TR Air-Force EF Typhoon

[Gaucho]

Si por mí fuera, cancelaría toda la orden de alerta por tifón.

No hay tifones en absoluto, opta por el LCA Hurjet y produce más Kaan blk 10 / 20

I would very much like the Hürjet LCA to develop to a level of the future single-seater KAI F-50, a more powerful engine and kaan technology

 

[Gaucho]

Turkey’s Eurofighter Typhoons on the Production Line! BAE Systems announced that the production of the aircraft is underway in the UK and in partner countries of the Eurofighter Typhoon program, with the first delivery scheduled for 2030.

 

[begturan]

If it was up to me I would cancel the whole typhoon order.

No typhoons at all, go for LCA Hurjet and produce more Kaan blk 10 / 20

Our procurement decisions shouldn't be evaluated solely based on need. Türkiye's procurements, or lack thereof, are generally planned in line with long-term policy objectives. In line with long-term plans between Türkiye and the UK, certain purchases are being made to build mutual trust and commitment.

There are long-term investments between Türkiye and the UK in the Eastern Mediterranean axis. The UK has chosen to align itself with Türkiye and profit from it, rather than antagonize it, or is pursuing a distant relationship based on mutual interests.

 

[uçuyorum]

Typhoon procurement is good. F16 are not yet fully modernized (only 1 or 2 jets with Murad testing?) Kaan is not here yet. We need fully combat capable fighters with AESA asap. The qatari ones should arrive when our pilots and technicians complete training hopefully.

 

[Nutuk]

Kaan is not there yet is a bit strange excuse. Typhoon is not there yet (for us) too

 

[Yasar_TR]

@uçuyorum & @Nutuk ,

Both of you are correct from your own points of view.

Kaan fighter still needs a lot of steps and hurdles to go through. If Kaan is delayed or the US messes up with engine deliveries, then Typhoon is going to be a real gap stopper. In fact a further 20 to 40 more units wouldn’t go a miss.

The whole idea behind the purchase of Typhoons were the fact that at least 24 Tranch-3 jets were to be delivered this year. If that is not realised as programmed, then we are going to wait till 2030 for the first production jets to come in.
If Kaan block-10 start being delivered in 2028 as previously promised, then come 2032, optimistically, we will have 20 block 10 & 20 block 20 Kaan jets. These will be accompanied by 44 to 56 Typhoons. Ozgur 2 modernisation is going far too slow.
So those 84 to 96 units of Kaan and Typhoon 4.5 gen fighters, will form the backbone of our modern jet fighter fleet after 2028-2032.

If they can allocate enough cash to extend Ozgur2 modernisation for block 40 and block 50 f16s after the initial 35 block 30 jets, then all the merrier. Otherwise we will have to make do with the current f16s and the above mentioned Kaan + Typhoon mix.

They have already started getting us to accept 2033 for the new TF35000 engine integration. So by the time Kaan becomes truly 5th generation we may have more Kaan block-20 and EF2000 tranche 4/5 joining our fleet.

It is important to plan these matters so that all our eggs are not in the same basket.

 

[Sanchez]

If that is not realised as programmed, then we are going to wait till 2030 for the first production jets to come in.

We might get stopgap EFs in 2027 or 2028 as well

 

[uçuyorum]

Kaan is not there yet is a bit strange excuse. Typhoon is not there yet (for us) too

Yeah but I think the bottleneck is pilot training. If Typhoon arrived here today we can't fly it without ground crew and trained pilot or infrastructure. Qatar seemed very willing otherwise.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Don’t underestimate this: the Eurofighters that are coming will also bring with them a significant transfer of technology, including MRO capabilities.
It is not a question of copying them exactly, but of understanding them – their logic as fighter aircraft and other approaches to problem-solving.
The mere authorisation of interfaces for our own radar profiles, threat profiles, mission profiles, EW/ECM databases with our own algorithms, as well as the integration of our own munitions, is something that no other country apart from a consortium member has been granted.

This is also one of the main reasons why Germany has blocked the deal so many times: they are effectively providing us with a benchmark, a so-called test aircraft as a comparison platform, to which we have access and which we can use to compare and improve the TAI KAAN Block 10 & 20.
This annoys them because they know that knowledge is currently flowing out, and that this is irreversible.

 

[Sanchez]

Don’t underestimate this: the Eurofighters that are coming will also bring with them a significant transfer of technology, including MRO capabilities.
It is not a question of copying them exactly, but of understanding them – their logic as fighter aircraft and other approaches to problem-solving.
The mere authorisation of interfaces for our own radar profiles, threat profiles, mission profiles, EW/ECM databases with our own algorithms, as well as the integration of our own munitions, is something that no other country apart from a consortium member has been granted.

This is also one of the main reasons why Germany has blocked the deal so many times: they are effectively providing us with a benchmark, a so-called test aircraft as a comparison platform, to which we have access and which we can use to compare and improve the TAI KAAN Block 10 & 20.
This annoys them because they know that knowledge is currently flowing out, and that this is irreversible.

What we received with F-16 CCIP mod package and the missions computes is heaps and bounds more than what we will receive with the EF buy package.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

That is correct, but the Technology and Expertise we have acquired – both Software and Hardware – are based on US technology from the late 200Xs, the development of which was completed in Turkey in 2015 as part of the CCIP programme.
The Tranche 4 Eurofighter is already based on technology from the 2020s – both hardware and software – from the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain. This means that we have already reached the cutting edge of the Europeans’ 5th-Generation Technology without Stealth (Avionics, Communications, Radar, Sensorfusion etc.), at least as far as the Electronics and their Logic as a Fighter Aircraft are concerned, and how they define it. It will therefore serve as a Reference Platform (Benchmark) for the TAI KAAN.

Since the Tranche 2 P3Eb,
the Eurofighter has been a fully mature platform; with Tranches 3 and 4, it ranks among the world’s best 4.5+ generation fighter aircraft – probably ahead of the F-16, F-18, the Rafale and the SU-35S.

 

[Fatman17]

BAE Systems begins production of Turkish Eurofighter Typhoons

British workers have started building the first Eurofighter Typhoon jets Türkiye will actually fly, confirming a defense deal announced last October is now moving from paperwork into an actual factory floor. BAE Systems said manufacturing is already underway in the

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EFT production starts for TuAF

 

[Nutuk]

EF is in my opinion a severe investment that is not worth the money we pump in it.

The costs is not only the buying of the planes, we also have:
- to educate the pilots and ground crews
- adjust infrastructure
- buy a lot of weapons for these aircraft
- become partly dependent on EU nations


And for what? do we get them before 2030? NO! Deliveries are between 2030-32

It's a waste of valuable funds that can be better spend on Hurjet LCA / Kaan

 

[Pokemonte13]

EF is in my opinion a severe investment that is not worth the money we pump in it.

The costs is not only the buying of the planes, we also have:
- to educate the pilots and ground crews
- adjust infrastructure
- buy a lot of weapons for these aircraft
- become partly dependent on EU nations


And for what? do we get them before 2030? NO! Deliveries are between 2030-32

It's a waste of valuable funds that can be better spend on Hurjet LCA / Kaan

the investment depend on how many aircraft we will end up owning. There a huge fixed initial cost and variable cost if we were to buy the other 20 new aircraft the cost per airframe would go down and delivery would be before 2035 not to mention that Eurofighter will be more capable than any other jet in our inventory even kaan until it reaches full maturity. Hürjet LCA would only make sense once our F16 start leaving service or you want to prop up the numbers. Overall plan is still 400 manned platforms till 2040
230 F16
44-64 eurofighter
-+100 Kaan
Not enough room for LCA

 

[TR_123456]

the investment depend on how many aircraft we will end up owning. There a huge fixed initial cost and variable cost if we were to buy the other 20 new aircraft the cost per airframe would go down and delivery would be before 2035 not to mention that Eurofighter will be more capable than any other jet in our inventory even kaan until it reaches full maturity. Hürjet LCA would only make sense once our F16 start leaving service or you want to prop up the numbers. Overall plan is still 400 manned platforms till 2040
230 F16
44-64 eurofighter
-+100 Kaan
Not enough room for LCA

You sure about the F-16's till 2040?

 

[boredaf]

Hurjet LCA

You are overestimating the capabilities of Hürjet. It simply cannot replace F-16s or Eurofighter unless it is designed from ground up because it is first and foremost a trainer.

And, let's not forget, we don't have an engine for it, we don't even have an engine project for it and getting engines for a fighter jet would be harder than getting them for a trainer and make the entire plane dependent on others in the first place. Unless it is designed from scratch to use, perhaps, 2 TF10K, which would take too much time and too many resources for a questionable return.

 

[uçuyorum]

You are overestimating the capabilities of Hürjet. It simply cannot replace F-16s or Eurofighter unless it is designed from ground up because it is first and foremost a trainer.

And, let's not forget, we don't have an engine for it, we don't even have an engine project for it and getting engines for a fighter jet would be harder than getting them for a trainer and make the entire plane dependent on others in the first place. Unless it is designed from scratch to use, perhaps, 2 TF10K, which would take too much time and too many resources for a questionable return.

F404 acquisition likely wont be a problem since they gave us F110 for kaan now, for the time being at least.

 

[Nutuk]

There a huge fixed initial cost and variable cost if we were to buy the other 20 new aircraft the cost per airframe would go down and delivery would be before 2035 not to mention that Eurofighter will be more capable than any other jet in our inventory even kaan until it reaches full maturity.

Based on which assumption? I do not remember EF successes in major battles. Yes EF did some bombings over Iraq and Afganistan in coalition partner missions. But bombings are common for any fighter jet, nothing special.

When was the last time an EF shot another fighter jet out of the sky?

Eurofighter combat record:
No air-to-air combat against manned aircraft to date; has shot down several hostile drones (2024–26)

2011 Libya UK/Italy air to ground strike and reconnaissance only
2015 - 19 anti ISIS UK Precision air to ground strikes; no air to air combat
2024 - 25 drone defense UK destroyed several Iranian / Houthi drones


Sorry but EF combat record is very meager to say it will be better than the Kaan. I am not saying that it is a bad aircraft, maybe it did not get the chance to proof herself but everything points to that it is not worth the amount of resources we pour into this 4th generation jet while the rest of the world is pursuing 5th and 6th generation.

 

[Saithan]

Maybe you are right. Maybe Hürjet LCA is waiting for the success of KAAN. Once it's inducted to Service, I doubt they'd prevent selling 100 engines for Hürjet LCA version. Especially if the takeoff price is cheaper than alternatives. These are just guesses though.

But at the end of the day it is also a question of how versatile Hürjet is in its current airframe and what kind of armaments it can carry in LCA mode and for what roles.

Any big change would likely require a complete new airframe.

 

[Saithan]

Based on which assumption? I do not remember EF successes in major battles. Yes EF did some bombings over Iraq and Afganistan in coalition partner missions. But bombings are common for any fighter jet, nothing special.

When was the last time an EF shot another fighter jet out of the sky?

Eurofighter combat record:
No air-to-air combat against manned aircraft to date; has shot down several hostile drones (2024–26)

2011 Libya UK/Italy air to ground strike and reconnaissance only
2015 - 19 anti ISIS UK Precision air to ground strikes; no air to air combat
2024 - 25 drone defense UK destroyed several Iranian / Houthi drones


Sorry but EF combat record is very meager to say it will be better than the Kaan. I am not saying that it is a bad aircraft, maybe it did not get the chance to proof herself but everything points to that it is not worth the amount of resources we pour into this 4th generation jet while the rest of the world is pursuing 5th and 6th generation.

But I remember we talked that EF was going to replace our oldies F4, so I guess the knowledge and knowhow is going to be to similar extent and those bases that housed F4?