TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Sanchez]

View attachment 72035

While this is a pretty nice infographic, it is very outdated. For one if I remember right, targeting pod on the inner pylons instead of a Meteor never worked, EF-2000 still carries its targeting pod on the center pylon, in place of the centerline tank.

So this is how its loadout actually looks on interdiction/strike role.

 

[Spitfire9]

I think with the upcoming government change in Germany, and with most likely the CDU running the show, they will be lifting most if not all restrictions on weapons exports.

It is a shame for the UK that they did not lift restrictions a year or two ago. The UK assembly line could have done with a Typhoon order to keep the assembly line going.

Production ‘essentially stopped’ for British-built Typhoons

Workers at BAE Systems warn that production has "essentially stopped" at Warton, with no future orders in place. They urge the UK government to order 24 Typhoon jets to secure the UK's sovereign defence capabilities.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Saithan]

I think it would be a mistake to reduce the number of upgrades for F-16, and I think it's better to get those upgrades started immediately. You don't know which way the ball will roll, and in these times it's better to be overspending on Airforce than underspending.

EF is still a new jet and we'll be very new to it, I seriously doubt the old Trance 1 UK has can be used for educational purpose. I believe it's in our best interest to have a full fleet of F-16 that we can rely on until we've had EF in our hands for like 10 years and gotten enough experience with it.

 

[Sanchez]

I think it would be a mistake to reduce the number of upgrades for F-16, and I think it's better to get those upgrades started immediately.

Prevalent thinking is that some very older Block 30s may be retired with just Özgür I, after 2030s, this should be less than 30 jets. With the structural modernization those aircraft received in the last few years, they will be online for about 6-10 more years. Development of Özgür II package is ongoing and prototype should be ready by 2028.

EF is still a new jet

Eurofighter is many things, but it's not new.

I seriously doubt the old Trance 1 UK has can be used for educational purpose

There's no concrete evidence to suggest TurAF is contemplating ex-RAF T1s. We know that it was offered few years ago by UK, and some online pundits, like me, have argued that it could be used for conversion training to get the ball rolling, but it's not expected that it will happen.

have a full fleet of F-16 that we can rely on until we've had EF in our hands for like 10 years and gotten enough experience with it

We already have 230+ F-16s, those aircraft are not going anywhere until 2035+. Even after then, with Vipers and Özgür II, we can safely expect them to stay around at least until late 2040s.

 

[dBSPL]

With the current F-16 fleet of around 230 aircraft, 40 new Vipers and, according to the defense minister, 40 Typhoons, a fleet size of around 310 4.5+ generation jets should indirectly suggest that the TAF will acquire at least around 300 new generation jets in the next 25 years.

 

[dBSPL]

Eurofighter is in the Permission Process in Germany​

In response to questions regarding the latest status of Eurofighter procurement within the scope of Minister Yaşar Güler’s recent statements, Ministry of National Defence sources said, “The sale of the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft to our country has previously been approved by the consortium member countries of the United Kingdom, Spain and Italy. Germany has approved the assignment of a Temporary Sales Authority for the sale of the aircraft. It is assessed that this will accelerate the procurement process. Technical level studies are ongoing for the procurement of the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft, which is assessed to be an alternative to meet the operational needs of our Air Force Command.”

According to ministry sources, the Eurofighter problem will also be discussed at the United Kingdom Defence Minister’s visit to Minister Yaşar Güler today.

What is Temporary Sales Authority​

In Germany, the Temporary Sales Authority (Temporäre Verkaufsbehörde) reports directly to the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Climate Action (Bundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klimaschutz - BMWK). This authority oversees and coordinates the export licencing processes, particularly for military and strategic commodities.

Eurofighter is in the Permission Process in Germany | TURDEF

According to Minister Yaşar Güler’s recent statements, Germany has assigned a Temporary Sales Authority to sell Eurofighter aircraft.

turdef.com

British Secretary of State for Defence Healey Visits TUSAŞ​

British Secretary of State for Defence John Healey, invited by Turkish Counterpart Yaşar Güler, visited TUSAS along with Secretary of SSB Haluk Görgün.

Secretary of Defence Industries Haluk Görgün shared information and snapshots of two ministers’ visits to Turkish aerospace facilities. Görgün wrote that the British Minister signed the condolence book in memory of our TUSAŞ martyrs, and Görgün added, “We talked about TUSAŞ’s achievements in the defence industry. We had the opportunity to show the Minister our National Combat Aircraft KAAN, Jet Training Aircraft HÜRJET, AKSUNGUR, ANKA and ANKA-III on site. We thank the Minister for his visit and condolences.” TUSAŞ General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu accompanied the delegation throughout their visit.

TurDef understands that the visit will be a milestone in the Eurofighter acquisition programme. Defence Minister Güler confirmed two days ago, Turkiye’s interest in acquiring 40 Eurofighters in a TV interview. The acquisition decision has waited for a long time to overcome German resistance, but TurDef understands that the process has not waited for the decision; technical negotiations might have continued. This is why Turkiye might start the process once German approval is received and Turkish Air Force might expect the Eurofighters before F-16s.

British Minister’s visit to TUSAŞ also hints that a hybrid acquisition might be followed. It is known that Turkiye wants the latest version of Eurofighters. On the other hand, the Turkish MoD might evaluate acquiring some fighters second-hand once the urgent need is met with brand new ones. In this way the Eurofighters might be modernised at TUSAŞ facilities while the cost would be lower and it would take less time to complete all fleet.

British Secretary of State for Defence Healey Visits TUSAŞ | TURDEF

British Secretary of State for Defence John Healey, invited by Turkish Counterpart Yaşar Güler, visited TUSAS along with Secretary of SSB Haluk Görgün.

turdef.com

“In this way the Eurofighters might be modernised at TAI facilities while the cost would be lower and it would take less time to complete all fleet.”

This editor claim is one of the possibilities that I keep in the back of my mind and that is why it is one of the main reasons for the EF related posts I wrote in the Aircraft carrier thread.

Just thinking out loud: If the purchase of EF for the air force is finalized, can we become an industrial participant of this aircraft by undertaking the development cost of the STOBAR variant of EF, which has been prepared for several tenders before but has not received an order and therefore has not yet emerged, but the project was ready to start?

(The following excerpt is a worth reading post with concentrated information on the development of Navalize Typhoon in past.)

Naval Eurofighter Typhoon projects

This may well be bollocks and sloppy journalism, though I understand that the Typhoon (N) “is not dead” and that the studies are still being looked at and kept under review. The option of a ‘marinised’ Typhoon has been studied several times, first as the only STOBAR aircraft type to be...

www.secretprojects.co.uk

 

[Afif]

With the current F-16 fleet of around 230 aircraft, 40 new Vipers and, according to the defense minister, 40 Typhoons, a fleet size of around 310 4.5+ generation jets should indirectly suggest that the TAF will acquire at least around 300 new generation jets in the next 25 years.

These new Typhoons and Vipers if procured will fly into 2060.

 

[dBSPL]

These new Typhoons and Vipers if procured will fly into 2060.

Probably. I am aware that I left a 10-year optimism gap. What I wanted to point out, even a one-to-one modernisation of fleets as we move from 4.5 to 5+ will create a huge order blocks. Newly planned Viper and if realized, Typhoon fuselages can see 2060 as you said, which makes a maximum of 40+20 jets. If the country's military capacity, aviation industry and economy will remain at the same point between now and 2060, and If the fleets are replaced one-to-one the total number will drop to around 250 in the next 25-30 years. 10-15 years ago, TAF plan was also +300 by the way (around 250 + around 100 if I am not mistaken) . In the meantime, we were excluded from JSF and focused only on KAAN program.

 

[Afif]

Probably. I am aware that I left a 10-year optimism gap. What I wanted to point out, even a one-to-one modernisation of fleets as we move from 4.5 to 5+ will create a huge order blocks. Newly planned Viper and if realized, Typhoon fuselages can see 2060 as you said, which makes a maximum of 40+20 jets. If the country's military capacity, aviation industry and economy will remain at the same point between now and 2060, and If the fleets are replaced one-to-one the total number will drop to around 250 in the next 25-30 years. 10-15 years ago, TAF plan was also +300 by the way (around 250 + around 100 if I am not mistaken) . In the meantime, we were excluded from JSF and focused only on KAAN program.

IMO, 200+ KAAN and 80 Eurofighter+Viper is enough investment in TurAF (until it moves toward 6th gen platforms in 25 years or so.) As there will be hundreds of loyal wingman alongside these manned platforms. Which I don't think were given enough attention in 2000s and early 2010s. Back then the Concept of 5th gen areal warfare with the MUM-T at the center of it wasn't widely accepted. Even for USAF.

Technically Türkiye can still procure more KAAN. But in the end it is about overall trade-off and balancing between Air, land, Naval and space capabilities. And i think that money is better invested elsewhere with more return potential for strategic effect. Like an SSN program. (Which definitely doesn't get enough attention here among Turkish industry enthusiasts.)

 

[chngr]

We are not post-cold war peace anymore...World became more dangerous countries ramp up military proucements

Bandirma-Balikesir-Eskisehir-Konya-Merzifon-Diyarbakir-Malatya-İncirlik-Dalaman....We have 9 AJÜ, we need 360 manned fighter jet

And i think we should open again Murted

B30's retirement start 2040s and B40-50 follow until 2050s..Maybe 29 B50+ can sea 2060s

 

[Gaucho]

I found this interview, I don't understand Turkish but I guess he was talking about Türkiye's military technology industry. ? I put it here, I leave it to the moderators if they think it appropriate to move it to remove it. Thank you greetings

 

[uçuyorum]

IMO, 200+ KAAN and 80 Eurofighter+Viper is enough investment in TurAF (until it moves toward 6th gen platforms in 25 years or so.) As there will be hundreds of loyal wingman alongside these manned platforms. Which I don't think were given enough attention in 2000s and early 2010s. Back then the Concept of 5th gen areal warfare with the MUM-T at the center of it wasn't widely accepted. Even for USAF.

Technically Türkiye can still procure more KAAN. But in the end it is about overall trade-off and balancing between Air, land, Naval and space capabilities. And i think that money is better invested elsewhere with more return potential for strategic effect. Like an SSN program. (Which definitely doesn't get enough attention here among Turkish industry enthusiasts.)

200 KAAN + 80 EF + Viper is an outrageous investment. You are looking at 100 billion+ for these

 

[IC3M@N FX]

It won't be 80 Eurofighters or 200 TAI KAAN. What money are you going to use to finance that...?

In the end it will be 80-120 TAI KAAN, and 40-60 Eurofighter, then another 50-60 Hürjet Marine version and the own + new F-16 together it would be 300-310 fighter jets.

We would then be close to 450-500 manned combat aircraft, which is enough for Turkey because at least 150-250 different classes of drones will also be added by 2035.
That is more than enough to defend the country and its properties and bases abroad.
The drones can be scaled up even further at low cost by a further +100-150 drones if required.

However, Turkey needs a total of 2 LHDs like the TCG Anadolu and a total of 8-10 destroyers.
The LHD's must operate permanently in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean together with 4 destroyers (2 per LHD) as a deterrent, and 2 real aircraft carriers like MUGEM which is there for foreign and domestic operations.
That is much more important 700-800 manned combat aircraft.

 

[Huelague]

I think with the upcoming government change in Germany, and with most likely the CDU running the show, they will be lifting most if not all restrictions on weapons exports.

No.

 

[Huelague]

It won't be 80 Eurofighters or 200 TAI KAAN. What money are you going to use to finance that...?

In the end it will be 80-120 TAI KAAN, and 40-60 Eurofighter, then another 50-60 Hürjet Marine version and the own + new F-16 together it would be 300-310 fighter jets.

We would then be close to 450-500 manned combat aircraft, which is enough for Turkey because at least 150-250 different classes of drones will also be added by 2035.
That is more than enough to defend the country and its properties and bases abroad.
The drones can be scaled up even further at low cost by a further +100-150 drones if required.

However, Turkey needs a total of 2 LHDs like the TCG Anadolu and a total of 8-10 destroyers.
The LHD's must operate permanently in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean together with 4 destroyers (2 per LHD) as a deterrent, and 2 real aircraft carriers like MUGEM which is there for foreign and domestic operations.
That is much more important 700-800 manned combat aircraft.

We will get 300+ Kaan at least.

 

[Zoth]

I found this interview, I don't understand Turkish but I guess he was talking about Türkiye's military technology industry. ? I put it here, I leave it to the moderators if they think it appropriate to move it to remove it. Thank you greetings

This interview video is mainly about the Chinese industry as the title also states. It talks about the Airshow China (also known as Zhuhai Airshow) and the latest advancements of Chinese Aviation industry or MiC in general.


Highlights
Airshow China 2024: The international aviation and aerospace fair has officially begun.
Since 1996: This event has been held since 1996 and will run through November 17 this year.
China’s Advancements: China has achieved significant progress in the aviation sector.
Russia’s Strong Presence: Russia is a major participant in the event, emphasizing its importance.
New-Generation Fighters: Advanced fighter jets like the J35 and J20 have been introduced.
Stealth Aircraft Focus: The concept of low radar visibility or “stealth aircraft” is prominent.
Drones and Cargo UAVs: Unmanned aerial vehicles and cargo drones captured significant attention.

Key Insights
Progress in Aviation Technology: China’s recent advancements in aviation, showcased with next-gen aircraft, increase global competition in the aviation market.

International Participation: Russia’s strong presence reflects the military cooperation and rivalry between the two nations. Events in the Far East are reaching parity with major Western aviation shows.
Next-Gen Aircraft: The debut of fifth-generation fighters like the J35 and J20 illustrates China’s expanding military air power, with potential to become significant players internationally.
Stealth Technology: Low radar visibility technology gives these “stealth” aircraft a decisive edge by helping them evade enemy radar, offering a vital advantage in modern warfare.
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Cargo UAVs and drones are increasingly integral to new military strategies, and advances in this area could shape the future of warfare technology.
Military Strategy and Alliances: China’s military strategies influence international dynamics, and its relationship with Russia could deepen military collaboration.
Technological Rivalry: With advanced technologies like hypersonic weapons systems, China aims to surpass the U.S., potentially altering global security balances.

 

[TheInsider]

The Turkish Air Force will acquire 240 Kaans between 2028 and 2040. By 2040, the Turkish Air Force's fighter fleet will consist of 40 Eurofighters, 120 F16s, and 240 Kaans.

 

[Gaucho]

This interview video is mainly about the Chinese industry as the title also states. It talks about the Airshow China (also known as Zhuhai Airshow) and the latest advancements of Chinese Aviation industry or MiC in general.


Highlights
Airshow China 2024: The international aviation and aerospace fair has officially begun.
Since 1996: This event has been held since 1996 and will run through November 17 this year.
China’s Advancements: China has achieved significant progress in the aviation sector.
Russia’s Strong Presence: Russia is a major participant in the event, emphasizing its importance.
New-Generation Fighters: Advanced fighter jets like the J35 and J20 have been introduced.
Stealth Aircraft Focus: The concept of low radar visibility or “stealth aircraft” is prominent.
Drones and Cargo UAVs: Unmanned aerial vehicles and cargo drones captured significant attention.

Key Insights
Progress in Aviation Technology: China’s recent advancements in aviation, showcased with next-gen aircraft, increase global competition in the aviation market.

International Participation: Russia’s strong presence reflects the military cooperation and rivalry between the two nations. Events in the Far East are reaching parity with major Western aviation shows.
Next-Gen Aircraft: The debut of fifth-generation fighters like the J35 and J20 illustrates China’s expanding military air power, with potential to become significant players internationally.
Stealth Technology: Low radar visibility technology gives these “stealth” aircraft a decisive edge by helping them evade enemy radar, offering a vital advantage in modern warfare.
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles: Cargo UAVs and drones are increasingly integral to new military strategies, and advances in this area could shape the future of warfare technology.
Military Strategy and Alliances: China’s military strategies influence international dynamics, and its relationship with Russia could deepen military collaboration.
Technological Rivalry: With advanced technologies like hypersonic weapons systems, China aims to surpass the U.S., potentially altering global security balances.

Thanks for your response
I thought about it, and I also thought that he might be talking about the technological developments that Türkiye has today.

 

[Zoth]

Thanks for your response
I thought about it, and I also thought that he might be talking about the technological developments that Türkiye has today.

To learn more about Turkish technological development in general you can head to Turkey sub-category in this forum, there are so many sections that talk about different topics that can help you learn about new stuff.

Turkish Defence Forum

defencehub.live

 

[chngr]

The Turkish Air Force will acquire 240 Kaans between 2028 and 2040. By 2040, the Turkish Air Force's fighter fleet will consist of 40 Eurofighters, 120 F16s, and 240 Kaans.

No

Haven't learn anything...there was no domestic engine yet, we will most likely see fully functional KAAN by 2037-40

Even if we don't count these...You cannot produce 240 aircraft in 10 years and close the line after that

Production and orders have to be spread over years

Look even after 30 years France still order Rafale, Europe still order Eurofighter

Thanks to this, the production lines still remained open, the aircraft remained up to date with developments...And they can still exports after 30 years

HvKK's KAAN orders should spread over at least 30 years...2030-2060