have a better Air Force, Air Defense and infrastructure than Ukraine. To destroy a whole air base you will need a nuke. Planes can be flown and landed on highways too.

Russians throw rockets and missiles on Ukraine every single day and still Ukraine is able to function and fight back.

AFAIK F-16s are heavily depended to airbase. Even You can not just ignite the engine. Soviet fighters more independent.

If Russia pollutes the runways, the US F-16 becomes unusable

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[Heartbang]

There is a reason why Greece has 6 patriot batteries. Both PAC-2 and PAC-3.

Without adequate SEAD/DEAD capability you can't just shoot large numbers of balistic missiles as a primary strategy, as Ukraine war showed Patriot will shoot down vast majority of them, if not all.

And Don't think I am downplaying Tyfun's capability.

Characteristic wise it is not so much different than Iskander or Kinzal.

Despite having some maneuverability, any quasi balistic missile has physical limitations that cannot be exceeded.

And PAC-3 60g capable superior interceptor will always exploit those limitations.

He's got a point @AWP . You gotta knock down the radars 1st.

 

[Joe mark]

There is a reason why Greece has 6 patriot batteries. Both PAC-2 and PAC-3.

Without adequate SEAD/DEAD capability you can't just shoot large numbers of balistic missiles as a primary strategy, as Ukraine war showed Patriot will shoot down vast majority of them, if not all.

And Don't think I am downplaying Tyfun's capability.

Characteristic wise it is not so much different than Iskander or Kinzal.

Despite having some maneuverability, any quasi balistic missile has physical limitations that cannot be exceeded.

And PAC-3 60g capable superior interceptor will always exploit those limitations.

Your only problem is questioning Türkiye's capabilities and the credibility of its products. If it was another country, you wouldn't have commented

 

[Deliorman]

Its maneuvering is superb, there is no indication that it will lack big time in any aspect. It made more than half a dozen flights during last year's Teknofest. It even did formation flights with Turkish stars and Soloturk. I was kind of nervous a bit during overpass flights as it had only been months since its first flight.

Dude, why are you so delusional on every single topic in this forum?

KE is a nice project that everyone is excited to see how it develops but you can't compare it to a fighter jet. The drone was flown a few times and is still far away from even getting most of it's systems integrated on the prototype but you and those like you are already virtually masturbating on how it be better than the F35 or something.

Stop living in the dream world because every intelligent person in there is laughing at your delusions.

 

[B_A]

This is what Russians thought will happen in Ukraine too... Still the Ukrainian Air Force is flying and making sorties to this day. And on top of that Greeks have a better Air Force, Air Defense and infrastructure than Ukraine. To destroy a whole air base you will need a nuke. Planes can be flown and landed on highways too.

Russians throw rockets and missiles on Ukraine every single day and still Ukraine is able to function and fight back.

absolutely wrong

In case of war ( Turkey vs Greece for example ), let's say 300 Typhoon missiles will evaporate all Greece air bases. Their air force will either land on sea or seek asylum in Izmir.

the Turkish EW capability + deep missile strike is a big nightmare .

We will never fight Greek unless A Chinese-US war weak the western,

 

[UkroTurk]

I wish Hürjet would be Soviet style, depot independent light fighter.

If Russia pollutes the runways, the US F-16 becomes unusable

bulgarianmilitary.com

 

[neosinan]

There is a reason why Greece has 6 patriot batteries. Both PAC-2 and PAC-3.

Without adequate SEAD/DEAD capability you can't just shoot large numbers of balistic missiles as a primary strategy, as Ukraine war showed Patriot will shoot down vast majority of them if not all.

And Don't say I am downplaying Tyfun's capability.

Characteristic wise it is not so much different than Iskander or Kinzal.

Despite having some maneuverability, any quasi balistic missile has physical limitations that cannot be exceeded.

If Ukrainian war show anything, Yes you can over-saturate any target.

I dont want to get into this silly war game scenarios but here goes nothing. In any hypothetical war, We need to be able to over-saturate every greek naval base, airbase and naval ship. Çakır missile is developed for this mission and We will need more Çakır than Greece's entire SAM missile arsenal in the first day of the war alone, We would use 500+ missile at bare minimum. And This should cost 100-250m$ (0,2-0,5 m$ * 500) . This is doable within 5 years. No need to use Cenk for most target, It is only necessary for Peloponnese Region, Adriatic sea and around Athens. So, We can destroy Greece's SAM capabilities at a fraction of the cost And It is important to remember it took over a year for Ukraine to get Western SAM. And You can bet Greece wont get replacement less than a couple week.