TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Ripley]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1911837556020310316

“Terrorist leader Öcalan was given "honorary citizenship" and the decision was presented to Öcalan's nephew Ömer Öcalan in a ceremony in Bologna, Italy “

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1911890694823907824

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1911837556020310316

“Terrorist leader Öcalan was given "honorary citizenship" and the decision was presented to Öcalan's nephew Ömer Öcalan in a ceremony in Bologna, Italy “

i always thought the relationship between the erdogan clan and italy was suspicious.

 

[Anastasius]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1911890694823907824

Ignorance is right. We are too passive. A good leader will work wonders with the Turkic people but we lack initiative.

 

[contricusc]

Ohhhhh, ok, go on tell us why it was ridiculous?

The terms of the Annan plan had the security of the state guaranteed by both Turkey and Greece and had provisions for equality of Turkish and Greek Cypriots under law.

So no, it was not a “ridiculous” plan but a good one and the fact that Greek Cypriots haven’t proposed any reunification plans of their own speaks volumes how little they consider the wellbeing of TCs.

The Annan plan included the following:

• A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
• A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.

So despite the Greek Cypriot population being much more numerous, the Senate and the Supeme Court would have been divided equally between the two communities. This is just one example of bias against Greek Cypriots in the Annan Plan, and thee are many more.

It is no wonder that they voted against it, while Turkish Cypriots voted in favor. The plan was clearly one sided in favor of the Turkish community. Everyone knew this, but the EU, UK and the US wanted to pressue Cyprus in accepting a flawed plan just to get rid of the problem and appease Turkey.

A reunification should be made without quotas based on ethnicity, and with equal rights for all citizens. Otherwise, it will be just another failed state like Lebanon.

 

[contricusc]

Even today greeks on the island plan on killing Turks, in what kinda fantasy land do you live in? Reunite my ass, even the biased ANNA plan was rejected by the other side because they are not interested in "reuniting" they are interested in butchering Turks who have been longer on that island than they themselves, all those greek implant who have been shipped there after WW1 think they are the rightful owners meanwhile Cyprus never belonged to the greeks.

It is you who lives in fantasy land if you think that today’s Greek Cypriots plan on killing Turks. Things have changed dramatically in the world in the last 50 years. Go visit the Republic of Cyprus and you will see a very peaceful and safe place. It is actually one of the safest countries I have ever visited.

And of course they rejected the biased Annan Plan, because it was heavily biased against Greek Cypriots.

Give them a reunification plan where all citizens are equal, and they will gladly accept it. But Turkey is not willing to accept a reunification that doesn’t give privileged status to Turkish Cypriots.

 

[contricusc]

Cyprus is practically a permanent aircraft carrier. If you control it, the east med is yours. It would be stupid to just give up the north. The UK still holds bases there for a reason.

From a military perspective, yes, it serves as a strategic base in the East Mediterranean. But is it worth the diplomatic and economic price?

As long as the Cyprus issue remains, the relationship between Turkey and the EU has limited upside. Turkey could achieve a lot more on the diplomatic and economic front if it would give up on the TRNC and allow Cyprus to reunite under equal terms that would be supported by the Republic of Cyprus as well.

My point is, the value of the “unsinkable aircraft carrier” is lower than the opportunity cost.

Is it really worth it to have antagonistic relations with the EU just for the sake of keeping Cyprus divided? And the TRNC will never be able to properly develop to its full potential as long as it remains a pariah unrecognized state, so you are harming the Turkish Cypriot population as well.

People need to move on and understand the world has changed since 50 years ago. Nobody wants to genocide Tuirkish Cypriots anymore. They could be EU citizens with all the rights derived from that if they would unify with the Republic of Cyprus. There is no genocide happening inside the EU.

 

[Costin1984]

Can we provide 500 billion worth of military and economic assistance if Russia invades say Kazakhstan? Only EU, China and the US can provide an assistance like that and right now, central asian states have none of them on their side. The only thing we can do is send some weapons and delay the invasion. Turkiye has no capacity to sustain a nation like Kazakhstan in a long, multiple-year war.

BTW GDP of Kazakhstan is 45 billion $. (2025 estimate)

Kazahstan's GDP (nominal) is around 300 billion dollars, not 45...

 

[Anastasius]

The Annan plan included the following:

• A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
• A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.

So despite the Greek Cypriot population being much more numerous, the Senate and the Supeme Court would have been divided equally between the two communities. This is just one example of bias against Greek Cypriots in the Annan Plan, and thee are many more.

It is no wonder that they voted against it, while Turkish Cypriots voted in favor. The plan was clearly one sided in favor of the Turkish community. Everyone knew this, but the EU, UK and the US wanted to pressue Cyprus in accepting a flawed plan just to get rid of the problem and appease Turkey.

A reunification should be made without quotas based on ethnicity, and with equal rights for all citizens. Otherwise, it will be just another failed state like Lebanon.

Yeah and you know why they proposed a 50/50 plan? Because otherwise the Turkish Cypriot voices would be basically nonexistent and the Greek Cypriots would absolutely squeeze them out of everything they could (a reminder that as recently as a few years ago Greek Cypriot military members were singing about ridding Cyprus of Turkish presence). And a quick reminder that the second Cyprus operation by Turkey occurred because Turkish Cypriots were STILL being murdered after the junta was deposed and a new civilian government was installed - a government which promised to look after and guarantee safety to Turkish Cypriots and then proceeded to do fuck all when 3 major massacres were committed against Turkish Cypriots in the span of two months after the first operation.

There's no actually moral way to pretend that rejecting the Annan Plan on the basis that it was "too equal" makes the Greek Cypriots look like anything other than psychos that were salivating at the chance to abuse the fuck out of the Turkish Cypriot minority the moment they has the power to do so. It's basically just another example of the EU mentality of "please everybody just get along and stop shaking the boat too hard". Well, maybe the boat needs to be shaken.

If Greeks were serious about reconciliation perhaps they would be better served proposing a solution of their own and at least pretend like they care about addressing the fears held by Turkish Cypriots rather than Turks doing all the legwork in that regard while Greeks just whinge how every single proposal is supposedly unfair.

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1911837556020310316

“Terrorist leader Öcalan was given "honorary citizenship" and the decision was presented to Öcalan's nephew Ömer Öcalan in a ceremony in Bologna, Italy “

This is not surprising at all.

Then they expect Turkiye to come to Europe's defence.

 

[RMZN]

The Annan plan included the following:

• A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
• A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.

So despite the Greek Cypriot population being much more numerous, the Senate and the Supeme Court would have been divided equally between the two communities. This is just one example of bias against Greek Cypriots in the Annan Plan, and thee are many more.

It is no wonder that they voted against it, while Turkish Cypriots voted in favor. The plan was clearly one sided in favor of the Turkish community. Everyone knew this, but the EU, UK and the US wanted to pressue Cyprus in accepting a flawed plan just to get rid of the problem and appease Turkey.

A reunification should be made without quotas based on ethnicity, and with equal rights for all citizens. Otherwise, it will be just another failed state like Lebanon.

a bias against the Majority which attempted a literal ethnic cleansing campaign against the minority? lol

 

[RMZN]

From a military perspective, yes, it serves as a strategic base in the East Mediterranean. But is it worth the diplomatic and economic price?

As long as the Cyprus issue remains, the relationship between Turkey and the EU has limited upside. Turkey could achieve a lot more on the diplomatic and economic front if it would give up on the TRNC and allow Cyprus to reunite under equal terms that would be supported by the Republic of Cyprus as well.

My point is, the value of the “unsinkable aircraft carrier” is lower than the opportunity cost.

Is it really worth it to have antagonistic relations with the EU just for the sake of keeping Cyprus divided? And the TRNC will never be able to properly develop to its full potential as long as it remains a pariah unrecognized state, so you are harming the Turkish Cypriot population as well.

People need to move on and understand the world has changed since 50 years ago. Nobody wants to genocide Tuirkish Cypriots anymore. They could be EU citizens with all the rights derived from that if they would unify with the Republic of Cyprus. There is no genocide happening inside the EU.

>"Turkey could achieve a lot more if it simply sold out its national security for the benefit of other foreign nations."


"Is it really worth it to have antagonistic relations with the EU?" - According to EU law, Cyprus could not have joined the Union if it weren't for Greek blackmail and their threat to block any further EU expansion until Cyprus was granted membership. It was not Turkey that chose to harm its relations with the EU, it was the other way around.


"Nobody wants to genocide Turkish Cypriots anymore." - Yeah, just like how the West is a beacon of human rights and democracy. Well, unless you belong to a group such as the Palestinians. Then it's open season to slaughter as many of your people as possible, either with direct support or inaction by the EU. The greeks don't hide their intentions and the actions of the EU speak for themselves.

 

[contricusc]

There's no actually moral way to pretend that rejecting the Annan Plan on the basis that it was "too equal" makes the Greek Cypriots look like anything other than psychos that were salivating at the chance to abuse the fuck out of the Turkish Cypriot minority the moment they has the power to do so.

There are countless of reasons why the Annan plan was rejected, since it was skewed greatly against the rights of Greek Cypriots.

Here is a list of reasons why they rejected the plan:

Annan Plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As you can see, it’s not just the Senate or the Supreme Court, but countless of other regulations that favored Turkish Cypriots while giving second citizen status to Greek Cypriots, as they would have lacked the same rights.

You cannot possible expect something like that to be approved by a democratic vote.

While I understand that the past was filled with atrocious events, people need to move on because the people who participated in those events are mostly dead, or extremely old. The younger generations have been raised in a different society and mindset, and they are not the murderous monsters you think they are.

Cyprus is a pretty wealthy country, well educated and with lots of opportunities. There is no appetite for war and for savagery in such a country. Things are not like 50 years ago.

 

[RMZN]

While I understand that the past was filled with atrocious events, people need to move on because the people who participated in those events are mostly dead, or extremely old. The younger generations have been raised in a different society and mindset, and they are not the murderous monsters you think they are.

Yeah totally

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1906810693480804724

There is an active genocide ongoing just across the sea from Cyprus. Right wing nationalism is on the rise across the West, especially among younger generations.

 

[contricusc]

a bias against the Majority which attempted a literal ethnic cleansing campaign against the minority? lol

A bias is still a bias, and the majority of the Greek Cypriots of today were not even born during the time of the attempted genocide. You can’t discriminate against the current population based on something that happened 50 years ago.

"Nobody wants to genocide Turkish Cypriots anymore." - Yeah, just like how the West is a beacon of human rights and democracy. Well, unless you belong to a group such as the Palestinians. Then it's open season to slaughter as many of your people as possible, either with direct support or inaction by the EU. The greeks don't hide their intentions and the actions of the EU speak for themselves.

The EU is actually one of the few entities that also speaks against the slaughter of Palestinians. Also, Israel and Palestine are not part of the EU, so the aggressor and the victim are not in the EU.

If Cyprus were to reunite, both Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be EU members and citizens, so they would not be allowed to commit genocide or to be the victims of it. There is no genocide happening inside the EU.

 

[RMZN]

The EU is actually one of the few entities that also speaks against the slaughter of Palestinians. Also, Israel and Palestine are not part of the EU, so the aggressor and the victim are not in the EU.

If Cyprus were to reunite, both Greek and Turkish Cypriots would be EU members and citizens, so they would not be allowed to commit genocide or to be the victims of it. There is no genocide happening inside the EU.

The EU is the biggest enabler of Israel right behind the US lmfao.

"If Palestinians would just accept Israel taking over all of Palestine then there wouldn't be any genocide or war happening because Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and totally respects human rights"

The mere presence of a Turkish minority is seen as a threat by Greeks and just like in the past they will seek to cleanse them from the island. Gaza is a prime example of how the west does not care about genocides being perpetrated by their allies, even if it is livestreamed on the internet. Their supposed "support" means nothing, as their actions do not support their spoken words.

 

[contricusc]

The EU is the biggest enabler of Israel right behind the US lmfao.

Netanyahu is wanted by the Hague ICC. You can’t compare Israel with the EU. No country in the EU is doing anything resembling what Israel is doing right now.

If Cyprus would get reunited, there wouldn’t be any genocide happening. It would just see a great influx of investment, and the Northern part will also become more developed.

Look at the real estate price diffrence between the Southern and the Northern part of Cyprus. It is easy to see which side is the big victim of the current separation, and it is not the Greek side. The Turkish side would have much more to win from reunification than the Greek side. It would be the same situation like West-East Germany reunification.

The status quo is a lose-lose equation for both Turkish Cypriots and Turkey. The Turkish Cypriots are not allowed to reach their economic potential by being kept under a very bad legal situation, while Turkey is unable to improve its relations with the EU because of its continous invasion of Northern Cyprus.

Any sensible Turkish leader would recognize the fact that it is in his country’s own interest to give up on the TRNC project and mend relations with Cyprus, Greece and the EU.

 

[RMZN]

Netanyahu is wanted by the Hague ICC. You can’t compare Israel with the EU. No country in the EU is doing anything resembling what Israel is doing right now.

If Cyprus would get reunited, there wouldn’t be any genocide happening. It would just see a great influx of investment, and the Northern part will also become more developed.

Look at the real estate price diffrence between the Southern and the Northern part of Cyprus. It is easy to see which side is the big victim of the current separation, and it is not the Greek side. The Turkish side would have much more to win from reunification than the Greek side. It would be the same situation like West-East Germany reunification.

The status quo is a lose-lose equation for both Turkish Cypriots and Turkey. The Turkish Cypriots are not allowed to reach their economic potential by being kept under a very bad legal situation, while Turkey is unable to improve its relations with the EU because of its continous invasion of Northern Cyprus.

Any sensible Turkish leader would recognize the fact that it is in his country’s own interest to give up on the TRNC project and mend relations with Cyprus, Greece and the EU.

Yet the German government is talking about inviting Netanyahu without having to arrest him. His warrant also doesn't stop the flow of military good to Israel.

Yeah North Cyprus is being punished for not letting themselves get slaughtered by the greeks and the EU couldn't give less of a shit about it, otherwise they would have objected their EU application as it violated EU laws.

Why should Turkey "mend" relations with actors actively hostile towards Turkey at the cost of its national security? The EU is as much of a hostile actor towards Turkey as Russia, Israel or Iran. Its not some benign actor.

 

[Barry]

Dude just parrots the usual propaganda. Look at who you argue with. He's been educated on these points before, and still chooses to steal the truth of history to make the lies the only relevant information left.

 

[contricusc]

Why should Turkey "mend" relations with actors actively hostile towards Turkey at the cost of its national security? The EU is as much of a hostile actor towards Turkey as Russia, Israel or Iran. Its not some benign actor.

If you want the EU to not be hostile, you need to mend relations with them. It’s not such a difficult concept to gasp.

As long as Turkey has military in Northern Cyprus, it basically occupies land of a EU country. This is detrimental to Turkey‘s national security, because it keeps the door open for a potential future conflict.

It doesn’t really matter who is right and who is wrong in Cyprus. Both sides think they are right and that the opposing side is wrong. What I am trying to explain here is that the status quo is not beneficial to Turkey, because it blocks potential improvements in relations with the EU, and it leaves the door open for a potential future conflict.

What do you hope to achieve by keeping a military presence in Cyprus? How does this benefit Turkey in the long term?

The current situation benefits Russia and the US, because it keeps an old wound open between Turkey and Europe, and the two cannot mend their relations because of that.

Do you think it is beneficial for Turkey to be in an adversarial position towards the EU?

Recent developments in Ukraine and the US are pushing Europe towards rearming and deeper integration. Do you want to miss this opportunity to integrate with Europe because of Northern Cyprus?

Also, keep in mind that once Europe gears up its MIC, it will be unwilling to gear it down once the Eastern flank is secured and Ukraine liberated. You will than have a hugely powerful and influential European MIC that will be hungry for new conflicts in order to justify its new increased size. Once Europe resolves its current security problems, it will start being much more assertive in the Mediterranean, and if Turkey will still be at odds with Cyprus, it may end up being the unfortunate adversary of an emboldened and more aggressive Europe.

Europe is looking to become more independent and powerful, because of Putin’s and Trump’s big mistakes of shaking the status quo. It would be wise for Turkey to join Europe now, while it has a strong hand (Turkey would be very helpful against Russia considering its size and strength), rather than stay on the sidelines while Europe rearms and rediscovers its strength.

Most Europeans would prefer to have Turkey as an ally, but the Cyprus issue is a big thorn in relations, and it is up to Turkey to offer concessions in order to fix it.

In the long term, Turkey needs good relations with Europe much more than Europe needs good relations with Turkey. Ignoring this fact is a very big geopolitical mistake.