TR Propulsion Systems

[hugh]

If you have the money, TEI could produce a variable-cycle engine for you if needed. However, the Turkish engine industry simply doesn’t have the capacity to develop multiple high-performance jet engines simultaneously. For example, TEI has stated that they currently lack the resources to develop a local engine for the Hürjet.

And, there is no such thing as 4.5th gen Kaan.

You have misunderstood my post. I do not suggest that we should develop multiple large turbofan engines. My inquiry is the opposite of that. I'm simply asking if it's possible to convert(further develop) an engine like F110 to a 5th gen engine without requiring a clean-sheet design.

As limited as my engine knowledge, I think variable-cycle engine is a few leagues above TEI's current know-how.

how do you designate Block 10 KAAN when the higher-ups at TAI themselves define it as a 4.5th gen plane?

 

[Yasar_TR]

A 5th generation engine needs to be:
1. With high enough dry thrust (22K - 26K lbf) to impart supercruise capability to the plane.
2. Air inlet design to allow radar signals not to bounce back. LP Fan and compressor section to have blade design to be optimised to absorb radar signals.
3. Combustion and nozzle sections will have to be designed to be in line with compressor section, as well as being as cool as possible in general to give a lower IR signature.

The whole 5th generation engine design, at the end of the day, is a compromise and optimised to give high thrust but be cooler and radar sensitive. You can’t produce a 4th generation engine and then gradually turn it in to 5th generation. Each time an engine is produced, it has to go through intensive tests; both on the ground and in the air.

EDIT

F404 and F110(F118) have non afterburner versions that fly f117 and B2 jets. But their inlet, compressors, et al, have all been greatly optimised for stealth operations.

 

[uçuyorum]

Most important features of a 5th gen engine are probably increased fuel efficiency and the overall electricity generation compared to older designs besides the cooling.

 

[hugh]

A 5th generation engine needs to be:
1. With high enough dry thrust (22K - 26K lbf) to impart supercruise capability to the plane.
2. Air inlet design to allow radar signals not to bounce back. LP Fan and compressor section to have blade design to be optimised to absorb radar signals.
3. Combustion and nozzle sections will have to be designed to be in line with compressor section, as well as being as cool as possible in general to give a lower IR signature.

The whole 5th generation engine design, at the end of the day, is a compromise and optimised to give high thrust but be cooler and radar sensitive. You can’t produce a 4th generation engine and then gradually turn it in to 5th generation. Each time an engine is produced, it has to go through intensive tests; both on the ground and in the air.

EDIT

F404 and F110(F118) have non afterburner versions that fly f117 and B2 jets. But their inlet, compressors, et al, have all been greatly optimised for stealth operations.

so the first large turbofan we develop has to be a true 5th gen from the get-go? no viable interim engine as a stopgap?

 

[somegoodusername]

You have misunderstood my post. I do not suggest that we should develop multiple large turbofan engines. My inquiry is the opposite of that. I'm simply asking if it's possible to convert(further develop) an engine like F110 to a 5th gen engine without requiring a clean-sheet design.

F-110 is old tech, TF-35000 is new tech. There is no reason for developing a older tech engine. When you implement the modern tech on a design, you already get the TF-35000. There is no gradual increase to TF-35000, it's like going from 0 to 1.

 

[Yasar_TR]

If you want to look at it from another angle, “principally”, F110, F135, F119 are not that different from each other. Over the years F110 has evolved by using newer technologies and special alloys and materials. If F110 were “old-tech”, US wouldn’t be using it in their B2 stealth bombers, nor would they use it to propel the newest F15EX.
Turbofan Jet propulsion has evolved over the decades.
F135 was developed from f119, which was developed from the F100 engine that powered F15 and F16 aircrafts.

Today the newest F110 engine has parts that use the same technologies you would find on F119 or F135 engines.

When jet aircraft’s start flying with adaptive cycle engines, then we may have the right to call them “advanced-tech”, as they will be more groundbreaking and new as far as gas turbine engines go.

In essence the principle of turbofan jet propulsion is a form of gas turbine jet propulsion.

The real breakthrough in air breathing jet engines will come with ramjets/scramjets and also when used in conjunction with continuously rotating detonation engines (CRDE), which in itself a totally NEW tech altogether.