TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Kartal1]

Is he being pressurised to announce good news prematurely?

I can't talk from his name so I can't answer this question. Maybe yes, maybe no, but there are facts pointing at the fact that he is unreliable source regarding issues like dates, time estimates etc.

 

[what]

As I said, Mr. Kotil either misled the people or simply lied. The head of TAI seems to have a habit of doing this. He initially claimed Hurjet will fly in Dec, 2022 and it didn't fly in that month.

It's politically motivated, many of our projects were aimed to be launched for the elections or at least to have big announcements in time for the elections.

 

[Spitfire9]

It's politically motivated, many of our projects were aimed to be launched for the elections or at least to have big announcements in time for the elections.

The plot seems to be fairly transparent to me. Is Kotil being pressurised to get Kaan into the air against his better judgement? Why was GTU-0 repurposed from static test bed unless it was to roll Kaan out to the nation early? I presume that taking GTU-0 out of commission as a test bed would prejudice the development process, so actually slow the programme down. If that is what has happened, that is ridiculous.

 

[Merzifonlu]

It's politically motivated, many of our projects were aimed to be launched for the elections or at least to have big announcements in time for the elections.

In my opinion, Mr. Kotil's statements are not motivated by politics. He makes such statements to create public pressure on TAI employees. I'm sure he also knows what reasonable timeline are for projects.

 

[boredaf]

Not only manned... We have another example with Anka 3 that was supposed to fly in Mart-May 2023. I don't mind if the first flight have to be postponed, but Kotil's statements are really misleading. My take on his statements is that he is doing it mainly for internal consumption and he knows very well what is the situation on the projects and their state of development/maturity. I prefer to hear that KAAN will not fly this year instead of listening to lies.

I'd add T-929 to that list, I don't think that prototype was actually ready at all and that is why we haven't heard a single thing about it since then.

 

[Zafer]

Erdoğan government currently does not need any additional political leverage that may come from defense industry achievements. However defense industry achievements can help greatly in foreign politics.

On the other hand Mr Kotil's or any other official's seemingly ambitious statements and constantly being in the spotlight can serve the purpose of setting milestone targets that pressure TAI personnel into moving faster which is a very good thing. They are heroes of Turkish people, mind your words talking about them.

 

[duveil]

Hi I have been following this thread for the last 2 years and I admired mostly because of the comments backed by solid data. So I never thought to be a member because of my lack of engineering knowledge. I just read it to understand technical details. Now I see comments like “we weren't great before this goverment”. So I thought maybe I can chip in too. Here it is.We are not great now either. We are working on it but we are way back right now. I hope we can achieve asap. I read this forum for a long time and I didnt understand the specific of the kaan engine deadlines . When TAF can send operational kaan jets with local engine for a mission is not clear. Maybe by 2035 . It is not bad but also it is not a achievement for s 20＋ years goverment. And thanks everyone around this thread. This is the only place I find tech info to understand general news about defence industry.

 

[Dosirak]

the purpose of setting milestone targets that pressure TAI personnel into moving faster which is a very good thing.

It never ends good when the top management hurries engineers to finish a project. Hastily finished engineering projects usually don't produce a quality product which makes the customers unhappy.

However, I don't think TAI as an organisation has that kind of culture, unlike Boeing.

 

[Zafer]

It never ends good when the top management hurries engineers to finish a project. Hastily finished engineering projects usually don't produce a quality product which makes the customers unhappy.

However, I don't think TAI as an organisation has that kind of culture, unlike Boeing.

IT is always best to deliver products in a timely manner, there are wars going on around the world and more is coming. It is always best to deliver in peace time; at war time you don't have the time to waste for the sake of industry practices.

 

[Rodeo]

you cannot deliver it as the customer won't buy if it doesn't meet the criteria. a deliverable product and a prototype are two very different things. at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the delivery. just because you can rollout a prototype and fly it earlier doesn't necessarily mean you will end up delivering it faster.

Temel Kotil should stop giving dates about FF. I don't think he purposefully misleads the public. He believes what he says. He also misinformed the secretary of defence about the first flight. He is overconfident and a tad politically motivated. He cannot be trusted with dates. That is actually the reason why I'm skeptical about KAAN's flight with national engine in 2028. The date is given by Kotil and I don't remember any TEI official indicating that year for the first flight(correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[TR_123456]

Hi I have been following this thread for the last 2 years and I admired mostly because of the comments backed by solid data. So I never thought to be a member because of my lack of engineering knowledge. I just read it to understand technical details. Now I see comments like “we weren't great before this goverment”. So I thought maybe I can chip in too. Here it is.We are not great now either. We are working on it but we are way back right now. I hope we can achieve asap. I read this forum for a long time and I didnt understand the specific of the kaan engine deadlines . When TAF can send operational kaan jets with local engine for a mission is not clear. Maybe by 2035 . It is not bad but also it is not a achievement for s 20＋ years goverment. And thanks everyone around this thread. This is the only place I find tech info to understand general news about defence industry.

Dont be a stranger,if you have questions be it technical or other,feel free to ask.
We are all here to learn.

 

[Dosirak]

IT is always best to deliver products in a timely manner, there are wars going on around the world and more is coming. It is always best to deliver in peace time; at war time you don't have the time to waste for the sake of industry practices.

I understand your intention is good, but rushing & pressuring the engineers to hastily finish a project doesn't always end with the best results. It doesn't matter whether it is war time or peace time. Engineering projects need a reasonable time window to produce a quality product and TAI's engineers will have a reasonable schedule to design, manufacture and deliever one of the best fighter aircrafts for Turkey no matter what you think of the time that they are taking to achieve that goal.

 

[ChadThunder74]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

 

[Zafer]

I understand your intention is good, but rushing & pressuring the engineers to hastily finish a project doesn't always end with the best results. It doesn't matter whether it is war time or peace time. Engineering projects need a reasonable time window to produce a quality product and TAI's engineers will have a reasonable schedule to design, manufacture and deliever one of the best fighter aircrafts for Turkey no matter what you think of the time that they are taking to achieve that goal.

TAI always have the means to expand its engineering capacity. They even utilize foreign engineering teams. Harder and smarter they have to pick up pace.

 

[Afif]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

Well, they do actually have DAS type sensor in development, and those extra AESA sensor will not always emmit though. Side looking arrays help keeping the target track while turning away.

I read somewhere, originally side arrays were also planned for F-22. But then later it was dropped due to cost.

 

[Oublious]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

In a dogfight first thing you do when they lock you to enemy and he locks you, crank the fighter left or right so the missile not reach you faster but the same time you keep mainting the lock on your enemey. With this side radar Kaan will fly away from the enemey but the same time locking the enemy.

Former Staff colonel saying that Kaan will fly in several days, we are waiting . This is not official....

 

[uçuyorum]

AFAIK wing radars are supposed to be L band on KAAN like SU57 supposedly has, to detect stealth fighters which have most significant return at that band.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dear members,
Please note that this is TFX KAAN fighter Jet thread.
Refrain from sharing off topic and politically motivated posts.
Posts as such will attract immediate warnings!
Please stay on topic.

 

[Umigami]

Roomy

View attachment 55267

Isn't that seat less recline than F16 / F35 / Rafale?

 

[Radko]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

It does have a DAS like system. IRIS-300