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TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

YeşilVatan

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To me, a mini-KAAN would be more fitting for our carrier needs. It needs to be stealthy and able to work with loyal wingmen. I don't believe payload is that much of an issue to be honest. We will have KE to do the heavy lifting. Survivability and being a network node will be the main selling points here. It just needs to carry enough boom-boom for 'self defence' so to speak. Sortie generation would be a more serious concern I think.

But it seems navalized Hürjet will become reality in the future. I just hope it can carry much more than what this iteration of Hürjet can.
 

Yasar_TR

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And come on mate, GE-F414 has something like 20k thrust with afterburners and over 10k without iirc, while we are talking about 10k thrust with afterburners (6k dry) with TF10k.
Pls check again. GE-F414 in Gripen develops 13000lbf dry and 22000lbf wet thrust.

Performance​

In actual use, twin engines developing 10000lbf and totalling 20000lbf, is worth less than a single engine’s 20000lbf. Twin engines weigh more in total.

If upgraded correctly and furnished with the correct munitions, why shouldn’t our Hurjet be as lethal as a Gripen?

Even Gripen's RR engine was more powerful than TF10k is supposed to be.
What RR engine? Gripen was designed around US’s GE-F404 engine manufactured as Volvo RM12.
Of course it was more powerful. It was developing 12000lbf dry and 18100lbf wet thrust.

TAI would have to design that almost from scratch and it would have to go through every phase all over again.
Of course TAI would have to redesign the plane. Do you think they will not redesign Hurkus when navalising it? Airframe will have to undergo extensive upgrading.

Hürjet is not stealthy. At all.
Open sources put TA-50 and similar trainers at the similar RCS rating as F16. Hurjet needs to have a delta wing if it is to take off from short carrier runways without any hitches. Increasing wing area and forming a delta wing will improve lift.
If it is to be carrier operated it has to go through a lot of changes. It can be made stealthier.

We don't have a twin engine jet in hand
If you have a twin engined KAAN then you have a twin engined plane.
Hurjet was also designed to have two engines at the beginning. But a single engined model was chosen.
It is easier to use two small engines on a Hurjet than having to develop a single engine for a KAAN.
OK! The single engined KAAN will have to be smaller; which is worse. That means all parameters of current KAAN will have to be changed.

Your last paragraph is a controversial point. But cost does matter. Indians have been offered 26 navalised Rafale’s for 8 billion dollars. That dwarfs our 4 to 5 billion dollar carrier cost. That most probably takes in to account ammo, training, spares etc.
The trick here is to find the right balance to be effective. Baykar‘s TB2 when first became famous was so small and slow that it was very stealthy. It was cheap and didn’t carry a lot of ammo. But caused mayhem within Russian armour. Cheap annd small isn’t always bad.

We are discussing to find what is best for our Navy and airforce here. We don’t need to agree on every point. Your view point and mine can be very different.
And it is good that they are different. This way we may discover different ideas and find solutions to questions in our minds.
It is up to the Naval and Airforce command and their technical experts to decide which direction to go. But we can use our imagination about solving some of the dilemmas that our Navy and Airforce is faced with within the scope of limited information we have.
 
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I_Love_F16

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I kind of agree with @boredaf here. If we want something that would be carrier capable, wouldn’t it be better to develop something that would pack a punch instead ? Would it be worth all the trouble to navalized the Hurjet knowing that it’s payload capability is limited ?

Or like @Yasar_TR said, redesigning the Hurjet to have a delta wing, and putting two TF-10000 on it. That would result in a nice increase of the payload capability, and maybe it will be sufficient enough for the navy ?
 

uçuyorum

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I kind of agree with @boredaf here. If we want something that would be carrier capable, wouldn’t it be better to develop something that would pack a punch instead ? Would it be worth all the trouble to navalized the Hurjet knowing that it’s payload capability is limited ?

Or like @Yasar_TR said, redesigning the Hurjet to have a delta wing, and putting two TF-10000 on it. That would result in a nice increase of the payload capability, and maybe it will be sufficient enough for the navy ?
Using same F404 hürjet to make naval trainer and LCA and then going for something single engine using a TF35000 towards 2050 makes more sense to me. Using hürjet as a stepping stone. Then that single fighter jet can also be used to replace aging F16s and serve alongside KAAN, as well as being more export friendly.(a bit like reverse of F18)
 

zio

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Hürjet’s role has been well described there is no intention to push it,but it can be finished earlier than kaan,so we use this platform to test avionics,radar,etc.Guys aselsan did not described electronic support/war suite yet,and there is no progress on towed or expendible ew decoys.Özgür project brings to where we are at the moment and hürjet gives further improvement.
 

I_Love_F16

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Using same F404 hürjet to make naval trainer and LCA and then going for something single engine using a TF35000 towards 2050 makes more sense to me. Using hürjet as a stepping stone. Then that single fighter jet can also be used to replace aging F16s and serve alongside KAAN, as well as being more export friendly.(a bit like reverse of F18)

Personally I don’t find the idea of a single engined plane that will be carrier capable good to me. A two engined plane would be more appropriate. If you have only one engine and it breaks in flight you have no chance to land back.
 

Zafer

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Personally I don’t find the idea of a single engined plane that will be carrier capable good to me. A two engined plane would be more appropriate. If you have only one engine and it breaks in flight you have no chance to land back.
If you can make a single engine with enough reliability you can do with one engine, but twin engine also gives more range with just one engine development cost.
 

I_Love_F16

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If you can make a single engine with enough reliability you can do with one engine, but twin engine also gives more range with just one engine development cost.

Yes but it’s not just about the reliability. Failures can and does happen, even with reliable engines. That’s why dual engines are preferable.
 

Miskin

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Personally I don’t find the idea of a single engined plane that will be carrier capable good to me. A two engined plane would be more appropriate. If you have only one engine and it breaks in flight you have no chance to land back.
I think we need carrier capable Hurjet for training in naval aviation regardless of ultimate decision which plane will be deployed on the carrier.
 

OPTIMUS

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It seems that HÜRJET will receive Spain's tender for advanced jet trainer aircraft. "From 2030 onwards, HÜRJET can be Turkey's export champion.

Austria's tender of the same category has HÜRJET not a little chance due to political reasons.

However, if Spain chooses HÜRJET, HÜRJET will take its place in the Argentina, Brazil and Portuguese air forces.

in Bulgarian and Romanian tenders has HÜRJET little chance for aircraft of the same category due to Germany's political and economic influence in these countries.
 
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Sanchez

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Looks like there's a yet to be announced update, Hürjet is no longer shown to be flying in Farnborough next week and will be on static display only.

1721407240959.png


Previous announcement from FIA's twitter.
 

Yasar_TR

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boredaf

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Let's hope we hear the same for f110 for KAAN.
GE and TEI with Turkish Aerospace have agreed to produce, maintain and develop f404 engine at TEI.
That is absolutely great news. I hope production lines are already prepared at TEI and we can start producing them as soon as possible.
 

Yasar_TR

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That is absolutely great news. I hope production lines are already prepared at TEI and we can start producing them as soon as possible.
The last sentence in above news is critical.

quote:
As the efforts are focused on TEI TF6000/10000 turbofans and KAAN fighter jet's indigenous engine being developed by TRMotor, cooperation with GE Aviation will likely lower the potential workload.
unquote.

But more than that it will actually pave the way for the local production of 150+ f110 engines we will need for:
11 x KAAN prototypes
40 x KAAN Block 10 planes
40 x f16 V70 jets recently ordered.

Since we last produced f110s for the 30 f16 planes with ÖNCEL 4 program in 2006, the f110 engine has gone through a number of upgrades and application of newer technologies, such as blisk fans and compressors and probably fourth generation single crystal turbine blades.
The f110 has been upgraded with new increased airflow, jet engine efficiency, a three-stage chord blisk fan, and an advanced radial augmentor to reduce complexity, improve maintainability, and increase the life span of parts.
Physically producing most parts at TEI, will help us with ease of adopting newer technologies.
 

Altay_TR

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Looks like there's a yet to be announced update, Hürjet is no longer shown to be flying in Farnborough next week and will be on static display only.

View attachment 69530

Previous announcement from FIA's twitter.
I asked Mr. İbrahim Sünnetçi about this issue, and he said that he knew the reason, but that it would be right for the company to explain. He also stated that three different countries are interested in the Hürjet and that order negotiations are being held.

t8g1hcr.png
 
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Lool

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Let's hope we hear the same for f110 for KAAN.
GE and TEI with Turkish Aerospace have agreed to produce, maintain and develop f404 engine at TEI.
Does that mean that the F110 engines will be 100% domesticated or will Turkey outsource the important tech and just assemble it locally?
 
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