Turkey's First China-Bound Freight Train Enters China's Northwest Port

[Xenon54]

 

[Zafer]

A second train is being prepared and it will carry refrigerators of BSH company just like the first train did.

İkinci Çin treni yola çıkıyor

İlk Çin ihracat treni dün Xian’a varış yaparken, ikincisi yarın Köseköy’den yola çıkıyor.

tr.railturkey.org

 

[Huelague]

Good for China.

 

[ekemenirtu]

A second train is being prepared and it will carry refrigerators of BSH company just like the first train did.

İkinci Çin treni yola çıkıyor

İlk Çin ihracat treni dün Xian’a varış yaparken, ikincisi yarın Köseköy’den yola çıkıyor.

tr.railturkey.org

Turkish industry needs to move up the value chain.

An excellent location, fertile land, abundant water, beautiful scenery, a youthful population, a cherished history at the cross roads of Europe and Middle East, Asia and Africa, a medium sized population but a relatively big population by regional standards, close ties to the West nurtured over decades all combine to make Turkey a very attractive location for local and foreign companies interested in exploring both the Turkish and the wider regional market.

Upskilling of the work force and further emphasis on basic and application oriented scientific research and technological development may be explored for this purpose.

As a concrete example, there should be no reason that smaller and more expensive (in terms of labour and land) countries such as Korea or Taiwan should be able to operate commercially lucrative wafer fabrication plants while Turkey does not.

Labour costs in Turkey are lower. The cost of land should also be lower. The population size is greater than either Korea or Taiwan. Its ideal location means Turkey should have captured a good chunk of this market by now. I am not sure why it has not done so yet.

Biotechnology and aerospace industries are also worth exploring. Marine and offshore engineering, transport engineering, advanced specialty chemicals, materials science, AI, IoT, mineral exploration and excavation technologies (for local, regional and global markets), space technologies, nuclear technologies, robotics, clean energy are some areas that immediately come to mind.

Are there industrial robot developers in Turkey? Automation can help Turkey boost its production and the productivity of the workforce by a significant percentage.

 

[Zafer]

Turkish industry needs to move up the value chain.

An excellent location, fertile land, abundant water, beautiful scenery, a youthful population, a cherished history at the cross roads of Europe and Middle East, Asia and Africa, a medium sized population but a relatively big population by regional standards, close ties to the West nurtured over decades all combine to make Turkey a very attractive location for local and foreign companies interested in exploring both the Turkish and the wider regional market.

Upskilling of the work force and further emphasis on basic and application oriented scientific research and technological development may be explored for this purpose.

As a concrete example, there should be no reason that smaller and more expensive (in terms of labour and land) countries such as Korea or Taiwan should be able to operate commercially lucrative wafer fabrication plants while Turkey does not.

Labour costs in Turkey are lower. The cost of land should also be lower. The population size is greater than either Korea or Taiwan. Its ideal location means Turkey should have captured a good chunk of this market by now. I am not sure why it has not done so yet.

Biotechnology and aerospace industries are also worth exploring. Marine and offshore engineering, transport engineering, advanced specialty chemicals, materials science, AI, IoT, mineral exploration and excavation technologies (for local, regional and global markets), space technologies, nuclear technologies, robotics, clean energy are some areas that immediately come to mind.

Are there industrial robot developers in Turkey? Automation can help Turkey boost its production and the productivity of the workforce by a significant percentage.

Turkey is on the verge of skipping the middle income trap and being highly self sufficient in technologies. The decade we are entering will hopefully be the decade we pull it off.

 

[Saithan]

Turkey is on the verge of skipping the middle income trap and being highly self sufficient in technologies. The decade we are entering will hopefully be the decade we pull it off.

if we fail to skip, then we'll fall down to bottom income level.

Do everyone need a BSc or MA. I think a well balanced society would be perfect.

I think Turkish government needs to tell schools to do some guidance counselling for students of future prospects, and the state / union / professions need to uncover the fields that need more professionals.

Here's a magazine that we had laying in our office. I just want to raise the flag for automation and process professions. You don't need to be an engineer to work in these fields.

(if you guys want I can do a short video skimming through the pages, perhaps there is something of interest )

(2nd pic is half conducters for windmills).

I think it's great that transport time of some gods are reduced to 12 days. This makes some things very competitive.

I just hope Turkish government makes sure to keep China away from fielding their own slave-workers, so all work goes to Turkish citizens.

 

[Saithan]

Turkey plans new trips as 1st export train completes landmark trip to China

In a major milestone, the first train carrying goods from Turkey to China reached its destination Saturday, Turkey's transport and infrastructure...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Huelague]

Our trade deficit with China will increase. Currently $ 2 billion export and $ 20 billion import.

 

[ekemenirtu]

Turkey is on the verge of skipping the middle income trap and being highly self sufficient in technologies. The decade we are entering will hopefully be the decade we pull it off.

What is the basis of your prediction?

 

[Zafer]

What is the basis of your prediction?

There is a campaign towards indigenisation which will in turn allow domestic production of many different industrial products like turbo-machinery, microelectronics, aviation and space, defense industry products and higher value products in general. It is not related to China, it is a trend for the sake of enriching the national production.

 

[Saithan]

Our trade deficit with China will increase. Currently $ 2 billion export and $ 20 billion import.

We don’t know if government has taken precaution towards this though.

 

[ekemenirtu]

There is a campaign towards indigenisation which will in turn allow domestic production of many different industrial products like turbo-machinery, microelectronics, aviation and space, defense industry products and higher value products in general. It is not related to China, it is a trend for the sake of enriching the national production.

Many countries around the world have created such campaigns.

What makes you think that campaign will succeed?

I recall that the Iranian regime, North Korean regime, perhaps the Sisi regime today as outlined in some instances by member @Philip the Arab have/had created such campaigns.

Creating a plan and executing the plan successfully are two different tasks. What makes you think Turkey will succeed? I am curious.

Korean government or the Taiwanese leadership had also created plans for national development. Just like not all businesses flourish, not all nations flourish.

Who is to say Turkey will not flounder like Iran, Egypt, Syria or North Korea? Who is to say Turkey will not succeed like South Korea or Taiwan? I am curious to know why you believe Turkey will succeed.

 

[Xenon54]

Turkish industry needs to move up the value chain.

An excellent location, fertile land, abundant water, beautiful scenery, a youthful population, a cherished history at the cross roads of Europe and Middle East, Asia and Africa, a medium sized population but a relatively big population by regional standards, close ties to the West nurtured over decades all combine to make Turkey a very attractive location for local and foreign companies interested in exploring both the Turkish and the wider regional market.

Upskilling of the work force and further emphasis on basic and application oriented scientific research and technological development may be explored for this purpose.

As a concrete example, there should be no reason that smaller and more expensive (in terms of labour and land) countries such as Korea or Taiwan should be able to operate commercially lucrative wafer fabrication plants while Turkey does not.

Labour costs in Turkey are lower. The cost of land should also be lower. The population size is greater than either Korea or Taiwan. Its ideal location means Turkey should have captured a good chunk of this market by now. I am not sure why it has not done so yet.

Biotechnology and aerospace industries are also worth exploring. Marine and offshore engineering, transport engineering, advanced specialty chemicals, materials science, AI, IoT, mineral exploration and excavation technologies (for local, regional and global markets), space technologies, nuclear technologies, robotics, clean energy are some areas that immediately come to mind.

Are there industrial robot developers in Turkey? Automation can help Turkey boost its production and the productivity of the workforce by a significant percentage.

For that we need a goverment that ensures investor trust rather than acting like pariah which make Turkey look like a risky investment place, unfortunately it seems unlikely to happen with the current goverment.

There is a campaign towards indigenisation which will in turn allow domestic production of many different industrial products like turbo-machinery, microelectronics, aviation and space, defense industry products and higher value products in general. It is not related to China, it is a trend for the sake of enriching the national production.

Such promises/goals made by the goverment means nothing when the country is run like a family business.

 

[Anmdt]

Who is to say Turkey will not flounder like Iran, Egypt, Syria or North Korea

Any country may end up like these for several reasons, it is up to a spark in politics, not about economics or industrial development. Doesn't make any sense for this particular example.

Korean government or the Taiwanese leadership had also created plans for national development. Just like not all businesses flourish, not all nations flourish.

Taiwan has been successful by investing in education more than others do, same could be told hardly for Korea they have just managed a successful transformation from heavy industries to high-tech industries. Turkey doesn't have a background in heavy industries to transform like Korea, neither invests in education like Taiwan.
So, an example wise there isn't any proof, but definitely Turkey is not comparable to Iran which has been sanctioned over decades, isolated NK , Egypt which has ignored development for the reasons which i don't know. These examples, except Egypt(since i don't know the true reason they have ignored-postponed a development) is extreme and irrelevant.

What makes you think that campaign will succeed?

Only hope is being a neighbor of EU, being an Ally in NATO in terms of defense industry, Turkey has benefited remarkably from these. Not only in terms of ToT or production, a huge portion of Turkish companies has good relations with their partners in EU -some through organic ties-. The same benefits also apply to industry which, when needed there is always a partner from EU.

I am not (so do my colleagues) hopeful on basis of the campaign or just because of the campaign, even before than the campaign Turkey was showing the signs of the development which wasn't visible in worse-than-Turkey examples which you have given. Why me and my colleagues likes this campaign? More money is pumped at development, we have easier access to budgets for R&D, at least we have a decent research budget thanks to these campaigns.

I am in the industry, i can see the development, compare it to countries in the same league or one upper-league with Turkey which is striving to develop the similar thing, i see things are being achieved on Turkey's side but not theirs, which gives me hope despite of the negative condition mentioned by @xenon5434

If not the revolution, Iran would definitely be far ahead of Taiwan and Korea by now.
If not the isolation, NK could be ahead of the South Korea.

 

[Philip the Arab]

I recall that the Iranian regime, North Korean regime, perhaps the Sisi regime today as outlined in some instances by member @Philip the Arab have/had created such campaigns.

Egypt is developing factories, albeit quite slowly and is more focused on import substitution than it is developing advanced indigenous industries. Military wise, there are advancements in a few select industries that the government sees as important. I don't expect much until Egypt's education is reformed, and economy is much stronger than what it is currently.

 

[Zafer]

Many countries around the world have created such campaigns.

What makes you think that campaign will succeed?

I recall that the Iranian regime, North Korean regime, perhaps the Sisi regime today as outlined in some instances by member @Philip the Arab have/had created such campaigns.

Creating a plan and executing the plan successfully are two different tasks. What makes you think Turkey will succeed? I am curious.

Korean government or the Taiwanese leadership had also created plans for national development. Just like not all businesses flourish, not all nations flourish.

Who is to say Turkey will not flounder like Iran, Egypt, Syria or North Korea? Who is to say Turkey will not succeed like South Korea or Taiwan? I am curious to know why you believe Turkey will succeed.

Dude you have no clue what is going on.
Just the other day the completion of development and the delivery of a capable indigenous helicopter engine has been made. Being on this forum you would be expected to know better but really you have no clue. You are comparing Turkey with nations that have no achievement at all.

Do you think any sanctions will be capable of derailing Turkey's progress. They will stop the progress of those making the sanctions. There is a whole new world in the pandemic context too. Where the existing advanced nations' progress will be slowed while developing nations' progress will speed up.

 

[Saithan]

Dude you have no clue what is going on.
Just the other day the completion of development and the delivery of a capable indigenous helicopter engine has been made. Being on this forum you would be expected to know better but really you have no clue. You are comparing Turkey with nations that have no achievement at all.

Do you think any sanctions will be capable of derailing Turkey's progress. They will stop the progress of those making the sanctions. There is a whole new world in the pandemic context too. Where the existing advanced nations' progress will be slowed while developing nations' progress will speed up.

But only those who're also protecting their own industry will continue that growth. Look at how SK and China is going to establish production in Turkey.

They know that Turkey is the next important step in Supply chain, so they're moving there to have an advantage. Unless our own industry is good and strong and can compete, they will die out. Look at how Sony has become nearly zero in smartphones and other products.

Sony is outcompeted in smartphones, and many other japanese products likewise. There are too many SK and China brands of decent and good quality out there to compete.

That is why it's important to raise the lowest possible up and protect our own industry at the same time.

You want us to stay as car sparepart maker-like country ? Some think it's great that the prices will be lower on smartphones, but it'll likely kill our own industry.

 

[Zafer]

But only those who're also protecting their own industry will continue that growth. Look at how SK and China is going to establish production in Turkey.

They know that Turkey is the next important step in Supply chain, so they're moving there to have an advantage. Unless our own industry is good and strong and can compete, they will die out. Look at how Sony has become nearly zero in smartphones and other products.

Sony is outcompeted in smartphones, and many other japanese products likewise. There are too many SK and China brands of decent and good quality out there to compete.

That is why it's important to raise the lowest possible up and protect our own industry at the same time.

You want us to stay as car sparepart maker-like country ? Some think it's great that the prices will be lower on smartphones, but it'll likely kill our own industry.

No, I don't.
I am not a fan of foreign brands investing in Turkey, especially those who will only do assembly job.
But some will outsource the work to local makers and the other will export from Turkey and make money for the country. I think someday iron curtains between countries may be pulled again and we need our industry to be able to make the products we need at that time. There should be makers in the country that can make the products end to end. But still those companies that will produce in Turkey can help us learn ways of doing stuff better as our people will also work in those factories.

 

[ekemenirtu]

Dude you have no clue what is going on.
Just the other day the completion of development and the delivery of a capable indigenous helicopter engine has been made. Being on this forum you would be expected to know better but really you have no clue. You are comparing Turkey with nations that have no achievement at all.

Do you think any sanctions will be capable of derailing Turkey's progress. They will stop the progress of those making the sanctions. There is a whole new world in the pandemic context too. Where the existing advanced nations' progress will be slowed while developing nations' progress will speed up.

1. I hope you will learn to avoid ad hominems. The purpose is to exchange views and if possible, learn some facts and opinions from different peoples hailing from different cultures, nations, religions, linguistic and political backgrounds.

2. All of the countries I have listed made "some" achievements.

3. The helicopter engine in question has not yet been installed and flown in any civilian or defence product.

4. All it took was a single Tweet from Donald Trump to send the Turkish economy to the .... (I would not finish the sentence out of respect for our Turkish brothers and sisters).

5. I recognize many Turkish citizens, much like citizens of many other neighbouring countries and regions, tend to suffer from an overinflated ego.

Akin to those found in Arabic, Kurdish, Persian, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghan, Berber, Slavic, Armenian or other neighbouring populations.

6. However, facts stand in the way of such beliefs. Again, I do not wish to hurt the self-esteem of our Turkish brothers and sisters. Let us recall that it only took a Tweet from Donald Trump to create enormous difficulties for Turkish citizens and businesses.

It is easy to surmise, based upon verified facts and precedents, that the Turkish government will be forced to budge under a concerted Western campaign of sabotage, disinformation, propaganda, subterfuge, sanctions, embargo and very realistic threats of invasion.

Those are the sort of pressure the regimes in Iran or North Korea have had to face for decades now.

It is doubtful that the Turkish government will be able to successfully stave off any concerted Western sabotage attempts to the same extent that Russian Federation has, either.

Of course, there is the simple fact that in matters of hard power, geopolitical reach (P5 veto wielding member of UNSC, recognized nuclear power under NPT) and military or civilian tech, Russian Federation leads the Republic of Turkey by a substantial degree.

Therefore, it would not be unreasonable to expect the Turkish government to budge under Western threats and pressure where Russian Federation would not. For example, providing asylum to a certain Edward Snowden, allegedly carrying out sabotage operations of their own in the United States as well as in European Union, nurturing a class of political actors in those countries whose loyalty lie first and foremost to Moscow rather than Washington D.C or Brussels, or putting up with targeted sanctions for taking over/annexing Crimea region or for its military operations in Georgia, Syria, Armenia/Artsakh/Azerbaijan or arguably even Libya (through private contractors such as the Wagners).

While there are many reasons why the Turkish government could succeed in the future in its attempts to increase self-reliance in defence industries, there are also many reasons why those attempts may not succeed.

None of the reasons you have outlined explain why the Turkish government should be expected to succeed, with certainty.

 

[Zafer]

1. I hope you will learn to avoid ad hominems. The purpose is to exchange views and if possible, learn some facts and opinions from different peoples hailing from different cultures, nations, religions, linguistic and political backgrounds.

2. All of the countries I have listed made "some" achievements.

3. The helicopter engine in question has not yet been installed and flown in any civilian or defence product.

4. All it took was a single Tweet from Donald Trump to send the Turkish economy to the .... (I would not finish the sentence out of respect for our Turkish brothers and sisters).

5. I recognize many Turkish citizens, much like citizens of many other neighbouring countries and regions, tend to suffer from an overinflated ego.

Akin to those found in Arabic, Kurdish, Persian, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Afghan, Berber, Slavic, Armenian or other neighbouring populations.

6. However, facts stand in the way of such beliefs. Again, I do not wish to hurt the self-esteem of our Turkish brothers and sisters. Let us recall that it only took a Tweet from Donald Trump to create enormous difficulties for Turkish citizens and businesses.

It is easy to surmise, based upon verified facts and precedents, that the Turkish government will be forced to budge under a concerted Western campaign of sabotage, disinformation, propaganda, subterfuge, sanctions, embargo and very realistic threats of invasion.

Those are the sort of pressure the regimes in Iran or North Korea have had to face for decades now.

It is doubtful that the Turkish government will be able to successfully stave off any concerted Western sabotage attempts to the same extent that Russian Federation has, either.

Of course, there is the simple fact that in matters of hard power, geopolitical reach (P5 veto wielding member of UNSC, recognized nuclear power under NPT) and military or civilian tech, Russian Federation leads the Republic of Turkey by a substantial degree.

Therefore, it would not be unreasonable to expect the Turkish government to budge under Western threats and pressure where Russian Federation would not. For example, providing asylum to a certain Edward Snowden, allegedly carrying out sabotage operations of their own in the United States as well as in European Union, nurturing a class of political actors in those countries whose loyalty lie first and foremost to Moscow rather than Washington D.C or Brussels, or putting up with targeted sanctions for taking over/annexing Crimea region or for its military operations in Georgia, Syria, Armenia/Artsakh/Azerbaijan or arguably even Libya (through private contractors such as the Wagners).

While there are many reasons why the Turkish government could succeed in the future in its attempts to increase self-reliance in defence industries, there are also many reasons why those attempts may not succeed.

None of the reasons you have outlined explain why the Turkish government should be expected to succeed, with certainty.

Stop smoking that thing you are smoking.
What makes you think Turkey can not make a helicopter engine and run it?
All the the things that Turkey has done so far and in the process of doing, you don't know them.
Lame duck Donald Trump takes his tweeting machine tweets on us. LOL
I won't be easy next time.