TR Air-Force EF Typhoon

[Nutuk]

I agree, but seen the timeframe of deliveries (2030-32) and Kaan blk10 - 20 planned in that timeframe too someone needs a real good explanation why we throw out billions for a foreign fighter with all the dependencies, weapons integration limitations etc.

The primary idea was early induction of EF jets from Qatar and Oman.
Now if that is not going to happen (there is no single announcement when the planes would come) than what other advantages do we have buying these extra expensive planes from the UK???

If someone can explain it, be my guest!

 

[TurkWolf]

I agree, but seen the timeframe of deliveries (2030-32) and Kaan blk10 - 20 planned in that timeframe too someone needs a real good explanation why we throw out billions for a foreign fighter with all the dependencies, weapons integration limitations etc.

The primary idea was early induction of EF jets from Qatar and Oman.
Now if that is not going to happen (there is no single announcement when the planes would come) than what other advantages do we have buying these extra expensive planes from the UK???

If someone can explain it, be my guest!

Honestly, the only explanation that makes sense is that our leadership simply does not believe KAAN will be ready in time for the capability gap we’re facing. If they were fully confident that KAAN Block‑10 and Block‑20 would arrive on schedule and in meaningful numbers, there would be zero logic in spending billions on a foreign fighter with all the usual downsides ,dependency, integration limits, and long‑term cost.

So the EF purchase feels like a “better than nothing” insurance policy.

 

[maluus]

Honestly, the only explanation that makes sense is that our leadership simply does not believe KAAN will be ready in time for the capability gap we’re facing. If they were fully confident that KAAN Block‑10 and Block‑20 would arrive on schedule and in meaningful numbers, there would be zero logic in spending billions on a foreign fighter with all the usual downsides ,dependency, integration limits, and long‑term cost.

So the EF purchase feels like a “better than nothing” insurance policy.

You know, maybe leadership know things we don't know or have other things on their mind. But I'm sure they evaluated all the options and possibilities and decided accordingly

 

[Nutuk]

You know, maybe leadership know things we don't know or have other things on their mind. But I'm sure they evaluated all the options and possibilities and decided accordingly

Yep that is the only hope left.

EF against whom do we need it?
Iran? No need
Israel? insufficient
Greece? Well that's a bummer to buy aircraft from the EU to use against an EU member, good luck with that! We give them a reason not to deliver them at all, just like the UK did not deliver our ships in WW1


I don't know, hope indeed that our leadership has very valid reasons that no one else can see

 

[TurkWolf]

You know, maybe leadership know things we don't know or have other things on their mind. But I'm sure they evaluated all the options and possibilities and decided accordingly

Yep that is the only hope left.

EF against whom do we need it?
Iran? No need
Israel? insufficient
Greece? Well that's a bummer to buy aircraft from the EU to use against an EU member, good luck with that! We give them a reason not to deliver them at all, just like the UK did not deliver our ships in WW1


I don't know, hope indeed that our leadership has very valid reasons that no one else can see

To be honest, we don’t actually know the political calculations behind this purchase. It might not be purely about capability at all. It could easily be about signalling .basically showing the US that Türkiye has other options, other partners, and isn’t dependent on Washington’s games and annoyance. Spending money to annoy the US or remind them we’re not stuck with F‑16s might sound strange, but it’s one possible scenario behind closed doors.

Personally, I don’t fully agree with the stop‑gap logic. I don’t see any immediate threat that requires rushing to buy extremely expensive jets from the UK. And I don’t think we’re in a situation where we desperately need a temporary fleet to “hold the line.” But again, we don’t know what the leadership sees, what intelligence they have, or what political pressures they’re dealing with. All we can do is make educated guesses.

If I had to lean one way, I’d say the people in charge genuinely feel we need some kind of deterrence insurance in case KAAN slips, gets delayed, or doesn’t mature as fast as planned. That’s probably the safest explanation.

Not ideal, but a hedge against uncertainty.

 

[Zafer]

Once we have nailed the TF35k development we can ditch every foreign product acquisition, we will know in 2 years.

The next challenge the world is going to face is supply chain disruptions that will cause plans to collapse. No nation is immune to supply chain failures so promises given today may not be kept tomorrow. The solution is going for watered down or cheap systems that can be made inhouse. If you can't make the top notch you go for the easier.

EF Typhoon is a mistake that can turn into an opportunity, if we can get the second hand ones on the cheap it can be worth it otherwise it will be a mistake you can not avoid.

 

[Racim]

EF against whom do we need it?

hey i am new here so i might be wrong.
turkey is in a win - win situation with them buying EFT.

- they get a new squad of plane that will last longer and can put the surending country in a difficult place. much as greece rafale or russia su35. where a F-16 modernized would not hold in bvr.
- they also get acces to new weapons, they can easly learn the tech and use it for their own missile developement.
- not to forget the Captor mk2 radar can give them intrest in the wide angle type of radar.
- with the EFT engines. they will def try to copy it or learn 1 or 2 things from it.

not saying that the turkey AF is weak but a F-16 blk50 ot blk70 would not hold against a rafale or a su35. nor does it have the BVR power to do so.
even if that money was put into KAAN project, that will leave the AF with the f16s untils 2035 or so.

 

[Zafer]

Good luck achieving this with Hürjet LCA

View attachment 81869
View attachment 81870

You can use a pair of Hürjet LCA

 

[I_Love_F16]

@Nutuk What if Kaan engine development has issues and they delay it for a few years… You have to think in the long term and in the worst-case scenario. Those Eurofighters would be a good stopgap and an insurance policy if things goes bad. The Air Force would at least have something if anything bad happens.

Yes, it’s frustrating but at the end of the day and like others said, we still relies on old F-16’s. Yes they are being modernized, but there’s still a long way to go, and who knows, maybe we’re going to encounter some issues during the modernization process ?

 

[Spitfire9]

@Nutuk What if Kaan engine development has issues and they delay it for a few years… You have to think in the long term and in the worst-case scenario. Those Eurofighters would be a good stopgap and an insurance policy if things goes bad. The Air Force would at least have something if anything bad happens.

Very expensive but offering greater capability while covering Turkiye against KAAN project delay or engine supply problems - US or indigenous. Eurofighter failed to get organised on AESA radar for many years. Will Turkiye's Typhoons use the European Common Radar System (ECRS) Mk2 version, reported to be outstandingly good?

 

[uçuyorum]

@Nutuk you are being reductive here. There's definitely info on EF performance from exercises and we have been in them, seen them side by side including with rafales. So we know their performance when buying them. It's also the only aircraft we could really acquire that's up to date and high end, but other countries program evaluations also corroborate it's performance vs gripen and rafale. Qatar EF are likely to arrive WHEN WE HAVE PILOTS READY FOR THEM. I explained this point but you seem to be ignoring it. And we just have to have an AESA equipped capable fighter. Because with Block 50 you might as well not have any fighters.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Good luck achieving this with Hürjet LCA

View attachment 81869
View attachment 81870

Eurofighter still can't use JDAM though

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Yep that is the only hope left.

EF against whom do we need it?
Iran? No need
Israel? insufficient
Greece? Well that's a bummer to buy aircraft from the EU to use against an EU member, good luck with that! We give them a reason not to deliver them at all, just like the UK did not deliver our ships in WW1


I don't know, hope indeed that our leadership has very valid reasons that no one else can see

EF the most nonsense puchase Türkiye did for years , İts non steathy jet and our major opponents like israel , greece can easy spot it ,
Second , it will be active around 2030/31 when our own steath jet KAAN aslo will became active duty
İ think the puchace is pure heo-political agreement with UK support agaist france greece and israel in mediterian , if something happens UK will stay out or even support us because of 10 billion+ pounds we sent to them

 

[Yasar_TR]

Eurofighter still can't use JDAM though

I am not a fan of JDAM to be honest. A range of 28km means you have to bring your fighter jets in to enemy AD areas to deploy them, unless you release them from IWBs of KE or Anka-3.
Since we will have access to relevant source codesl we can easily integrate HGK and KGK MK series smart bombs on to Typhoons.

Re: the capability of Typhoon.
You just need to listen to the British pilot who flew Harriers, F16s and Typhoons. He says after f16, flying a Typhoon was like an f16 with 3 engines. Much higher altitude flight capability with a lot of power behind you.
I have watched f16 (solo Türk) and Typhoon in many air shows. The manoeuvrability of typhoon and the vertical climb ability is something else. We have a saying in Turkish : “Görünen köye kılavuz gerekmez”. (No need for a guide to find the village you can see). 613 typhoons delivered so far. Plus 147 new orders. Twin engines in war setting giving you more than 30000lbf military (dry) thrust. Continuous military thrust of 27000lbf allowing you to have at high altitude, 1.5mach supercruise capability. With ECRSMK2 radar it is the best 4.5 generation fighter jet in the west.

Hurjet prototypes have been flying for sometime now. But they still can’t do those acrobatic moves we are expecting from them. New prototypes are coming. And with them the capability to do acrobatic moves. But it takes time to safely incorporate all those flight moves in to the airframe.
Kaan will go through these paces as well. It is not just a matter of serial production. But accrediting the planes for safe fleet usage fully capable of flying like a jet fighter should fly. If there are delays, (and yes there are going to be) like even now. Then we need to cover ourselves. According to first statement of Demiroglu, Kaan P01 should have flown end of 2024, then early 2025. We are still waiting.

The state, having had their hands burnt badly with Altay, are now preparing for all eventualities to cover themselves.
Yes, the typhoons are very expensive. But they are the only ones that fit for our situation.

 

[MonteCarlo]

EF the most nonsense puchase Türkiye did for years , İts non steathy jet and our major opponents like israel , greece can easy spot it ,
Second , it will be active around 2030/31 when our own steath jet KAAN aslo will became active duty
İ think the puchace is pure heo-political agreement with UK support agaist france greece and israel in mediterian , if something happens UK will stay out or even support us because of 10 billion+ pounds we sent to them

Just because Greece is buying 20 F-35s, every non-stealth fighter in the region does not suddenly become obsolete. 99% of the sorties will still be flown by non-stealth fighters. Eurofighter provides immaculate kinematic performance that no other fighter bar the F-22 can match, which is very valuable for interceptions.


But I do agree that we need them way before 2030

 

[Samba]

Based on which assumption? I do not remember EF successes in major battles. Yes EF did some bombings over Iraq and Afganistan in coalition partner missions. But bombings are common for any fighter jet, nothing special.

When was the last time an EF shot another fighter jet out of the sky?

Eurofighter combat record:
No air-to-air combat against manned aircraft to date; has shot down several hostile drones (2024–26)

2011 Libya UK/Italy air to ground strike and reconnaissance only
2015 - 19 anti ISIS UK Precision air to ground strikes; no air to air combat
2024 - 25 drone defense UK destroyed several Iranian / Houthi drones


Sorry but EF combat record is very meager to say it will be better than the Kaan. I am not saying that it is a bad aircraft, maybe it did not get the chance to proof herself but everything points to that it is not worth the amount of resources we pour into this 4th generation jet while the rest of the world is pursuing 5th and 6th generation.

You know cutting edge tech fighter, one of its kind, decades old, best fighter to date F22 has one and only air2air record which is against a balloon

 

[Nutuk]

Every opinion counts, I see also what proponents of the EF see. But do not just tip away the Hurjet LCA as useless because pairing of Kizilelma with the Italian M-346 have begun.

We could match LCA with Kizilelma and we could even finance and quicken to build twin engine Kizilelma that can achieve same speeds as EF.


We are in a unique position with Kizilelma, ANKA-3 (ANKA-4 in development) and Kaan. Yet we choose to throw and bind a big amount of funds for a 4th generation fighter jet in which we have zero input. It hurts to see such a step back

 

[2033]

I think we only bought them to send a message to the US.
This is just another consequence of the reckless S-400 decision made by our leaders.
If we were still in the F-35 program, the parts we produced would have paid for our jets, and we would have made a profit. Now, we are forced to buy the most expensive 4th-generation jet in the world.
And don't bring up Israel. Getting kicked out of the F-35 program was 100% because of the S-400

 

[Saithan]

Every opinion counts, I see also what proponents of the EF see. But do not just tip away the Hurjet LCA as useless because pairing of Kizilelma with the Italian M-346 have begun.

We could match LCA with Kizilelma and we could even finance and quicken to build twin engine Kizilelma that can achieve same speeds as EF.


We are in a unique position with Kizilelma, ANKA-3 (ANKA-4 in development) and Kaan. Yet we choose to throw and bind a big amount of funds for a 4th generation fighter jet in which we have zero input. It hurts to see such a step back

I disagree with that pov. There is no accountability for failures, delays and hindrances we could face. Every little hindrace delays us 6months - 2 years.

The waiting games has passed a critical point which is why we need EF.

If we were going to gamble on waiting government should have order 100 KE and every other Unmanned airframe.

 

[boredaf]

Every opinion counts, I see also what proponents of the EF see. But do not just tip away the Hurjet LCA as useless because pairing of Kizilelma with the Italian M-346 have begun.

We could match LCA with Kizilelma and we could even finance and quicken to build twin engine Kizilelma that can achieve same speeds as EF.


We are in a unique position with Kizilelma, ANKA-3 (ANKA-4 in development) and Kaan. Yet we choose to throw and bind a big amount of funds for a 4th generation fighter jet in which we have zero input. It hurts to see such a step back

EF is being built right now, Hürjet fighter version doesn't even exist yet. You trash talk EF's performance in real world all the while you want us to put all eggs on Hürjet which has just flown so far, and wasn't even really designed for battle unlike the EF. Or KE, which has only munition tests to its name.

Everything you mention is future development and none of it is guaranteed to be become a fact far faster than EF, and not to mention even capable of achieving its performance levels. Not to mention, and I am amazed at your ability to simply pretend like this issue doesn't exist, Hürjet is COMPLETELY at the mercy of the yanks or Europeans for its engine. Nobody can guarantee that we will be able to get the engines we need for it. What happens if the US blocks the engine sale for it?

So, wanting to bet everything on Hürjet, a trainer that can hit none of the performance points of EF, which is slaved to foreign countries because of its engine and hoping that KE and Anka-3 (two drones that cannot keep up with Hürjet with their current engine options btw) can make up the difference is borderline insane.