Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[UkroTurk]

I wonder how long it be before the Mirage 2000 is seen in service with the Ukrainian air force.

According to M Macron, pilots will be trained in France. Transfer and training programme starts today. I don't think this programme will suffer the many delays associated with the transfer of used F-16's. 'Political will' is there with M2K in contrast to 'political will not' with F-16.

Macron Announces French Assistance for Ukraine, Including Mirage 2000-5 Fighters

France plans to supply Ukraine with Mirage 2000 fighter jets as part of its military assistance

mil.in.ua

Mirage 2000 is modern and effective, but the F-16 is a priority for us now, - Yevlash



The French Mirage 2000 fighters are quite modern and can effectively carry out combat missions. But American F-16s are now the priority type of aircraft for us, said Major Ilya Yevlash, a representative of the Ukrainian Air Force Command, on air at the telethon.

“Now we are not commenting on the statements of foreign leaders (on the provision of Mirage 2000 to Ukraine - UNIAN), we are waiting for statements from our top political leadership to appear. We are working directly with the forces and means that we have. Now we are counting, of course, on F -16. This is our main aircraft, which should soon arrive in Ukraine. We are, of course, waiting for missiles for it, since this aircraft is now the main one, and will be able to effectively carry out its combat missions. In general, we do not exclude deliveries in the future. other aircraft and systems," he said.

According to him, the Mirage 2000, like all modern aircraft, can effectively carry out assigned combat missions.

“These can be both air and ground strikes. Of course, this aircraft is quite modern. However, the F-16 is now a priority type of aircraft for us,” Yevlash noted.

 

[Spitfire9]

A Mirage 2000 that can be used is more useful to Ukraine than an F-16 that cannot be used.

I don't know about Norway or Belgium but Netherlands said that they would not clear their F-16's for use in Ukraine until they were satisfied with airfield infrastructure. Does the same apply to the level of pilot training etc? What about use of US weapons - will Ukraine have to get permission for every use in/over Russia?

 

[Relic]

USA officially announced the contents of a new $225 million usd package military aid package for Ukraine. The package consists of the following:

- M109 155mm howitzers
- 81mm mortar systems
- M113 armored personnel carriers
- HAWK air defense missiles
- Stinger air defense missiles
- ATACMS / GMLRS (HIMARS)
- 155mm artillery shells
- 105mm artillery shells
- TOW missiles (Bradleys)
- Javelin anti-armor missiles
- AT-4 anti-armor rockets
- Riverine patrol boats
- Small arms ammo and grenades
- Night vision devices
- Demolitions equipment
- Spare parts and ancillary equipment

Biden Administration Announces Additional Security Assistance for Ukraine

DOD announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs.

www.defense.gov

 

[Gary]

I wonder how long it be before the Mirage 2000 is seen in service with the Ukrainian air force.

According to M Macron, pilots will be trained in France. Transfer and training programme starts today. I don't think this programme will suffer the many delays associated with the transfer of used F-16's. 'Political will' is there with M2K in contrast to 'political will not' with F-16.

Macron Announces French Assistance for Ukraine, Including Mirage 2000-5 Fighters

France plans to supply Ukraine with Mirage 2000 fighter jets as part of its military assistance

mil.in.ua

Still going to take a lot of time, if they start today, we're talking up to a year from now to see Ukrainian combat capable M2Ks pilot cadres.

And from the look of it, there is not going to be that many of them + doubts of their mastery of the platform in such a short span of time.

Of course over time they will overcome this, that's why it's imperative for Russia to take this matter seriously and prevent a fully operational capable Ukrainian F-16 and Mirage Squadron by actively hunting the enabler. Killing the pilots whole on the ground is one option

 

[B_A]

I don't know how someone can see Germany in the charge of Europe??
It is basically fifedom of the various entities. If Russia or someone splits Europe, it would be France, nuclear power. Even in that case those 2 sides would be united, they would be compelled. Otherwise, how possibly they would be able to stand up to Anglo-Saxons? Whose main objective for the last 400 years is exactly to prevent this?
Not that I like Anglo-Saxons , but for Muslims of Balkan, Turkey and at least Azerbaijan that scenario would be a nightmare
These are very well known factors.
Obviously I don't like the Jews, but thanks to them USSR was formed, that event insured the existence of at least Turkey, Balkan Muslims and maybe even furtherer. That's how the situation is evaluated. Not some angry phantasies.

If we learn History,didnt the Germans invade us least?
When Anglo-Saxons and Russian attacked us hundreds of years.
After the beginning of the 19th century, the Austrians sstopped fighting with us.

We were ally in WW1.



And about the Jews,I think the communist jews and the capitalist jews(which contorl Anglo-Saxons) are different groups.

Just like Germans,Anglo-Saxons,Russian Tzar were all same Germanic people but different groups.

 

[Soldier30]

The Russian army began using the latest 152-mm Malva howitzers in Ukraine. Technical information about the self-propelled gun 2S43 "Malva" in the link to the video in the comments to the video. It is worth noting that the Malva self-propelled gun plans to replace the gun with a longer-range one. The first footage from the Malva self-propelled gun in Ukraine on the BAZ-6610-027 Voshchina chassis, produced in Bryansk, was shown by correspondents Alexander Kots and Evgeniy Poddubny. We are publishing episodes of footage of the combat operation of the 2S43 Malva self-propelled gun in Ukraine.

 

[Spitfire9]

Still going to take a lot of time, if they start today, we're talking up to a year from now to see Ukrainian combat capable M2Ks pilot cadres.

And from the look of it, there is not going to be that many of them + doubts of their mastery of the platform in such a short span of time.

Of course over time they will overcome this, it's imperative for Russia to take this matter seriously and prevent a fully operational capable Ukrainian F-16 and Mirage Squadron by actively hunting the enabler. Killing the pilots whole on the ground is one option

I would suggest using inexperienced M2K pilots for stand off SCALP strikes into occupied areas and Russia.

The M2K pilots will be trained in France, according to Macron. How does Russia get to them?

 

[Gary]

The situation right now reminds me of Viet Nam 1974-1975.

Unlike the AFU , The ARVN (The military of South Vietnam) was at one point the world's 4th or 5th largest military force with 1.5 million men and $ billions worth of equipment, but the problem that day reminds me of Ukraine today.

- Incompetent president at the helm that forces his troops into questionable conduct (such as no surrender of territory edict)
- decreases in aid that forced troops to ration munitions
- over-reliance on U.S promises
- lack of manpower retention which in turn created opportunities for corruption
- a military designed to copy the Americans without the necessary enabler and resources, turning the way the military operates into a liability

I mean if you look at President Thieu's speech just 2 days before he fled Saigon, it kinda reminds you about how Zelensky talks today (free world blah bla, blame China etc etc)

Will those F-16 and M2K turns the tide ? Very unlikely, mind to tell that as part of the Paris accord the U.S supplied South Viet Nam with generous amounts of fighter jets (mostly F-5s in the hundreds). The VNAF was at one point the largest and most sophisticated air force in Asia with ELINT, SIGINT, AC-130 gunships etc modeled after the USAF. Doesn't matter they still lose.

Russia has done the right thing to destroy Ukrainian power generation infrastructure, which will crumble the Ukrainian economy even more and pushes the Europeans to intervene and tax their own economy in the process. Let's say in the middle of this, a large war in the Middle East erupted all of a sudden and prices of oil and gas skyrocketed. That would be great, because just 2 years before the capitulation of the Republic of Viet Nam to the commies, the Yom Kippur War erupted, which in turn led to this :

1973 oil crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The oil crisis hit the South Vietnamese really hard, forcing them to at some point disband 10 out of 44 of their combat squadron and 21 of its 44 riverine units. Not to mention soldiers at the frontline getting unpaid (which decreases morale even more)/

So if you are #TeamPutin, there's every reason to wake up early, enjoy your food even more, give charity and sleep better knowing that Ukrainians will lose their homeland eventually.

 

[Gary]

I would suggest using inexperienced M2K pilots for stand off SCALP strikes into occupied areas and Russia.

Ah I see, the Ukrainian Air Force has now abandon NATO style warfare and adopt the Russian 'air artillery' doctrine

The M2K pilots will be trained in France, according to Macron. How does Russia get to them?

When they reach Ukraine of course

 

[Spitfire9]

Ah I see, the Ukrainian Air Force has now abandon NATO style warfare and adopt the Russian 'air artillery' doctrine




When they reach Ukraine of course

IMO NATO is too rigid in its thinking to give best advice to Ukraine. Advice along the lines of mimicking how NATO would fight a war... but denied the materiel NATO would employ if it was fighting the war.

Stand off strikes using Storm Shadow/SCALP seems to me an effective use of inexperienced M2K pilots. Nothing to do with following Russian or NATO practices.

Compared to F-16, I suspect that M2K will arrive quickly.

PS It is worth remembering

Russia GDP: $2.5 trillion
US+EU GDP: $60 trillion

I don't think that US and EU would need to tax their economies much for Ukraine's military capability to completely outstrip Russia's military capability.

 

[Gary]

IMO NATO is too rigid in its thinking to give best advice to Ukraine. Advice along the lines of mimicking how NATO would fight a war... but denied the materiel NATO would employ if it was fighting the war.

Bingo ! this is the problem with countries that seek to mimic U.S.-style warfare. Their resources are scarce and their economy can ill afford to pay for the bill.

in 1975, you might be thinking that South Vietnam, a poor Southeast Asian nation leadership could came up with statements like this :

That's because the ARVN was modeled after the US military but without its resources and enablers. The ARVN rangers and marines (the creme de la creme of the ARVN) trained to be an airmobile troop that entered the battlefield with massive firepower were reduced to a mere static infantry unit after the 1973 economic crisis because Saigon realized that they could no longer pay for the aviation fuel.

Ukraine could boast all the Himars, F-16s, and M2Ks they got from the West, but the moment the West pulls the plug (they always did), it's game over for Kiev and all those toys will become a liability for the war effort.

There's a reason why the Taliban and the Vietnamese communist won the war, one of which is they modeled their armies and wrote their playbook according to the budgetary availability.

Stand off strikes using Storm Shadow/SCALP seems to me an effective use of inexperienced M2K pilots. Nothing to do with following Russian or NATO practices.

Compared to F-16, I suspect that M2K will arrive quickly.

Sending M2K merely to deliver cruise missiles is what you would call air artillery, just a mere extension of the army guns designed to deliver explosives.


It's not the delivery that matters, the French could pack and crate their M2Ks to Ukraine right now, but can the Ukrainians operate those ? Do they have enough fliers to operate one? enough mechanics ? enough know hows ?

 

[Gary]

Ahhh the 'high GDP' boys still haven't got it already

What is the GDP of the Taliban ?

 

[Afif]

PS It is worth remembering

Russia GDP: $2.5 trillion (less, actually)
US+EU GDP: $60 trillion (more actually)

Where did you get the numbers?

 

[Spitfire9]

Russia GDP 2022 $2.240 TRILLION

Russia GDP

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Russia was worth 2021.42 billion US dollars in 2023, according to official data from the World Bank. The GDP value of Russia represents 1.92 percent of the world economy. This page provides the latest reported value for - Russia GDP - plus previous releases...

tradingeconomics.com

Where did you get the numbers GDP

Sorry, error in my numbers. Deleted post.

 

[mehmed beg]

I am starting to admire The West and democracy . Democracy is the real strength .
When you are democratically elected then you can have shit on the beach.
Mr Biden, please don't shit the last weapon delivery

 

[Gary]

No electricity means no economic activity. Not to mention winter is coming.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1799107365024989352

I hereby propose Ukrainians to start subscribing to primitive technology YouTube channel. Winter will be harsh eh?

 

[Relic]

The Netherlands announced a significant military aid package for Ukraine today, valued at $432 million usd. The Dutch will use the funds to join the Swedish initiative to produce CV9035 and CV9040 Infantry Fighting Vehicles for Ukraine. The Netherlands will build many of the vehicles that they are financing, in the Netherlands, while others will be built in Sweden.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-invest-production-combat-vehicles-ukraine-2024-06-07/

 

[Gary]

Russian defensive measures against Ukro istishadi drones.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798192782156415044

 

[Gary]

No air conditioning for Ukraines top govt officials as the energy crunch bite.

No Air Conditioning For Ukraine Officials After Power Supply Hit By Russia

Ukraine's government ordered all ministries and regional authorities on Friday to stop using air conditioning and switch off external lighting as Russian bombardments forced long blackouts across the country.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Gary]

Ukraine's Saigon moment is near?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1799009771024158970