Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Gary]

Russian loss=no big deal, Ukrainian loss=time to surrender?

One Su-57 more, one Su-57 less is not of any consequence in the same way as one kilometre of fields won or lost is of no consequence.

Russia lost just a tiny fraction of their air power while continuously expanding production capacity. Russia will not lose its air force from attrition.

OTOH, Ukraine is losing its men and most importantly morale. And that's irreplaceable. Sooner or later they will collapse the same way the two puppet nations of Republic of Vietnam and the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan collapsed. The collapse will be gradual and then it will be sudden, and all signs shows that Ukraine is leading there.

 

[FiReFTW]

Moscow's most modern fighter Su-57 was hit for the first time: details from State İntelligence

The plane was hit on the territory of the Akhtubinsk airfield in the Astrakhan region of Russia.

View attachment 68573

thats extremelly embarassing and incompetent, having modern fighters in such an exposed spot for 1, and 2 for ukraine to destroy it, lol.

 

[Spitfire9]

Russia lost just a tiny fraction of their air power while continuously expanding production capacity. Russia will not lose its air force from attrition.

OTOH, Ukraine is losing its men and most importantly morale. And that's irreplaceable. Sooner or later they will collapse the same way the two puppet nations of Republic of Vietnam and the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan collapsed. The collapse will be gradual and then it will be sudden, and all signs shows that Ukraine is leading there.

I would have been surprised if the cut off of weapons supply to UkAF did not affect morale. I will be surprised if it does not now improve.

Another reason morale may rise: until now Ukraine has been denied effective use of the weapons at its disposal. That is changing. It is far better to strike the bases from which bombers are sent to bomb you than to wait until they are over your territory dropping bombs on you. Attacking their bases with donated weapons was off limits. That is changing.

 

[Spitfire9]

@Gary

Infantile. disparaging, untrue comments are tedious.

What was Zelensky's response to being offered evacuation when Russia invaded? He said: "I need ammunition, not a ride!"

 

[Gary]

@Gary

Infantile. disparaging, untrue comments are tedious.

What was Zelensky's response to being offered evacuation when Russia invaded? He said: "I need ammunition, not a ride!"

Tbh in 2022, even teenagers would take up arms. Just a year after that we're seeing the phenomena of Ukrainian male getting dragged into vans.

These people are weak willed and cowards, true characteristics of democracies.

 

[Anastasius]

Tbh in 2022, even teenagers would take up arms. Just a year after that we're seeing the phenomena of Ukrainian male getting dragged into vans.

These people are weak willed and cowards, true characteristics of democracies.

Because Russians totally aren't being marched to the front line at gunpoint and fled the country in huge amounts to avoid being drafted.

Well, this is war, and Ukraine has lost their right to exist a long time ago.

They should accept reality and surrender. Maybe the Russians will forgive them and be lenient to the loser.

Lost their right according to who? You?

 

[Gary]

Because Russians totally aren't being marched to the front line at gunpoint and fled the country in huge amounts to avoid being drafted.

Why is it I only saw Ukrainians getting dragged on vans and not Russians? I scroll both pro-Ukraine and pro-Russian accounts on Twitter and all I can see is it's the Ukrainians who found themselves getting kidnapped by recruitment officers. So frequent are these kinds of videos that I only rarely post them here if they're bizzare enough.

Sometimes I laugh looking at the spectacles in front of me but sometimes I also realize that these people are just normal people, living their lives, feeding their children and just being unfortunate enough to be at the wrong place and the wrong time to be dragged into certain death at the frontline, another crime of the Zelensky regime.

Lost their right according to who? You?

Partly yes, but also by the will of god.

 

[Lordimperator]

Well, this is war, and Ukraine has lost their right to exist a long time ago.

They should accept reality and surrender. Maybe the Russians will forgive them and be lenient to the loser.

When I said Ukrainian nation will vanish, I mean their nationhood.

sure I'm ok if the Russians didn't wholesale massacre them until they go extinct, but at the very least the Ukrainians will lose their homeland, so in the future people will address them either by calling them :

1. Ukrainians, subject of Russia
2. Ukrainians citizens of the Russian federation

Judge by Indonesian Putinist

 

[Gary]

Oh btw, I realized that my previous post about Ukraine's fighting spirit has been deleted.

I will reiterate this again, in my response to @Spitfire9 , the Ukrainian's declining morale has nothing to do with lack of weaponry, they're just a bunch of delusional cowards.

How could I come with that statements? It's very simple. Ukrainians themselves admitted what is the Ukrainian people approach to this war.

people want a victory for their country but in a way that means they or their loved ones are not conscripted
(Volodymyr Fesenko, Ukrainian political analyst)

source :

Ukraine urgently needs soldiers, but some men are desperate not to fight

While volunteers lined up to fight Russia at the beginning of the war, manpower shortages are now an issue that could seal Ukraine’s fate even if it can retain Western support.

www.nbcnews.com

Yeah right, Ukrainians want Russia to be ejected out of disputed territory, but just don't make me the ones doing it, and please don't make my family or loved ones there. Maybe just provoke NATO to intervene and spend American lives instead ?

Actually, as a long-time watcher of this conflict, this couldn't be more accurate. The biggest mouth of continuing the war on Twitter/X has always been Ukrainians who asked for donations, while they themselves are not in active combat or in America, like this guy here>>

x.com

x.com

They actually think that they are THE REAL DEAL by organizing charity and Russia will be defeated if they collect enough money LMAO. Cowards !!!


If that is not DELUSIONS then I don't know what are you calling it.

This is in stark contrast to the two examples I mentioned, where a party won against all odds. The example being the Vietnamese commie and the Islamists in Afghanistan. Both of them showcase the kind of determination and sheer will that the 'brave and democratic' Ukrainians lacked.

The Vietnamese war cry during the Vietnam war is : SInh tại miền bắc nhưng mặt tại miền nam || Born in the North to DIE in the South

Vo Nguyen Giap, the Viet general once said that he is willing to lose 10 Vietnamese soldier for 1 American.

And all this under intense American bombardment and where the average North Vietnamese lives in terrible conditions, unlike 'poor' Ukrainians who spent time in McDonalds

And then there's the Taliban (and average Islamist tbh), who's so eager to die for their cause, that the Russian veterans against them in Afghanistan and Chechnya themselves quite admit it.

how can you defeat an enemy who looks paradise at the barrel of the gun

Do we have anything close to this from the Ukrainians? Absolutely fucking not, a larper to the core, I saw a lot of Ukrainians screaming 'freedom this freedom that' and the moment it's time to defend their 'freedom', they come up with ?

TADDAAAAAAA

“I love my country,” he said in a phone interview earlier this month. “I donate to the Ukrainian army. But unfortunately, I am not very prepared to fight on the front lines because I don’t have the experience and I am probably not morally prepared to kill somebody, even if it’s someone Russian.” (source)

“I feel like the country I love and cherish is behaving like an immature, offended teenager,” (source)

 

[contricusc]

The problem is almost NOBODY wants Ukraine to join the EU or NATO, all those talks are just because Russia invaded poor little Ukraine.

It won’t join tomorrow or next year. It takes time for a country to do the necessary reforms in order to join the EU. The same things you say about Ukraine right now have been said in the past about other Eastern European countries, yet they managed to change and join the EU.

Ukraine is in the pipeline for EU expansion. Even Belarus, once it gets rid of Lukashenko and turns democratic, will be a potential candidtae in the longer term.

The EU will first need to absorb the former Yugoslav countries that have not joined yet, and then it can move on to Moldova and Ukraine. The process takes time, needs reforms and modernization of societies, but give it a few decades and it happens. At a historical scale, the timeframe is actually very small.

The truth is Ukraine is a corrupt and d*rty country and is unwanted in Europe by the majority of people.

You would have said the same thing about Romania or Bulgaria in 1995, yet they are full members of the EU, soon in Schengen as well.

Ukraine was part of the USSR, so it's the same people as In Russia, yet Russia is the bad horrible mean corrupt guy and Ukraine is a saint right.
People are not st*pid.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were also in the USSR, and they are now in both NATO and the EU. Countries can modernize and change. Former Soviet republics can become democratic, and with time they can reduce corruption to more acceptable levels.

Ukraine is still extremely corrupt and has many things it needs to fix before being able to join the EU, but the war will only accelerate the desire to reform. Former communist countries had a hard time to reform because of the Russian influence and the pro-Russia parts of their societies, but the war in Ukraine will greatly reduce Russian influence and will tilt the balance in favor of pro-Western Ukrainians.

 

[Gary]

Judge by Indonesian Putinist

the -ist in Putinist implies that I'm dedicating my life and calibrating my belief based on the thoughts of Putin.

This is not true at all, I'm #TeamPutin when it comes to the Ukrainian question, but other than that, not so much.

Also, it would be against my belief to identify myself and accept the view of an infidel.

 

[Lordimperator]

the -ist in Putinist implies that I'm dedicating my life and calibrating my belief based on the thoughts of Putin.

This is not true at all, I'm #TeamPutin when it comes to the Ukrainian question, but other than that, not so much.

Also, it would be against my belief to identify myself and accept the view of an infidel.

Keep going on Vatnik.

 

[Gary]

Keep going on Vatnik.

if that's all you can come up with

 

[MaciekRS]

I am also extremely suprized how Europe continues to support Ukraine so strongly considering how many people are against it, all the people I know in my country and outside my country in europe (and I know a lot) are against this support for ukraine, every single one.
Of course they are not supporting the west abandoning ukraine to whatever russia wants to do with it, but instead push for a settled negotiation and try to end the war and so many deaths that it is bringing daily as soon as possible.
Quite suprizing how the voice of the people matters zero, and yet the media pushes out huge propaganda for this, and the leaders just do what they want.

Wow, that makes me mad.
1. Switzerland is not helping, its BLOCKING help to Ukraine

Switzerland to return Leopard 2 tanks to Germany – DW – 11/22/2023

Neutral Switzerland has resisted European pressure to send weapons to Ukraine. Now it's agreed to return 25 Leopard 2 battle tanks to Germany, providingng they don't end up in Ukraine.

www.dw.com

2. I get it that someone could believe that "negotiations to end the war" with russia is possible but after 2014 even pro russian govenrments learned that "peace time and treaty" like Minsk is only giving them time to prepare to bigger war.

Good thing in all of that is that countries like Swiss and Austria are not in NATO.

 

[contricusc]

Good thing in all of that is that countries like Swiss and Austria are not in NATO.

Yes, they are happy to be “neutral” countries, because their neighbors are civilized NATO and EU countries that don’t want to annex their territories.

Finland and Sweden wanted to be neutral countries as well, until they realized they are too close to Russia to afford neutrality. After all, Ukraine was a neutral country too, before Russia invaded.

All those pro-Russian Swiss and Austrians would think differently if Russia was their neighbor. They think that negotiating with Russia is like negotiating with Italy or Germany… They have no clue.

 

[contricusc]

Faces of Ukro new recruits, there's a huge chance that they will die from exhaustion or cardiac arrests from the shell shock.

The Ukrainian nation will vanish, there's no stopping it.

Sending older people to war will actually have zero effect on the future of the Ukrainian nation. Those are people who will not have any more children, and will soon be pensioners, so actually a drag on the resources of the country.

So if you look at it from a cynical perspective (like you always do), it makes sense for Ukraine to send the “soon to be pensioners“ to the front, as they are the most expendable.

If you add the fact that the older population used to vote more for Yanukovych, it is actually a way to get rid of the more pro-Russian elements of the society. Maybe this is why you see those videos of people being dragged from the streets by recruiting officers. Maybe they recruit people from places where they overwhelmingly voted for Yanukovych, in order to preserve the pro-Western part of the population and reduce the numbers of pro-Russians.

You always proposed the idea that Russia should conquer Ukraine and then use its population to fight future wars. Maybe Ukraine is already using this strategy and is using the pro-Russian part of the population to fight off the Russians, while preserving their nationalist and pro-Western population.

 

[Gary]

All those pro-Russian Swiss and Austrians would think differently if Russia was their neighbor. They think that negotiating with Russia is like negotiating with Italy or Germany… They have no clue.

Hey hey, just be like Slovakia okay?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1799424531548848324

 

[Slayer]

A question, if China or some other country would invade your country, what would you do?

They would learn to speak Chinese.

 

[contricusc]

Hey hey, just be like Slovakia okay?

Slovakia doesn’t border Russia and is a NATO member. They sit confortably far from Russia, so they can afford such treacherous attitude.

Austria, Hungary and Slovakia are Putin’s Trojan horses in the EU. They benefit from the safety of being inside the EU and having civilized neighbors that don’t want to occupy them, while cheering for imperialistic Putin. They have no shame.

 

[Gary]

Sending older people to war will actually have zero effect on the future of the Ukrainian nation. Those are people who will not have any more children, and will soon be pensioners, so actually a drag on the resources of the country.

So if you look at it from a cynical perspective (like you always do), it makes sense for Ukraine to send the “soon to be pensioners“ to the front, as they are the most expendable.

If you add the fact that the older population used to vote more for Yanukovych, it is actually a way to get rid of the more pro-Russian elements of the society. Maybe this is why you see those videos of people being dragged from the streets by recruiting officers. Maybe they recruit people from places where they overwhelmingly voted for Yanukovych, in order to preserve the pro-Western part of the population and reduce the numbers of pro-Russians.

You always proposed the idea that Russia should conquer Ukraine and then use its population to fight future wars. Maybe Ukraine is already using this strategy and is using the pro-Russian part of the population to fight off the Russians, while preserving their nationalist and pro-Western population.

Nice propaganda!

The average age of Ukrainian combatants early in the war is actually 33.

This guy Kriegforscher was actually just 24 when the war started

x.com

x.com

Heavy losses from early 2023 onwards meant that this cohort of young adults was fast being wiped out, and after the failed summer counter-offensive, the average age of the Ukrainian combatants is 45 years old. And these 45 years olds, from the look of it are also being wiped out in a fairly rapid manner that many Ukrainian soldiers, from the look of it are now on average 60+ years old.

That left the 27 and below cohort left behind not yet fighting. Once those 60+ years old cohort are also wiped out by Russian fire, teh Zelensky regime, like it or not must pull this cohort into the slaughterhouse of Eastern Ukraine.

When South Vietnam was on the verge of collapse, the Thieu administration lowered conscription age from 22 all the way to 17.

The Zelensky admin will have to resort to this once his 60+ years old cohort is wiped out. And Ukrainians aren't stupid, they've been smuggling their teenage kids out of Ukraine and it is still ongoing as we speak. Like for example this :

In footage of the incident that has circulated online, a mother of a 16-year-old was filmed losing her temper.

“Give us the documents back and go to Ukraine to fight yourself,” she is seen telling a female consulate employee, raising her voice in despair. “I paid for the passport, give me my son’s document or return the money.”

‘Don’t want to fight’: Ukrainians abroad slam plan to deny embassy services

Short on soldiers to fight Russia, Kyiv says it will suspend consular access to military-age men outside Ukraine.

www.aljazeera.com

Soon, Ukraine will be running out of men, and just like that surrender the country.


And then there's your claim that Ukraine is actively recruiting pro-Russian zones to fight Russia. When I read this, what comes to my mind is :

1. Putin is right, Ukrainians are illegal squatters, those lands are Russian that was given to Ukraine
2. The forced mobilizations actually goes all the way to Kyiv and Lviv, showing the dire situation Ukraine is facing r8 now.

So yeah, we will have to wait and see where this is going.