TR Politics

[Rooxbar]

AKP returned Van to DEM

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1775550362843308204

Such incompetence. They let this horrendous guy off the hook in 2022 (after he was going for hunger strikes saying Ocalan is being treated badly in prison or some shit) so after he wins they take over because they knew they have the guy's sympathies in bright daylight and they can get popular support for the move from the populace, not calculating the local backlash getting out of control which prompted them to give the municipality to one of the most extremes of the terror sympathizers. If this guy was disqualified, the terror sympathizers would have had to opt for someone much less incendiary. But the fact that these guys are normalized and we have to tolerate them is direct result of AKP's and Turkish liberal's stupid attempts at flattering the western actors during the 2000s and early 2010s.

Another aspect is that the opposition has tried winning over Islamists by courting anyone from Ekmeleddin to Davutoglu but they haven't been able to chip away at the Islamist voter base of AKP (which was a lost cause from the get-go as when a conservative religious party owns religion you cannot convince their voters to change their loyalty to those who are, in their minds, not religious and only pretending to be for votes). So after that failed attempt, the opposition has had no other recourse in the arithmetic of voter blocs, but to appeal to Kurds to even have a shot at dethroning AKP due to the demographics. Knowing this and how they have to react to such an incident as Van, the calculus for AKP is an easy one as the MEE article also showed how the AKP insider consultants think they lost this election because the party didn't listen to their clique and their campaign was not divisive enough.

 

[Bozan]

Such incompetence. They let this horrendous guy off the hook in 2022 (after he was going for hunger strikes saying Ocalan is being treated badly in prison or some shit) so after he wins they take over because they knew they have the guy's sympathies in bright daylight and they can get popular support for the move from the populace, not calculating the local backlash getting out of control which prompted them to give the municipality to one of the most extremes of the terror sympathizers. If this guy was disqualified, the terror sympathizers would have had to opt for someone much less incendiary. But the fact that these guys are normalized and we have to tolerate them is direct result of AKP's and Turkish liberal's stupid attempts at flattering the western actors during the 2000s and early 2010s.

Another aspect is that the opposition has tried winning over Islamists by courting anyone from Ekmeleddin to Davutoglu but they haven't been able to chip away at the Islamist voter base of AKP (which was a lost cause from the get-go as when a conservative religious party owns religion you cannot convince their voters to change their loyalty to those who are, in their minds, not religious and only pretending to be for votes). So after that failed attempt, the opposition has had no other recourse in the arithmetic of voter blocs, but to appeal to Kurds to even have a shot at dethroning AKP due to the demographics. Knowing this and how they have to react to such an incident as Van, the calculus for AKP is an easy one as the MEE article also showed how the AKP insider consultants think they lost this election because the party didn't listen to their clique and their campaign was not divisive enough.

They will use this to continue to paint CHP as "CHPKK", terrorist supporters.

They don't care about the laws or terrorism themselves

 

[RMZN]

They will use this to continue to paint CHP as "CHPKK", terrorist supporters.

They don't care about the laws or terrorism themselves

doesnt change the fact that the CHP leadership is indeed sucking off hdp/pkk terrorists for votes. No different from the AKP just a few years ago. All of this is an actual clownshow

 

[Rooxbar]

doesnt change the fact that the CHP leadership is indeed sucking off hdp/pkk terrorists for votes. No different from the AKP just a few years ago. All of this is an actual clownshow

They are doing the bare minimum to win Kurdish votes (they are just putting forward liberal arguments for rule of law, not supporting the candidate or anything or having clandestine relations with PKK unlike AKP). The onus is on AKP and the mockery of our judicial system which they purged and have politicized and use as a tool. Before AKP purged the judiciary these guys would have no chance of running to be then ousted when it is politically expedient for AKP.

P.S. To add a point about the viability of this strat for CHP, the Kurdish voters seem to be responding much more favorably to this bare minimum than the Islamists did to CHP's much more conciliatory strat of even the presidential candidate being an Islamist or CHP giving them 40 MPs.

 

[RMZN]

They are doing the bare minimum to win Kurdish votes (they are just putting forward liberal arguments for rule of law, not supporting the candidate or anything or having clandestine relations with PKK unlike AKP). The onus is on AKP and the mockery of our judicial system which they purged and have politicized and use as a tool. Before AKP purged the judiciary these guys would have no chance of running to be then ousted when it is politically expedient for AKP.

P.S. To add a point about the viability of this strat for CHP, the Kurdish voters seem to be responding much more favorably to this bare minimum than the Islamists did to CHP's much more conciliatory strat of even the presidential candidate being an Islamist or CHP giving them 40 MPs.

There shouldnt be any incentive for wanting the votes of those who have a problem with the very existence of the Turkish state. This sucking up wont end once the CHP is in power, it will only continue and more concessions will be made. Finally some time in the future the whole thing will blow up right in their face, just like how it did with the AKP "peace process". Then its right back to square one, with nothing being learned.

 

[Rooxbar]

There shouldnt be any incentive for wanting the votes of those who have a problem with the very existence of the Turkish state. This sucking up wont end once the CHP is in power, it will only continue and more concessions will be made. Finally some time in the future the whole thing will blow up right in their face, just like how it did with the AKP "peace process". Then its right back to square one, with nothing being learned.

Well, you're saying pretending to be democratic and having respect for rule of law is the first step in the slippery slope of giving parts of the country to the terrorist group; that happened during AKP rule not because they started off with pretending to be democratic and having respect for rule of law, but the fact that their starting point and deal with the Westerners was much more nefarious than that and Gulenists were at the center of it. Everyone tries to get votes, you can see it in Erdoğan's speech a couple of weeks back in Şırnak, very different from the rhetoric in inner Anatolia. The argument against courting of the Kurdish vote by CHP was that it will alienate the nationalist vote. Many were 100% sure about this (esp. the internet bros). I was neither here nor there; the election disproved that assumption empirically and for now that theses seems to be overblown. We'll see.

 

[RMZN]

Well, you're saying pretending to be democratic and having respect for rule of law is the first step in the slippery slope of giving parts of the country to the terrorist group; that happened during AKP rule not because they started off with pretending to be democratic and having respect for rule of law, but the fact that their starting point and deal with the Westerners was much more nefarious than that and Gulenists were at the center of it. Everyone tries to get votes, you can see it in Erdoğan's speech a couple of weeks back in Şırnak, very different from the rhetoric in inner Anatolia. The argument against courting of the Kurdish vote by CHP was that it will alienate the nationalist vote. Many were 100% sure about this (esp. the internet bros). I was neither here nor there; the election disproved that assumption empirically and for now that theses seems to be overblown. We'll see.

is dem/pkk any different? They cried about "democracy" just yesterday and now they are back in the streets screaming "biji apo".

Did the people truly vote for CHP or just against the AKP? Looking at the numbers a lot of AKP voters simply switched to YRP or simply not vote at all. They symbolically gave a vote of no confidence to the AKP, but if there was another presidential elections would they truly not vote for Erdogan again? Especially he he manages to somehow fix the economy, make political concessions to YRP and a few election "gifts" here and there.

 

[Rooxbar]

is dem/pkk any different? They cried about "democracy" just yesterday and now they are back in the streets screaming "biji apo".

I'm for banning of any separatist political party like DEM. Is it doable now having seen the ruckus because of banning one mayor? Who has created the atmosphere that such an action which was common place before 2009, is unthinkable now? If the judiciary went that route, would anyone believe that the decision was made independent of the ruling party? Who has legitimized HDP/DEM into being a legitimate representative of the Kurdish voter which have to be addressed by both the ruling and opposition party when they want to appeal to that voter?

 

[Radko]

To people claiming all the CHp fuzz about DEM was for the preservation of fair politics, here is an example from 2019 featuring MHP

 

[Bozan]

There are some videos of what looks like police brutality on social media in the southeast

 

[RMZN]

I'm for banning of any separatist political party like DEM. Is it doable now having seen the ruckus because of banning one mayor? Who has created the atmosphere that such an action which was common place before 2009, is unthinkable now? If the judiciary went that route, would anyone believe that the decision was made independent of the ruling party? Who has legitimized HDP/DEM into being a legitimate representative of the Kurdish voter which have to be addressed by both the ruling and opposition party when they want to appeal to that voter?

Then why does the CHP continue legitimize DEM and fall into Erdogans trap? Why is it that hard to go out and criticize both the decision of nominating a known terrorist support as well as the stunt the AKP pulled to get their man in power.

CHP may fear that if they become the "middle-man" in the situation they wont get votes from either sides but at the end of they day its Erdogan which managed to beat the CHP in every election and as long as the CHP cant garner votes from the AKPs base they will never win. I still cant fathom how they knowingly threw away their ticket to winning the most winnable elections ever.

 

[CAN_TR]

Then why does the CHP continue legitimize DEM and fall into Erdogans trap? Why is it that hard to go out and criticize both the decision of nominating a known terrorist support as well as the stunt the AKP pulled to get their man in power.

CHP may fear that if they become the "middle-man" in the situation they wont get votes from either sides but at the end of they day its Erdogan which managed to beat the CHP in every election and as long as the CHP cant garner votes from the AKPs base they will never win. I still cant fathom how they managed to loose the most winnable election one can only dream of last year.

What trap, lmao. Instead throwing this terrorist into jail AKP literally allowed him to participate in the votes, then we thought "kayyum loading" but AKP backed down, if someone fell into the trap it's AKP.

 

[RMZN]

What trap, lmao. Instead throwing this terrorist into jail AKP literally allowed him to participate in the votes, then we thought "kayyum loading" but AKP backed down, if someone fell into the trap it's AKP.

The fact that he profits off keeping a party such a dem/hdp around. Thus giving himself the ability to easily play the "chpkk" card, guaranteeing that his voters wont switch sides whilst also causing rifts in the voter base of CHP allies such as IYIP.

 

[CAN_TR]

The fact that he profits off keeping a party such a dem/hdp around. Thus giving himself the ability to easily play the "chpkk" card, guaranteeing that his voters wont switch sides whilst also causing rifts in the voter base of CHP allies such as IYIP.

After giving Van back to them you can't play that card anymore.

 

[RMZN]

After giving Van back to them you can't play that card anymore.

He can, especially after his statements suggesting that a trustee will be appointed sooner or alter. He can simply paint the whole situation as "I gave in to their demands out of good will, yet it turned out I was right all along whilst the CHP spoke out in their support"

 

[Radko]

also do we go by YSK's own words or DEM's words? Did YSK announce it or DEM?

 

[CAN_TR]

The f*cking terrorist could participate in the elections because YSK allowed it. Someone who should have been in a dark 1m² cell was allowed to run in the elections. There are people in HDP/DEM who have/had relatives in the ranks of PKK, those people shouldn't even be allowed to enter politics, before the AKP era such things were impossible.

But someone who would say "hudut namustur" or just talking against the "uncontrolled refugee politics" finds himself in Silivri the next day.

 

[Rooxbar]

The fact that he profits off keeping a party such a dem/hdp around. Thus giving himself the ability to easily play the "chpkk" card, guaranteeing that his voters wont switch sides whilst also causing rifts in the voter base of CHP allies such as IYIP.

that's just an ahistorical fairy tale. Back in 2014, during çözüm süreci, it was effectively akpkk (much more than it is chpkk now), and chp was fielding Ekmeleddin the arch-islamist. EVEN THEN, the akp islamist base chose akp over chp. so this story about how the akp voter doesn't vote for chp because of the insinuation of chpkk aided by chp's courting of hdp has no basis in reality.

 

[Ryder]

that's just an ahistorical fairy tale. Back in 2014, during çözüm süreci, it was effectively akpkk (much more than it is chpkk now), and chp was fielding Ekmeleddin the arch-islamist. EVEN THEN, the akp islamist base chose akp over chp. so this story about how the akp voter doesn't vote for chp because of the insinuation of chpkk aided by chp's courting of hdp has no basis in reality.

What a shitshow lmao

Basically akp and chp are two sides of the same coin.

Its disgusting how much theybare sucking up to terrorists even allowing them into parliament.

Sehit families should ban all these bastard politicians. All of them. If I lost a son I would spit on all their faces.

Terrorist supporters getting into parliament means all Turkish soldiers who were martyred have died in vain.

Whats the point of a operation to clean up Iraq and Syria when they are within the country? Do they think refugees will fight for Turkiye?

 

[Bozan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1775771429826416670

Why might the 1921 Constitution be desirable?

In the Constitution of 1921, there is a sultan and a caliph. There is no republic. There is no single-rank electoral system.
There is no suffrage for women in the 1921 Constitution. There is no secularism.
There is no prime minister in the 1921 Constitution. There are no political parties.
There is no Turkish nation in the 1921 Constitution.