TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Saithan]

I believe it's easier for us to buy trainer jet engine from US (getting Senate permission) than buying for an armed Hürjet.

So the resistance and argument and counterarguments will be extremely reduced. But I do not believe that is going to be the case when we present to the world our light armed Hürjet.

So by ordering the engine for trainer jet (while no armed version of it exists) we don't give those in the Senate ammunition to refuse us the sale and those who are more pro Türkey can much easier get through with the sale.

What we must avoid is. We must under no circumstance transform a trainer jet to lightarmed combat jet because they'll cut the export and say we don't stick to our promise bla bla bla. hopefully we should have 90+ trainers built before trying to get a deal for armed hürjet.

If they refuse we can transform the trainer jet to combat jet.

 

[hugh]

I believe it's easier for us to buy trainer jet engine from US (getting Senate permission) than buying for an armed Hürjet.

So the resistance and argument and counterarguments will be extremely reduced. But I do not believe that is going to be the case when we present to the world our light armed Hürjet.

So by ordering the engine for trainer jet (while no armed version of it exists) we don't give those in the Senate ammunition to refuse us the sale and those who are more pro Türkey can much easier get through with the sale.

What we must avoid is. We must under no circumstance transform a trainer jet to lightarmed combat jet because they'll cut the export and say we don't stick to our promise bla bla bla. hopefully we should have 90+ trainers built before trying to get a deal for armed hürjet.

If they refuse we can transform the trainer jet to combat jet.

If they don't provide engines for LCA Hürjet, then we'd be in deep trouble as there's no way we could acquire F110s for KAAN.

 

[UkroTurk]

Trump was the who sanctioned F-35 deal however democrats were okay with f-16 viper purchase.

Trump didn't listen national security advisors more than 5 minutes in daily briefings of white house. Since he is mad he could do everything. Unpredictable.

 

[Rooxbar]

Trump was the who sanctioned F-35 deal however democrats were okay with f-16 viper purchase.

Trump didn't listen national security advisors more than 5 minutes in daily briefings of white house. Since he is mad he could do everything. Unpredictable.

Although his appointees are extreme people, that has more to do with the pool of available people from the gop. There are no non-crazy person in the gop wrt issues concerning mid-east and us. The silver lining is Trump is seemingly going for the people among the crazies who are sycophants, so they will probably be more clerical rather than independent although the general political culture there is mostly "israel first" as they say, so it will be very hard for Trump or Vance to go against that even if they want to. I don't think the F110s will be a problem as Israelis and the think tanks close to them haven't really made any fusses about it in the past years, unless their plan is to wait and see if the project succeeds and what the specifications and achievements will be in that regard, and make us depend on the engines in the meanwhile, to be able to sabotage in later stages.

 

[Zoth]

Trump was the who sanctioned F-35 deal however democrats were okay with f-16 viper purchase.

Trump didn't listen national security advisors more than 5 minutes in daily briefings of white house. Since he is mad he could do everything. Unpredictable.

While we indeed got sanctioned during the Trump goverment, let's not forget that Trump chose the one of the less destructive sanction against us, imagine what those sanctions would have been if we got sanctioned during Democrats goverment.

 

[Zoth]

If they don't provide engines for LCA Hürjet, then we'd be in deep trouble as there's no way we could acquire F110s for KAAN.

We won't be in any deep trouble, there are close alternatives to those engines, if they refuse to provide us with what we need, it's their choice. One way another we are going to get something of stop gap either from them or from someone else. This time they won't even have anything in their hand to blackmail us, what they are going to do, they won't sell us F35s? oh wow.

 

[2033]

We won't be in any deep trouble, there are close alternatives to those engines, if they refuse to provide us with what we need, it's their choice. One way another we are going to get something of stop gap either from them or from someone else. This time they won't even have anything in their hand to blackmail us, what they are going to do, they won't sell us F35s? oh wow.

Please stop talking about Chinese engines. Chinese engines arent good at it. Most probably even our engines will be better.

It isnt worth building a new maintenance infrastructure for a temporary solution.

 

[Zoth]

Please stop talking about Chinese engines. Chinese engines arent good at it. Most probably even our engines will be better.

It isnt worth building a new maintenance infrastructure for a temporary solution.

Oh wow, something that won't exist until early 2032s, and on top of that is better than something that is already working and installed in J20, J35 and their big ass cargo engines, makes totally sense.

What is your solution if we can't get f110 or f404. Wait until TF35K enters serial production in 2030s?

 

[2033]

Oh wow, something that won't exist until early 2032s, and op top of that is better than something that is already working and installed in J20, J35 and their big ass cargo engines, makes totally sense.

What is your solution if we can't get f110 or f404. Wait until TF35K enters serial production in 2030s?

No solution. Chinese engines create chaos, not solutions.

If we get along well with the US, we won't have problems. We just need to stay away from stupid and aggressive policies. We can manage for 10 years.

 

[Zoth]

No solution. Chinese engines create chaos, not solutions.

If we get along well with the US, we won't have problems. We just need to stay away from stupid and aggressive policies. We can manage for 10 years.

Getting along with US means bending over for YPG and Israel for their needs, are you okay with that for f110 engine?

What is your source for Chinese engines creating chaos? Are you aware of how good WS Variants of Chinese engines are? especially the WS-15 which is considered a better engine than F22 engine.

None is denying on how good the American engines are in terms of reliability and longevity but something "better" that comes with a lot of headache sometimes is not better.

 

[2033]

Getting along with US means bending over for YPG and Israel for their needs, are you okay with that for f110 engine?

What is your source for Chinese engines creating chaos? Are you aware of how good WS Variants of Chinese engines are? especially the WS-15 which is considered a better engine than F22 engine.

None is denying on how good the American engines are in terms of reliability and longevity but something "better" that comes with a lot of headache sometimes is not better.

We have been fighting the PKK for a long time. The US has always understood this. We have received a lot of weapons from the U.S. If we hadn't bought the S-400, the same situation would have continued.

Even Jf-17s don't have Chinese engines.

 

[Zoth]

We have been fighting the PKK for a long time. The US has always understood this. We have received a lot of weapons from the U.S. If we hadn't bought the S-400, the same situation would have continued.

Even Jf-17s don't have Chinese engines.

If you think that the reason for us being getting sanctioned and getting kicked out of f35 program is due to S-400, you are so wrong. Look when exactly we got sanctioned and since when Israel was lobbying to kick us out of F35 program, it dates back to 2008. S-400 was only an excuse, the real deal comes from operations in Syria, they don't want the Turkish presence in Syria.

 

[2033]

If you think that the reason for us being getting sanctioned and getting kicked out of f35 program is due to S-400, you are so wrong. Look when exactly we got sanctioned and since when Israel was lobbying to kick us out of F35 program, it dates back to 2008.

Yes, those who bought the S-400 served Israel.

 

[Zoth]

Yes, those who bought the S-400 served Israel.

It dosn't matter who served who, the purchase of S-400 were wrong for multiple reasons.
US-Turkey relations will never improve 1 for very simple reason, Lobbying. As long as lobbying is main way to get your needs out of USA, we will never get what we need from them.

 

[I_Love_F16]

@Zoth We can’t go with Chinese engines because our jets were designed around American ones. You build an aircraft around an engine, not the other way around. And do you understand how difficult, laborious and costly it will be to change our maintenance infrastructure (skills of the maintenance staff, spares, tools, …) to accommodate Chinese engines ?

 

[Rooxbar]

Getting along with US means bending over for YPG and Israel for their needs, are you okay with that for f110 engine?

What is your source for Chinese engines creating chaos? Are you aware of how good WS Variants of Chinese engines are? especially the WS-15 which is considered a better engine than F22 engine.

None is denying on how good the American engines are in terms of reliability and longevity but something "better" that comes with a lot of headache sometimes is not better.

We didn't have any inherent problems with Israel. If it wasn't for the quarter-century long rule of an Islamist party and the mass of propaganda that goes with it, which has turned a good portion of our population into having this delusions of grandeur and seeing themselves as saviours of every down-trodden people around the world or something (incl. Palestinians), a different admin could promise a new era and a new outlook regarding Israel (which due to the aforementioned popular zeal will not be politically astute now) and strike a deal with Israelis to get a concession out of them regarding YPG, but that kind of deal you can make if you have a good hand, which I'm not sure we do. Iran, for instance, can make that kind of deal with a change of regime if the new ones are not the current alternatives because they're merely servants (a la Juan Guaido) and will give up all their aces, in the form of Hezbollah and other proxies and influences, without getting anything for it.

 

[Rooxbar]

If you think that the reason for us being getting sanctioned and getting kicked out of f35 program is due to S-400, you are so wrong. Look when exactly we got sanctioned and since when Israel was lobbying to kick us out of F35 program, it dates back to 2008. S-400 was only an excuse, the real deal comes from operations in Syria, they don't want the Turkish presence in Syria.

This myth which "experts" with sticks in their hands on t.v. have propagated for some time, has been debunked several times in these forums.

 

[Zoth]

@Zoth We can’t go with Chinese engines because our jets were designed around American ones. You build an aircraft around an engine, not the other way around. And do you understand how difficult, laborious and costly it will be to change our maintenance infrastructure (skills of the maintenance staff, spares, tools, …) to accommodate Chinese engines ?

I'm well aware of this but the topic is not this, you guys are taking my point out of topic, if that was any problem we wouldn't even consider buying Eurofighters in the first place.

I'm repeating my point again, incase of Americans not giving us engines, what are we going to do? Best case scenario for TF35K entering into serial production is around 2028-2030 which we still don't know yet, are we going to delay all our flights of Kaan until then?

I don't even want to talk about Hurjet, officially we don't even have any plan for domestic engine for it.

Again, i want to point out that i'm also in favor of American engines but if those are going to come to us with "buts" and "ifs" and with multiple headaches, or not at all, what is our alternative?

 

[Zoth]

We didn't have any inherent problems with Israel. If it wasn't for the quarter-century long rule of an Islamist party and the mass of propaganda that goes with it, which has turned a good portion of our population into having this delusions of grandeur and seeing themselves as saviours of every down-trodden people around the world or something (incl. Palestinians), a different admin could promise a new era and a new outlook regarding Israel (which due to the aforementioned popular zeal will not be politically astute now) and strike a deal with Israelis to get a concession out of them regarding YPG, but that kind of deal you can make if you have a good hand, which I'm not sure we do. Iran, for instance, can make that kind of deal with a change of regime if the new ones are not the current alternatives because they're merely servants (a la Juan Guaido) and will give up all their aces, in the form of Hezbollah and other proxies and influences, without getting anything for it.

Again, while you are right about how we came to this situation, it dosn't really matter, we have a reality in front of us that won't change in close future, and we have to act according to it. Even if we change our minds, will Israel back out from supporting YPG after this long?

 

[Zoth]

This myth which "experts" with sticks in their hands on t.v. have propagated for some time, has been debunked several times in these forums.

I don't know, i also thought the same but in a recent video of Kaner Kurt, mr. Özgür Ekşi(founder of TurDef) talked about this issue with a very detailed infrormation, which explains a lot of stuff of what happened in the background. I personally value his views on these topics, if you are interested i'm leaving a timestamped link of where he mentions this issue.