Turkish American relationship

[Bogeyman]

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council​

US President-elect Joe Biden nominated Brett McGurk, an outspoken advocate of American military presence in Syria and staunch detractor of the Turkish government, as Middle East coordinator on the National Security Council.

McGurk, a veteran of the national security establishment who served in various capacities under successive Democratic and Republican administrations, has frequently criticised the Turkish government over its role in Syria and broader regional policies.

McGurk quit his role as the US envoy to the international coalition to combat the Islamic State (IS) group late in 2018 over President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw American troops from northern Syria.

Biden formally announced McGurk's appointment on Friday along with the nomination of other national security officials and Cabinet members.

Turkish officials have long viewed McGurk with suspicion over his role in strengthening the partnership between US forces and the Kurdish-dominated Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which is led by the YPG militia - a Syrian offshoot of the Turkey-based PKK.

Both Washington and Ankara consider the PKK, which has been engaged in a military campaign against the Turkish government for decades, to be a terrorist group. But the SDF has been praised by American politicians and security officials over its role in defeating IS.

Turkey wary of McGurk​

In 2017, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu openly called for McGurk's removal. "Brett McGurk, the USA’s special envoy in the fight against Daesh [IS], is definitely and clearly giving support to the PKK and YPG. It would be beneficial if this person is changed," Cavusoglu said at the time.

A Turkish official told MEE after McGurk's nomination was revealed by US media reports earlier this week that the appointment was not surprising since Biden was gathering former Obama administration officials with "awful" track records to fill up national security positions.

"Beyond doubt, McGurk has harmed Turkish-American relations," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said. "He no longer has much room in northern Syria to support the YPG. But his attitude towards other issues in the region from Libya to Iraq remains to be seen."

McGurk has been outspoken against the Turkish government, especially since leaving his post.

Late in 2019, McGurk suggested that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan may have been harbouring IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was killed in a US raid weeks earlier.

The newly appointed Biden official said in a series of tweets at the time that Trump should ask Erdogan: "How exactly was Baghdadi living in a safe house with well-prepared tunnels less than 5km from your border?"

Trump had thanked Turkey, among other nations, after the US operation that killed Baghdadi in October 2019.

Later that year, after Erdogan called for Muslim-majority countries to work together against "Western threats" and denounced Israel's treatment of Palestinians, McGurk slammed him, sharing a Jerusalem Post article titled, "Erdogan bashes Israel, calls on Muslims to unite against the West".

"Erdogan called on Muslims to 'unite against the west' at the very moment Turkey is hosting US-designated-terrorist Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas in Istanbul," he wrote on Twitter.

US-Turkish relations​

When the UAE normalised relations with Israel earlier this year, McGurk welcomed the agreement and suggested that the two countries' common animosity towards Turkey helped bring them together.

"Among the key drivers for the historic normalization between #UAE and #Israel: Turkey’s regional policies, long viewed as increasingly threatening in both Jerusalem and Abu Dhabi," he said.

In a separate Twitter post, he said normalisation agreements between Israel and Arab countries "warrant broad US support."

The National Security Council advises and assists the president on foreign policy and defence matters. Biden himself has been a vocal critic of the Turkish president.

In an interview with the New York Times ahead of the US elections, Biden described Erdogan as an "autocrat", saying that he would support and "embolden" Turkish opposition leaders to defeat him "by the electoral process".

Relations between the US and Turkey - two Nato allies - have faced difficult challenges over a myriad of issues over the past years. Last month, the US imposed sanctions on Turkey over its purchase of Russian air defence systems.

Turkey faced bipartisan congressional outrage over its military campaign in northern Syria in 2019, which was enabled by a US military withdrawal.

McGurk on Iran​

The incoming Biden administration faces enormous challenges in the Middle East amid shifting political alignments in the region and growing domestic opposition to foreign interventions.

McGurk has previously called Turkey "the world’s largest sanctions buster on behalf of Iran". Still, he has called for diplomacy with Tehran, denouncing Trump's maximum pressure campaign against the Islamic Republic.

"It is important at this stage to consider how best to protect US interests and maintain pressure on Iran without further increasing the risks of an unpredictable conflict," he wrote in a 2019 Bloomberg column.

McGurk called for multilateralism in tackling relations with Iran but called the nuclear deal that saw Tehran scale back its nuclear programme in exchange for lifting sanctions against its economy "far from perfect".

"A starting point for new talks, for example, might demand that Iran agree to stay within the 2016 deal’s limits and release all Americans wrongfully held in its prisons," he wrote.

"In parallel, Washington might agree to freeze newly imposed sanctions, so long as negotiations toward a strengthened deal are making progress."

Biden has pledged to "reassess" relations with Saudi Arabia, but McGurk has a history of praising the kingdom for its security cooperation with Washington.

After a 2019 drone attack on Saudi oil facilities that Riyadh and Washington blamed on Tehran, McGurk suggested that Saudi Arabia may unilaterally respond to the incident with military strikes.

"If true that this brazen attack on Saudi soil was launched from Iran, then Saudi Arabia has every right to act in self-defence. It has [the] capacity to hit fixed targets with precision. Saudi pilots flew in our initial strikes against ISIS and performed well," he said.

However, he acknowledged in the same tweet that Yemen, where Saudi air strikes have killed thousands of civilians, "is another story".

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council

Turkish official says McGurk, who served as envoy to anti-IS coalition, 'harmed Turkish-American relations'

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Quasar]

the day we left NATO will be declared national holiday in Greece and the next day Greek side of Cyprus will enter NATO. Prudence is the key unless we decide to go nuclear and honestly me myself was thinking that this was the most unrealistic, irrational and the most childish thing to say but Turkey should go nuclear

 

[Ryder]

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council​

US President-elect Joe Biden nominated Brett McGurk, an outspoken advocate of American military presence in Syria and staunch detractor of the Turkish government, as Middle East coordinator on the National Security Council.

McGurk, a veteran of the national security establishment who served in various capacities under successive Democratic and Republican administrations, has frequently criticised the Turkish government over its role in Syria and broader regional policies.

McGurk quit his role as the US envoy to the international coalition to combat the Islamic State (IS) group late in 2018 over President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw American troops from northern Syria.

Biden formally announced McGurk's appointment on Friday along with the nomination of other national security officials and Cabinet members.

Turkish officials have long viewed McGurk with suspicion over his role in strengthening the partnership between US forces and the Kurdish-dominated Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which is led by the YPG militia - a Syrian offshoot of the Turkey-based PKK.

Both Washington and Ankara consider the PKK, which has been engaged in a military campaign against the Turkish government for decades, to be a terrorist group. But the SDF has been praised by American politicians and security officials over its role in defeating IS.

Turkey wary of McGurk​

In 2017, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu openly called for McGurk's removal. "Brett McGurk, the USA’s special envoy in the fight against Daesh [IS], is definitely and clearly giving support to the PKK and YPG. It would be beneficial if this person is changed," Cavusoglu said at the time.

A Turkish official told MEE after McGurk's nomination was revealed by US media reports earlier this week that the appointment was not surprising since Biden was gathering former Obama administration officials with "awful" track records to fill up national security positions.

"Beyond doubt, McGurk has harmed Turkish-American relations," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said. "He no longer has much room in northern Syria to support the YPG. But his attitude towards other issues in the region from Libya to Iraq remains to be seen."

McGurk has been outspoken against the Turkish government, especially since leaving his post.

Late in 2019, McGurk suggested that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan may have been harbouring IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was killed in a US raid weeks earlier.

The newly appointed Biden official said in a series of tweets at the time that Trump should ask Erdogan: "How exactly was Baghdadi living in a safe house with well-prepared tunnels less than 5km from your border?"

Trump had thanked Turkey, among other nations, after the US operation that killed Baghdadi in October 2019.

Later that year, after Erdogan called for Muslim-majority countries to work together against "Western threats" and denounced Israel's treatment of Palestinians, McGurk slammed him, sharing a Jerusalem Post article titled, "Erdogan bashes Israel, calls on Muslims to unite against the West".

"Erdogan called on Muslims to 'unite against the west' at the very moment Turkey is hosting US-designated-terrorist Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas in Istanbul," he wrote on Twitter.

US-Turkish relations​

When the UAE normalised relations with Israel earlier this year, McGurk welcomed the agreement and suggested that the two countries' common animosity towards Turkey helped bring them together.

"Among the key drivers for the historic normalization between #UAE and #Israel: Turkey’s regional policies, long viewed as increasingly threatening in both Jerusalem and Abu Dhabi," he said.

In a separate Twitter post, he said normalisation agreements between Israel and Arab countries "warrant broad US support."

The National Security Council advises and assists the president on foreign policy and defence matters. Biden himself has been a vocal critic of the Turkish president.

In an interview with the New York Times ahead of the US elections, Biden described Erdogan as an "autocrat", saying that he would support and "embolden" Turkish opposition leaders to defeat him "by the electoral process".

Relations between the US and Turkey - two Nato allies - have faced difficult challenges over a myriad of issues over the past years. Last month, the US imposed sanctions on Turkey over its purchase of Russian air defence systems.

Turkey faced bipartisan congressional outrage over its military campaign in northern Syria in 2019, which was enabled by a US military withdrawal.

McGurk on Iran​

The incoming Biden administration faces enormous challenges in the Middle East amid shifting political alignments in the region and growing domestic opposition to foreign interventions.

McGurk has previously called Turkey "the world’s largest sanctions buster on behalf of Iran". Still, he has called for diplomacy with Tehran, denouncing Trump's maximum pressure campaign against the Islamic Republic.

"It is important at this stage to consider how best to protect US interests and maintain pressure on Iran without further increasing the risks of an unpredictable conflict," he wrote in a 2019 Bloomberg column.

McGurk called for multilateralism in tackling relations with Iran but called the nuclear deal that saw Tehran scale back its nuclear programme in exchange for lifting sanctions against its economy "far from perfect".

"A starting point for new talks, for example, might demand that Iran agree to stay within the 2016 deal’s limits and release all Americans wrongfully held in its prisons," he wrote.

"In parallel, Washington might agree to freeze newly imposed sanctions, so long as negotiations toward a strengthened deal are making progress."

Biden has pledged to "reassess" relations with Saudi Arabia, but McGurk has a history of praising the kingdom for its security cooperation with Washington.

After a 2019 drone attack on Saudi oil facilities that Riyadh and Washington blamed on Tehran, McGurk suggested that Saudi Arabia may unilaterally respond to the incident with military strikes.

"If true that this brazen attack on Saudi soil was launched from Iran, then Saudi Arabia has every right to act in self-defence. It has [the] capacity to hit fixed targets with precision. Saudi pilots flew in our initial strikes against ISIS and performed well," he said.

However, he acknowledged in the same tweet that Yemen, where Saudi air strikes have killed thousands of civilians, "is another story".

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council

Turkish official says McGurk, who served as envoy to anti-IS coalition, 'harmed Turkish-American relations'

www.middleeasteye.net

Mcgurk is as dangerous as Soleimani

 

[Glass🚬]

the day we left NATO will be declared national holiday in Greece and the next day Greek side of Cyprus will enter NATO. Prudence is the key unless we decide to go nuclear and honestly me myself was thinking that this was the most unrealistic, irrational and the most childish thing to say but Turkey should go nuclear

No, stop overestimating NATO. It's irrelevant.

 

[Quasar]

you are totally misunderstanding the point it is not about ''NATO''. lets put it in this way above all other things ; international politics was/is and will not be irrelent in the current structure where Turkey has to operate like the rest of the actors. Further, within the current structure even USA has a need for a legitimization for her actions. it is all about being a member of an organization where your adversary has a say and seat. That is simply why Greece did not attended any meetings of NATO concerning Eastern Med but tried and manged to take this issue to EU where we have no say. it is all about representation in a paltform where you can put forward your arguments and seek or protect your interest.

 

[bsruzm]

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council​

US President-elect Joe Biden nominated Brett McGurk, an outspoken advocate of American military presence in Syria and staunch detractor of the Turkish government, as Middle East coordinator on the National Security Council.

McGurk, a veteran of the national security establishment who served in various capacities under successive Democratic and Republican administrations, has frequently criticised the Turkish government over its role in Syria and broader regional policies.

McGurk quit his role as the US envoy to the international coalition to combat the Islamic State (IS) group late in 2018 over President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw American troops from northern Syria.

Biden formally announced McGurk's appointment on Friday along with the nomination of other national security officials and Cabinet members.

Turkish officials have long viewed McGurk with suspicion over his role in strengthening the partnership between US forces and the Kurdish-dominated Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which is led by the YPG militia - a Syrian offshoot of the Turkey-based PKK.

Both Washington and Ankara consider the PKK, which has been engaged in a military campaign against the Turkish government for decades, to be a terrorist group. But the SDF has been praised by American politicians and security officials over its role in defeating IS.

Turkey wary of McGurk​

In 2017, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu openly called for McGurk's removal. "Brett McGurk, the USA’s special envoy in the fight against Daesh [IS], is definitely and clearly giving support to the PKK and YPG. It would be beneficial if this person is changed," Cavusoglu said at the time.

A Turkish official told MEE after McGurk's nomination was revealed by US media reports earlier this week that the appointment was not surprising since Biden was gathering former Obama administration officials with "awful" track records to fill up national security positions.

"Beyond doubt, McGurk has harmed Turkish-American relations," the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said. "He no longer has much room in northern Syria to support the YPG. But his attitude towards other issues in the region from Libya to Iraq remains to be seen."

McGurk has been outspoken against the Turkish government, especially since leaving his post.

Late in 2019, McGurk suggested that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan may have been harbouring IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who was killed in a US raid weeks earlier.

The newly appointed Biden official said in a series of tweets at the time that Trump should ask Erdogan: "How exactly was Baghdadi living in a safe house with well-prepared tunnels less than 5km from your border?"

Trump had thanked Turkey, among other nations, after the US operation that killed Baghdadi in October 2019.

Later that year, after Erdogan called for Muslim-majority countries to work together against "Western threats" and denounced Israel's treatment of Palestinians, McGurk slammed him, sharing a Jerusalem Post article titled, "Erdogan bashes Israel, calls on Muslims to unite against the West".

"Erdogan called on Muslims to 'unite against the west' at the very moment Turkey is hosting US-designated-terrorist Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas in Istanbul," he wrote on Twitter.

US-Turkish relations​

When the UAE normalised relations with Israel earlier this year, McGurk welcomed the agreement and suggested that the two countries' common animosity towards Turkey helped bring them together.

"Among the key drivers for the historic normalization between #UAE and #Israel: Turkey’s regional policies, long viewed as increasingly threatening in both Jerusalem and Abu Dhabi," he said.

In a separate Twitter post, he said normalisation agreements between Israel and Arab countries "warrant broad US support."

The National Security Council advises and assists the president on foreign policy and defence matters. Biden himself has been a vocal critic of the Turkish president.

In an interview with the New York Times ahead of the US elections, Biden described Erdogan as an "autocrat", saying that he would support and "embolden" Turkish opposition leaders to defeat him "by the electoral process".

Relations between the US and Turkey - two Nato allies - have faced difficult challenges over a myriad of issues over the past years. Last month, the US imposed sanctions on Turkey over its purchase of Russian air defence systems.

Turkey faced bipartisan congressional outrage over its military campaign in northern Syria in 2019, which was enabled by a US military withdrawal.

McGurk on Iran​

The incoming Biden administration faces enormous challenges in the Middle East amid shifting political alignments in the region and growing domestic opposition to foreign interventions.

McGurk has previously called Turkey "the world’s largest sanctions buster on behalf of Iran". Still, he has called for diplomacy with Tehran, denouncing Trump's maximum pressure campaign against the Islamic Republic.

"It is important at this stage to consider how best to protect US interests and maintain pressure on Iran without further increasing the risks of an unpredictable conflict," he wrote in a 2019 Bloomberg column.

McGurk called for multilateralism in tackling relations with Iran but called the nuclear deal that saw Tehran scale back its nuclear programme in exchange for lifting sanctions against its economy "far from perfect".

"A starting point for new talks, for example, might demand that Iran agree to stay within the 2016 deal’s limits and release all Americans wrongfully held in its prisons," he wrote.

"In parallel, Washington might agree to freeze newly imposed sanctions, so long as negotiations toward a strengthened deal are making progress."

Biden has pledged to "reassess" relations with Saudi Arabia, but McGurk has a history of praising the kingdom for its security cooperation with Washington.

After a 2019 drone attack on Saudi oil facilities that Riyadh and Washington blamed on Tehran, McGurk suggested that Saudi Arabia may unilaterally respond to the incident with military strikes.

"If true that this brazen attack on Saudi soil was launched from Iran, then Saudi Arabia has every right to act in self-defence. It has [the] capacity to hit fixed targets with precision. Saudi pilots flew in our initial strikes against ISIS and performed well," he said.

However, he acknowledged in the same tweet that Yemen, where Saudi air strikes have killed thousands of civilians, "is another story".

Biden appoints staunch Turkey critic Brett McGurk to National Security Council

Turkish official says McGurk, who served as envoy to anti-IS coalition, 'harmed Turkish-American relations'

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[GoatsMilk]

Sorry but this is utter garbage and misleading!

Its pure nonsense.

s400 was brought as a reaction to NATO arming communist terrorists along Turkeys borders. If this continues to happen Turkey will naturally do more business with Russia where it makes sense, however...

Name one other nation outside the US that has fought against the Russians in 3 theatres this year alone? Syria, Libya, and Azerbaijan.

France however sides with Russia against Turkey in both Libya and Azerbaijan.

The reality is Turkey has done more to combat Russia then the whole of NATO bar the USA.

Most of NATO is filled with cowardly nations who will bend over the moment the Russians take aim. We saw what happened when the Turks downed a Russian jet, most of NATO swung off Russia's testicles. I remember all the air defence systems being removed by NATO allies.

The truth is Turkey is a powerful ally to have, just ask the syrian rebels, or the libyan government or aliyev of Azerbaijan. A serious nation with serious balls to fight wars even when most of the world is against him.

The inevitable truth is that Turkey is most likely going to go nuclear, its the only way she can protect herself from the west and east alike.

 

[Ryder]

Literally an entire group of people are terrorists, so they deserve to be massacred wholesale? Are you seriously advocating genocide?

So, you're suggesting that the only way they could survive long term without constant help from the US or EU is to help them become a second Israel? Turn them into a country that is militarily strong enough to defend themselves and deter further genocide attempts? Sure sounds like people like you are part of the problem and make it worse with your attitude.

And please, at this point Turkey is acting less like a NATO ally than even Saudi Arabia or Indonesia or something is. And those countries aren't even NATO members.

What NATO ally will arm themselves with Russian weaponry when it could risk the giving Russia the secrets of a weapon system that will be the ace card a lot of other NATO members will use in the future?

What NATO ally gets more angry that France becomes a bit harsher to extremist elements of islam in their own country (not islam as a whole mind you) than the fact that citizens of their fellow NATO ally just got murdered by extremist islamic terrorists (which also means that technically a fellow NATO country was under attack by terrorism)?

From the perspective of a lot of EU countries (which constitutes a huge chunk of NATO) Turkey hasn't really been acting like an ally under Erdogan. Ally in name only.

Call it what it is: populism. Trump is specifically targeting the emotions of these people, promising them the world and after 4 years delivered nothing.

The Wall? Basically renovating the old border fence with some miles added in areas where it is unnecessary due to local geography.

Tough on China? Trade War was a bust, hurts other countries in the region instead. China is still building military bases on the islands and corals that they illegaly claimed in the South China Sea.

North Korea? All he achieved was giving Kim Jong Un some legitimacy and getting totally played by Kim. NK is still building nuclear missiles. Heck, he almost caused a nuclear war with NK because he got mad with Kim.

Iran? Almost caused another war by killing the top general via drone strike. Fucked up the attempt to significantly slow down and potentially stop Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons by exiting the Iran Deal.

Noone really knows for sure what Biden will do in ME next. But in my humble opinion: he most likely won't reenter to Syria as that would be extremely unpopular and the US has lost its kurdish allies anyway. He will definitely try to get Iran back to the Iran Deal. He will keep some presence in Iraq and Afghanistan as he wouldn't want the US to lose influence there, making the decades of war ultimately for nothing. The US will still be friendly to Israel and Saudi Arabia, business as usual.

The US will instead focus more on containing China in the Asia-Pacific theater instead. Being tough on China is a popular bipartisan issue after all. This would range from getting countries like Indonesia and post-Duterte Philippines on board. US Navy and Poseidons will probably get busy in the South China Sea.

He will also reaffirm US commitment to NATO, soothing the anger of the US' european allies. He will also rejoin the Paris Accord.

Tl;dr He will be too busy trying to fix the damage Trump caused to the US' reputation worldwide I very much doubt he'd have time to start new wars in ME.

Ahh yes since Turkey is not playing by our rules they are not a ally.

I know how Westerners operate their alliances basically have to be their dog once you break the chain you become an enemy number 1.

Since you westerers and europeans love exporting separatism to other countries then start giving independance to your own backyard like Catalonia, Scotland, Texas, Venice, Bavaria, Waloonia, Flanders what not.

If you love the Pkk/ypg so much then please feel free to get them into your countries. Turkey will never surrender land or tolerate a terror state in their backyard ran by marxist gangs.

 

[TR_123456]

Literally an entire group of people are terrorists, so they deserve to be massacred wholesale? Are you seriously advocating genocide?

So, you're suggesting that the only way they could survive long term without constant help from the US or EU is to help them become a second Israel? Turn them into a country that is militarily strong enough to defend themselves and deter further genocide attempts? Sure sounds like people like you are part of the problem and make it worse with your attitude.

And please, at this point Turkey is acting less like a NATO ally than even Saudi Arabia or Indonesia or something is. And those countries aren't even NATO members.

What NATO ally will arm themselves with Russian weaponry when it could risk the giving Russia the secrets of a weapon system that will be the ace card a lot of other NATO members will use in the future?

What NATO ally gets more angry that France becomes a bit harsher to extremist elements of islam in their own country (not islam as a whole mind you) than the fact that citizens of their fellow NATO ally just got murdered by extremist islamic terrorists (which also means that technically a fellow NATO country was under attack by terrorism)?

From the perspective of a lot of EU countries (which constitutes a huge chunk of NATO) Turkey hasn't really been acting like an ally under Erdogan. Ally in name only.

Almost man,almost.
Im sure you know that 20 milyon of the ''Literally an entire group of people'' lives in my country right?
And 90% of them have no affiliation with that ''entire group of people'',that you knew to,right?
If you didnt which i doubt(living in Germany) after such posts,i suggest you do some research first.
Btw,didnt see you on the TFX thread or the Engines thread,how come?

 

[GoatsMilk]

In general the west takes a prejudiced and at times completely racist approach towards Turks. A separatist marxist terrorist organisation is being armed and trained on Turkeys doorstep, while the western media owned by a few mega corporations are working day and night to legitimise this separatist agenda. Which will only bring further instability, war, death and destruction.

While this is happening the Anglo-Saxon dominated west expects Turkey to say "thankyou" and bend over. Its not going to happen, the west and east may one day unite as they have done so many times in the past to attack the Turks. But until you attempt an invasion of Turkey and successfully occupy the land as you have done to so many others, Turkey will continue to resist regional agendas against her.

The great irony of the Turkish expansionist policy, its all come about as a defensive reactionary movement to imperial games against Turkey. Turkey is only in Syria and Iraq because of western pkk support for a separatist movement. The only reason they are in Libya is because of greek attempts to deny Turkey her maritime rights. One of the main reasons Turkey has and will continue to support Azerbaijan is because of armenian territorial demands on Turkish land, which the west also supports.

This is why i say its inevitable that Turkey will go nuclear. As Turkey expands and grows in power and status the antagonises will find more reason to unite and at that point Turkey will need more then just conventional power to hold off the enemies.

If Turkey turns into a new empire, it will not be because of her own desire to do so, it will be due to incremental reaction to enemy designs against Turkey. You want a peaceful passive Turkey, don't attack her or her sovereignty. You want to face a new Ottoman empire keep attacking and provoking her.

 

[Ryder]

Almost man,almost.
Im sure you know that 20 milyon of the ''Literally an entire group of people'' lives in my country right?
And 90% of them have no affiliation with that ''entire group of people'',that you knew to,right?
If you didnt which i doubt(living in Germany) after such posts,i suggest you do some research first.

Know these Germans and their mentality.

All of our soldiers, teachers and our cities getting blown up is deserved because to them we are "genociding" Kurds.

In Germany, Pkk literally has free rein to do whatever they want. Dont forget the Germans who disguise themselves as tourists to Turkey only to join pkk.

 

[Melkor]

Sorry but this is utter garbage and misleading!

Its pure nonsense.

s400 was brought as a reaction to NATO arming communist terrorists along Turkeys borders. If this continues to happen Turkey will naturally do more business with Russia where it makes sense, however...

Name one other nation outside the US that has fought against the Russians in 3 theatres this year alone? Syria, Libya, and Azerbaijan.

France however sides with Russia against Turkey in both Libya and Azerbaijan.

The reality is Turkey has done more to combat Russia then the whole of NATO bar the USA.

Most of NATO is filled with cowardly nations who will bend over the moment the Russians take aim. We saw what happened when the Turks downed a Russian jet, most of NATO swung off Russia's testicles. I remember all the air defence systems being removed by NATO allies.

The truth is Turkey is a powerful ally to have, just ask the syrian rebels, or the libyan government or aliyev of Azerbaijan. A serious nation with serious balls to fight wars even when most of the world is against him.

The inevitable truth is that Turkey is most likely going to go nuclear, its the only way she can protect herself from the west and east alike.

Yes this whole Tayyip is the leader of the radical islamists who threaten to bring an apocalypse upon all non-Muslims if the west doesn’t prop up the unshaven she-Kurds of north Syria is getting boring and tiring. Lefties and Rightwing, Ruskies and Yanks - they are all the same pile of excrement when it comes to spreading this type of misinformation around the last decade or so.

 

[Ryder]

Yes this whole Tayyip is the leader of the radical islamists who threaten to bring an apocalypse upon all non-Muslims if the west doesn’t prop up the unshaven she-Kurds of north Syria is getting boring and tiring. Lefties and Rightwing, Ruskies and Yanks - they are all the same pile of excrement when it comes to spreading this type of misinformation around the last decade or so.

Their hate of the Turks is what unites them.

Dont forget what happened to Ozil. Both left wingers and right wingers were calling him racial slurs.

Burning of a turkish family by neo nazis and the christchurch massacre in 2019. Western media still fails to point it or even mention it which is anti Turkism or Turcophobia.

Anti Turkism played the biggest role in the christchurch massacre which was left out. The terrorist was obessed with the Turks.

 

[Sycarion]

Sorry but this is misleading and typical of a “We westerners matter more” attitude. You gave our Bosnian friend a pretty serious lecture about better understanding US left v right. I suggest you do the same when it comes to Western treatment of Turkey and get off your high horse.

What treatment? A very much deserved distrust and dislike of Erdogan because of his own actions and policies? You mean europeans have to tolerate him and his abysmal human rights record, the fake coup attempt, his current untrustworthy buddy-buddy attitude with Putin, and his rhetoric post the beheading attack in Paris?

In the past, Turkey was very much liked and respected in Europe. Heck, it was very close to be allowed to fully join the EU. Until Erdogan went off the rails. You can't expect the EU to give Erdogan a free pass just because he is the leader of Turkey. Respect is for those who deserve it, not those who demand it.

 

[Sycarion]

Its pure nonsense.

s400 was brought as a reaction to NATO arming communist terrorists along Turkeys borders. If this continues to happen Turkey will naturally do more business with Russia where it makes sense, however...

Name one other nation outside the US that has fought against the Russians in 3 theatres this year alone? Syria, Libya, and Azerbaijan.

France however sides with Russia against Turkey in both Libya and Azerbaijan.

The reality is Turkey has done more to combat Russia then the whole of NATO bar the USA.

Most of NATO is filled with cowardly nations who will bend over the moment the Russians take aim. We saw what happened when the Turks downed a Russian jet, most of NATO swung off Russia's testicles. I remember all the air defence systems being removed by NATO allies.

The truth is Turkey is a powerful ally to have, just ask the syrian rebels, or the libyan government or aliyev of Azerbaijan. A serious nation with serious balls to fight wars even when most of the world is against him.

The inevitable truth is that Turkey is most likely going to go nuclear, its the only way she can protect herself from the west and east alike.

Let's be honest, you helped "fight the Russians" in Syria because you have a shared interest in wiping out the "kurdish terrorists". The moment Trump gave you a chance, you took it and nothing more happened.

In Azerbaijan of course France will side with Russia against Turkey and Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan invaded the the area with specific intent of wiping out the Armenian population in the area. Literally shooting ballistic missiles at civilian settlements. Do you HONESTLY expect France, a member of the European Union, to support a literal genocide effort?

There is a difference between being cowardly, and trying to maintain peace. The EU is filled with countries that have had their fill for war, some of the most destructive wars in human history, including World War 2. They are tired of war. But don't mistake trying to keep the peace as cowardice. If Russia were to hypothetically go nuts and invade, ALL EU member states will go fight alongside NATO. We just don't want unnecessary wars wasting our time and money. Unlike Turkey apparently.

Is Turkey powerful? Yeah. But is it acting like a power for good right now? From the EU perspective, not at all.

 

[Sycarion]

Almost man,almost.
Im sure you know that 20 milyon of the ''Literally an entire group of people'' lives in my country right?
And 90% of them have no affiliation with that ''entire group of people'',that you knew to,right?
If you didnt which i doubt(living in Germany) after such posts,i suggest you do some research first.
Btw,didnt see you on the TFX thread or the Engines thread,how come?

So? Does that mean Kurds that live outside of Turkey deserve to be massacred wholesale like the guy I replied to said?

Why am I not on those threads? Simple, I'm from Indonesia and I live in Germany. So I have no interest of going to those threads. I go to the US thread because I see it as something that is important and of interest for me because like it or not, the US affects the lives of people on every country.

 

[Sycarion]

Know these Germans and their mentality.

All of our soldiers, teachers and our cities getting blown up is deserved because to them we are "genociding" Kurds.

In Germany, Pkk literally has free rein to do whatever they want. Dont forget the Germans who disguise themselves as tourists to Turkey only to join pkk.

Probably check your sources:

Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)

In Germany, the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) has been subject to a ban imposed on its activities since 1993. It has about 14,500 adherents. The organisation aims at gaining more political and cultural autonomy for the Kurdish people in their countries of origin, particularly in Turkey.

www.verfassungsschutz.de

Germany bans Kurdish PKK publishing houses – DW – 02/12/2019

The German Interior Ministry said earnings from the two publishing houses went solely to the Kurdish Workers' Party. The group is considered a terrorist organization by Turkey and the EU and is banned in Germany.

www.dw.com

PKK is heavily monitored in Germany by the german intelligence service. Officially they are banned in Germany. They adherents are free to do peaceful stuff, just like turks are free to do peaceful stuff in Germany. Doesn't mean the are free to do whatever they want. Germany just doesn't imprison people left and right just because they might be affiliated with PKK or any other banned organizations. Don't spread lies, thanks.

 

[Ryder]

Let's be honest, you helped "fight the Russians" in Syria because you have a shared interest in wiping out the "kurdish terrorists". The moment Trump gave you a chance, you took it and nothing more happened.

In Azerbaijan of course France will side with Russia against Turkey and Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan invaded the the area with specific intent of wiping out the Armenian population in the area. Literally shooting ballistic missiles at civilian settlements. Do you HONESTLY expect France, a member of the European Union, to support a literal genocide effort?

There is a difference between being cowardly, and trying to maintain peace. The EU is filled with countries that have had their fill for war, some of the most destructive wars in human history, including World War 2. They are tired of war. But don't mistake trying to keep the peace as cowardice. If Russia were to hypothetically go nuts and invade, ALL EU member states will go fight alongside NATO. We just don't want unnecessary wars wasting our time and money. Unlike Turkey apparently.

Is Turkey powerful? Yeah. But is it acting like a power for good right now? From the EU perspective, not at all.

Notice how you keep on saying genocide

Karabag is internationally recognised as part of Azerbaijan get a clue.

Ahh yes we are so intent on wiping out the kurds when there are more Kurds in Turkey then Syria and Iraq combined and there are more Kurds in Istanbul than Syria

 

[Sycarion]

Their hate of the Turks is what unites them.

Dont forget what happened to Ozil. Both left wingers and right wingers were calling him racial slurs.

Burning of a turkish family by neo nazis and the christchurch massacre in 2019. Western media still fails to point it or even mention it which is anti Turkism or Turcophobia.

Anti Turkism played the biggest role in the christchurch massacre which was left out. The terrorist was obessed with the Turks.

So, what, now you are equaling neo-nazis to germans or something? Sounds like another racist remark to me, where are the mods?

Özil got backlash because he, as a german national player, took a picture with one of the most disliked world leaders in Germany, in the lead up to Turkey's General Election, which is seen as an endorsement for Erdogan. He then accused DFB and national team members for racism then voluntarily retired from the national team. Even in this case the dislike from the german public was specifically targeted to Erdogan and not turkish people in general.

And why are you even trying to connect the christchurch terrorist to this?

You act like you're victims but you and Melkor are literally spewing hateful comments against "non-muslims" over and over.

 

[Ryder]

Probably check your sources:

Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK)

In Germany, the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) has been subject to a ban imposed on its activities since 1993. It has about 14,500 adherents. The organisation aims at gaining more political and cultural autonomy for the Kurdish people in their countries of origin, particularly in Turkey.

www.verfassungsschutz.de

Germany bans Kurdish PKK publishing houses – DW – 02/12/2019

The German Interior Ministry said earnings from the two publishing houses went solely to the Kurdish Workers' Party. The group is considered a terrorist organization by Turkey and the EU and is banned in Germany.

www.dw.com

PKK is heavily monitored in Germany by the german intelligence service. Officially they are banned in Germany. They adherents are free to do peaceful stuff, just like turks are free to do peaceful stuff in Germany. Doesn't mean the are free to do whatever they want. Germany just doesn't imprison people left and right just because they might be affiliated with PKK or any other banned organizations. Don't spread lies, thanks.

How would you feel if some Muslims were protesting and waving isis flags while shouting isis slogans in Germany.

Germany tolerates the pkk they allow them to protest, shout slogans of death while waving flags of a terrorist aka ocalan.

Imagine if al baghadadi or bin ladens images were flown by some so called Muslims.