While we indeed got sanctioned during the Trump goverment, let's not forget that Trump chose the one of the less destructive sanction against us, imagine what those sanctions would have been if we got sanctioned during Democrats goverment.
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We won't be in any deep trouble, there are close alternatives to those engines, if they refuse to provide us with what we need, it's their choice. One way another we are going to get something of stop gap either from them or from someone else. This time they won't even have anything in their hand to blackmail us, what they are going to do, they won't sell us F35s? oh wow.
Please stop talking about Chinese engines. Chinese engines arent good at it. Most probably even our engines will be better.
It isnt worth building a new maintenance infrastructure for a temporary solution.
Oh wow, something that won't exist until early 2032s, and on top of that is better than something that is already working and installed in J20, J35 and their big ass cargo engines, makes totally sense.
What is your solution if we can't get f110 or f404. Wait until TF35K enters serial production in 2030s?
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No solution. Chinese engines create chaos, not solutions.
If we get along well with the US, we won't have problems. We just need to stay away from stupid and aggressive policies. We can manage for 10 years.
Getting along with US means bending over for YPG and Israel for their needs, are you okay with that for f110 engine?
What is your source for Chinese engines creating chaos? Are you aware of how good WS Variants of Chinese engines are? especially the WS-15 which is considered a better engine than F22 engine.
None is denying on how good the American engines are in terms of reliability and longevity but something "better" that comes with a lot of headache sometimes is not better.
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We have been fighting the PKK for a long time. The US has always understood this. We have received a lot of weapons from the U.S. If we hadn't bought the S-400, the same situation would have continued.
Even Jf-17s don't have Chinese engines.
If you think that the reason for us being getting sanctioned and getting kicked out of f35 program is due to S-400, you are so wrong. Look when exactly we got sanctioned and since when Israel was lobbying to kick us out of F35 program, it dates back to 2008. S-400 was only an excuse, the real deal comes from operations in Syria, they don't want the Turkish presence in Syria.
Yes, those who bought the S-400 served Israel.
It dosn't matter who served who, the purchase of S-400 were wrong for multiple reasons.
US-Turkey relations will never improve 1 for very simple reason, Lobbying. As long as lobbying is main way to get your needs out of USA, we will never get what we need from them.
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@Zoth We can’t go with Chinese engines because our jets were designed around American ones. You build an aircraft around an engine, not the other way around. And do you understand how difficult, laborious and costly it will be to change our maintenance infrastructure (skills of the maintenance staff, spares, tools, …) to accommodate Chinese engines ?
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We didn't have any inherent problems with Israel. If it wasn't for the quarter-century long rule of an Islamist party and the mass of propaganda that goes with it, which has turned a good portion of our population into having this delusions of grandeur and seeing themselves as saviours of every down-trodden people around the world or something (incl. Palestinians), a different admin could promise a new era and a new outlook regarding Israel (which due to the aforementioned popular zeal will not be politically astute now) and strike a deal with Israelis to get a concession out of them regarding YPG, but that kind of deal you can make if you have a good hand, which I'm not sure we do. Iran, for instance, can make that kind of deal with a change of regime if the new ones are not the current alternatives because they're merely servants (a la Juan Guaido) and will give up all their aces, in the form of Hezbollah and other proxies and influences, without getting anything for it.
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This myth which "experts" with sticks in their hands on t.v. have propagated for some time, has been debunked several times in these forums.
I'm well aware of this but the topic is not this, you guys are taking my point out of topic, if that was any problem we wouldn't even consider buying Eurofighters in the first place.
I'm repeating my point again, incase of Americans not giving us engines, what are we going to do? Best case scenario for TF35K entering into serial production is around 2028-2030 which we still don't know yet, are we going to delay all our flights of Kaan until then?
I don't even want to talk about Hurjet, officially we don't even have any plan for domestic engine for it.
Again, i want to point out that i'm also in favor of American engines but if those are going to come to us with "buts" and "ifs" and with multiple headaches, or not at all, what is our alternative?
Again, while you are right about how we came to this situation, it dosn't really matter, we have a reality in front of us that won't change in close future, and we have to act according to it. Even if we change our minds, will Israel back out from supporting YPG after this long?
I don't know, i also thought the same but in a recent video of Kaner Kurt, mr. Özgür Ekşi(founder of TurDef) talked about this issue with a very detailed infrormation, which explains a lot of stuff of what happened in the background. I personally value his views on these topics, if you are interested i'm leaving a timestamped link of where he mentions this issue.
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I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.
İşte ilk F-35in ilk pilotları - CNN Türk Haberler Son Dakika
Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Türkiyenin aldığı 5. Nesil Savaş Uçağı F-35leri kullanacak 13 pilot ve 325 bakım personeli eğitim için ABDnin Arizon...
www.cnnturk.com
Türk savaş pilotundan F-35 ile ABD'de ilk uçuş
Türk savaş pilotu, F-35 uçağı ile ABD'deki ilk uçuşunu gerçekleştirdi.
www.trthaber.com
Well as i said before too S-400 has became the excuse to kick us out, i'm not denying that it was our mistake to do such thing, all i'm trying to say is that if the only problem were S-400, we could've already solved it by now.I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.
İşte ilk F-35in ilk pilotları - CNN Türk Haberler Son Dakika
Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Türkiyenin aldığı 5. Nesil Savaş Uçağı F-35leri kullanacak 13 pilot ve 325 bakım personeli eğitim için ABDnin Arizon...
Türk savaş pilotundan F-35 ile ABD'de ilk uçuş
Türk savaş pilotu, F-35 uçağı ile ABD'deki ilk uçuşunu gerçekleştirdi.
He mentions something very important too, "despite the lobbies pressure, the American MIC didin't want to remove Turkey from the program" which is kind of true. Despite all the issues, GE and LM still wants to do business with us.
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Does the EF with TAF roundel look great on you too, or is it purely psychological?
(Şu anlaşmayı sağ salim tamamlasak da biraz rahatlasak)
Khagan1923
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I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.
İşte ilk F-35in ilk pilotları - CNN Türk Haberler Son Dakika
Son Dakika Türkiye Gündem Haberleri - Türkiyenin aldığı 5. Nesil Savaş Uçağı F-35leri kullanacak 13 pilot ve 325 bakım personeli eğitim için ABDnin Arizon...
Türk savaş pilotundan F-35 ile ABD'de ilk uçuş
Türk savaş pilotu, F-35 uçağı ile ABD'deki ilk uçuşunu gerçekleştirdi.
In the same video he also gets pushback from Kozan Erkan and then he goes on to say that he "knows" because an US Military official or bureaucrat told him. Yeah no. The whole reason we never got our F-35s were because of the purchase of S-400. I don't like how people are trying to disort the past to fit their narratives.
The US has repeatedly stated that if Türkiye gets rid of the S-400 it will be welcomed back to the F-35 program. If they had no interest in Türkiye having those planes they would say under no circumstances will it happen. Not like the S-400 is being used or is even useful to us. It is rotting away in an warehouse on an Air Force base.
Pretty sure our pilots and maintance personnel were in the US right up until the S-400 touched Turkish soil.
Also funnily enough he states towards the end if Türkiye can they should get at least 20 F-35s because they will be an immense boon to the Air Force in getting used to how to operate an 5th gen fighter and plan your operations around it.
Let's see how things evolve under Trump but I still expect our Air Force to return to the F-35 program of course depending on how things go with the new administration.
