TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Huelague

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I read somewhere that the airforce plans are for 150 aircraft total and that the 24 planes pers year are for the beginning stages and are supposed to increase but that depends on international customers.
150 Turkey
(48) Indonesia
I read somewhere between 200-250. But this is not my point. If we produced the first 24, do we get all of them? Let’s say the second batch are on higher production rate by 36. Do we get all of them until we get the number we need or purchased?
 

Zafer

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I read somewhere between 200-250. But this is not my point. If we produced the first 24, do we get all of them? Let’s say the second batch are on higher production rate by 36. Do we get all of them until we get the number we need or purchased?
I think they would take multiple orders for the same time period as TurAF once the urgent few fleets of TurAF are already delivered. It will depend on the urgency situation of the customers. TurAF will probably want to get newer planes as the planes mature and evolve with every production run.
 
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TR_123456

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I read somewhere between 200-250. But this is not my point. If we produced the first 24, do we get all of them? Let’s say the second batch are on higher production rate by 36. Do we get all of them until we get the number we need or purchased?
All early KAAN's are for the Turkish Airforce,the export only starts after the indigenous engine is ready,not before.
 

Khagan1923

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I still think we relations on a high we should sit down with RR and ask for assistance on TF35000. I trust TEI but even if RR can help us speed up development by 10% it would translate to 1-2 years.

The faster we have working indigenous engines to power Kaan the faster we will gain independence in the skies.

TAI is already deepening its partnership with BAE. Would not surpise me if the path slowly leads to Tempest for TAI.
 

2033

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I still think we relations on a high we should sit down with RR and ask for assistance on TF35000. I trust TEI but even if RR can help us speed up development by 10% it would translate to 1-2 years.

The faster we have working indigenous engines to power Kaan the faster we will gain independence in the skies.

TAI is already deepening its partnership with BAE. Would not surpise me if the path slowly leads to Tempest for TAI.
No one "really" helps when it comes to engines.
 

Yasar_TR

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Should we?
It is “Kırlıkovalı”

He is supposed to be the brains behind the stealth paint of B21 and F35.

 

Huelague

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The reason why I am asking, is it possible to bring the „godfather“ of RAM to Türkiye? And more important, does he holds the IP rights of his works?
 

TR_123456

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The reason why I am asking, is it possible to bring the „godfather“ of RAM to Türkiye? And more important, does he holds the IP rights of his works?
Who says he is not already working with us if he is what you claim he is?
 

Huelague

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It’s semi related to TFX, but…
It seems that the FCAS program between France and Germany will be canceled and France prefer a single own project.

In this case, Türkiye could close the gap as alternative partner. What do you think?
 

IC3M@N FX

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Alternative partners for whom? Germany? The population is already outraged that the German Chancellor has travelled to Turkey to curry favour and actively seek arms and Technology cooperation with turkey.
The German People dont understand the 180° turn, because Germany's political agenda against Turkey more a decade has not worked out....
Having spent more than a decade convincing its own German population that Turkey is an system enemy of Germany and free World thanks to Linke, Grüne & SPD and AfD featuring the Jewish Springer publishing house.
Turkey will never let Germany be at the core of any project because the Germans will have to kiss the Zionists asses for the rest of their lives, whether they like it or not.
 

boredaf

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It’s semi related to TFX, but…
It seems that the FCAS program between France and Germany will be canceled and France prefer a single own project.

In this case, Türkiye could close the gap as alternative partner. What do you think?
Never. Tying such an important future program to whims of Germany is like giving a loaded gun to a toddler and hoping it wouldn't be able to pull the trigger. If we were to join any 6th gen program, it would be GCAP and even then, I'd highly doubt it.

In any case, 6th gen is not something we should be truly concerned about imo. I think with 5th gen we have come to the point that next iterations won't be leaps in technology like between 4th and 5th but rather refinements and small improvements. Hell, no one even has a proper definition yet other than everyone going for even flatter geometry to try to reduce to RCS and possibly higher power generation to give the planes better electronic counter measures.

Mastering the 5th gen, longer range AA missiles with seekers and drones to accompany Kaan should be our focus, especially since we have a far limited budget and staff resources than others like China or US or countries in these programs.
 

IC3M@N FX

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It's not that simple: if both sides have stealth capabilities, stealth loses its original role as a "long-range advantage" and instead becomes a prerequisite for even surviving in modern air combat. This shifts the actual BVR window to a realistic engagement range of 30 to 60 km, because only in this range can sufficient track quality be established against VLO targets.

At this distance, the nominal range of a missile is hardly relevant. The only decisive factor is endgame energy. This requires BVRAAMs with a basic range of 100+ km, but optimised for high agility in the medium-range band: weapons with dual impulse or ramjet engines that reach Mach 4.5–4.8 or more and continue to provide active thrust in the terminal stage. Only such missiles create a sufficiently large no-escape zone to reliably achieve their effect in a stealth-versus-stealth scenario.

Long ranges of 150–200 km remain relevant against genuine stealth platforms only under extremely specific conditions – for example, with multi-static sensor technology, triangulation, network hand-off between multiple radar sources, or if a target accidentally flies in a very unfavourable aspect. Without this highly networked sensor technology, such a shot loses almost all practical relevance because the target is detected too late or too inaccurately. This means that classic "150+ km" BVR missiles, which were primarily designed to counter Gen-4/4+ jets, are virtually ineffective in the new scenario.

This means that a genuine post-stealth phase is now – or will very soon – emerge. Pure signature reduction is no longer sufficient. The following factors will be decisive:

sensory superiority (AESA, IRST, ESM, LPI data links)

kinetics and endgame energy of the aircraft and the missiles used, and agile platforms with strong energy management.

In this environment, the F-35, for example, will age faster because it is not designed to compete with an equal opponent that has more power, as other stealth platforms are already designed for greater agility and superior energy management. Rather, the F-35 is a BVR shooter mainly against Gen 4+ aircraft.

Stealth remains essential – but only in combination with agility, sensor fusion and high-energy weapons will true superiority emerge in the post-stealth era.
 

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